Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) Does Not Have Caste System but Upper Caste Muslims (Ashraafs) Have Put It There To Maintain Their Dominance in Society: Pasmanda Activist Faiyaz Ahmad Fyzie
By
Arshad Alam, New Age Islam
25 July
2022
NAI
Interview: Pasmanda Activist Faiyaz Ahmad Fyzie
Recently,
the prime minister referred to taking care special care of weaker sections
within all religious minorities. Low caste Muslim groups, who call themselves
as Pasmanda Muslims, came up for a special mention by the prime minister on at
least three occasions since the BJP government came to power. NewAgeIslam.com
sat down with Faiyaz Ahmad Fyzie, a doctor by profession and a Pasmanda Muslim
activist. Over the years, he is seen on various media platforms highlighting
the plight of low caste Muslims. In the process, he has ruffled many feathers,
and has been accused of pandering to the Hindu right wing. In this interview,
he unravels his journey to being an anti-caste activist, and tells us how a
radical turn-around of Muslim politics can only come about by questioning the
upper caste Muslim (Ashraaf) narrative.
Pasmanda Activist Faiyaz Ahmad Fyzie
------
Q. Could you tell us something yourself?
FF: Certainly. I come from a family of
freedom fighters in Ballia, Uttar Pradesh. My grandfather was a freedom fighter
and congressman. He fought against Britishers under the leadership of Chitu
Pandey. My father was a teacher in an intermediate college and ideologically he
was a nationalist of socialist-communist bent of mind. My mother is from
Kolkata and she learned Hindi from my father to teach us Hindi. In Ballia, we
lived in the Bhrigu Ashram area and I literally grew up playing in the
courtyard of this Ashram. I was enrolled in a madrasa for my primary education,
then moved to govt primary school in Ballia. After that, father took us to his
working place i.e. Yusufpur-Mohammadabad, a town in Ghazipur district where I
completed my schooling and then moved to Ballia for my graduation. Eventually,
I came to Prayagraj (Allahabad) to study Unani medicine. While in Allahabad, I
joined the Tabligh Jamat actively which I later left after I found that they as
casteist as any other Muslim organization. I completed my MD (Unani) from
Vijayawada, Andhra Pradesh. I am now a doctor. There were religious people in
my extended family, although my father was quite liberal. I describe myself as
a nationalist with a religious bent of mind because this is what I inherited
from my family. Since beginning I had the orientation of being a meaningful
member of society which I learnt from my father. He was devoted to the cause of
education of the downtrodden, especially girls.
Q. How
did you come to be associated with the Pasmanda movement?
FF: I got
actively involved in the Pasmanda movement since 2012. However, I was aware of
the movement since my childhood. When I came to Allahabad to study medicine, I
got in touch with Ulama and used to spend time in madrasas. Within the four
walls of these institution, I saw the practice of caste and how the system got
perpetuated. Words like Kamin and Razil were frequently used to refer to low
caste Muslims. It was in Allahabad that I read Masud Alam Falahi’s book on
caste system amongst Muslims ((Hindustan
Mein Zaat Paat aur Musalmaan) and how
it has been perpetuated for generations. When I went to Hyderabad for my higher
studies, I met Masud Falahi personally and had a series of discussions on caste
with him. This propelled me write on the issue. Eventually, I got a chance to
teach at a Unani College in Azamgarh and here I came in contact with Waqar
Ahmad Hawari from the Pasmanda Muslim Mahaz. I have been actively associated
with the movement since then.
Q. Could
you give a brief history and present overview of the movement?
FF: The
movement has its roots in the pre-Independence times when Asim Bihari organized
low caste Muslims and challenged the narrative of upper caste led Muslim
League. But I trace it even earlier and argue that possibly the great medieval
poet Kabir was also trying to do the same thing: exposing caste discrimination.
Haji Shariatullah of Bengal also strived against it during the 19th century.
During 1978, Shabbir Ansari of Maharashtra took this work forward and worked
closely with the Hindu OBC organizations to implement the Mandal Commission
The next
phase of the movement starts after Mandal. This is the time when leaders like
Dr Aijaz Ali and Ali Anwar started to organize low caste Muslims for the
objective of political representation. The word Pasmanda was coined during this
phase by Abdur Rauf Ansari under the leadership of Ali Anwar. The movement gave
electoral benefits to the ruling JD(U) in Bihar as it was sensitive to the
demands made by Pasmanda leaders. Today there are dozens of organizations which
are fighting for the rights of the oppressed within Muslims. Not all of them
call themselves as Pasmanda but essentially, they are all striving for the same
cause. The largest front though is led by Waqar Ahmad, who is the General
Secretary of All India Pasmanda Muslim Mahaz and is based in Lucknow. Ali Anwar
is the leader of another front but whose strength is considerably diminished
over the years. Many Pasmanda leaders are upset with him for the reason that
when he was in the Rajya Sabha, he did not try to do the best for organization
and society. The real Mahaz is the one led by Waqar Ahmad and has chapters in
different states of India.
Q. People generally say that equality is the
core message of Islam and hence there is no caste system in Islam. What do you
have to say?
FF: How can
you say that Islam does not promote casteism? There are schools of Islamic
jurisprudence (Fiqh), but almost all of them uphold casteism. Shehnai
player Ustad Bismillah Khan, the recipient of the highest civilian honour, the
Bharat Ratn, could never dream of marrying his son to an upper caste Muslim
girl as he was a low caste Muslim. It is my contention that the Islam of
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) does not have caste system but Ashraafs (upper
caste Muslims) have put it there to maintain their dominance in society. So,
the Islam of today validates racism and casteism theoretically as well as
practically. Men like Ashraf Ali Thanwi have institutionalized casteism by
justifying it in their books. We should know that there are anti-caste Hadith
as well as pro-caste Hadith. The Ashraaf use them depending on the
situation and from a case-to-case basis. They have never denounced caste and
race which is there in our religious literature. For example, it is the stated
position of all law schools that the Caliph can only be from Quraish (Saiyad &
Shaikh), which is patently racist. In early Islamic history, Saad ibn Ubadah
could not become the first caliph simply because he was an Ansar and not a
Quraish. Shia theology is equally or perhaps more supportive of these
discriminatory practices. They think that only members of the Prophet (the Banu
Hashim) have the right to become Imam (Caliph). So, what I am saying is that
since its early days, Islam has upheld the values and caste. And the situation
has continued till the present day. In Jordan, the Hashmis are still ruling
because they claim to be from Banu Hashim, the tribe to which the Prophet
belonged. The name of the country is Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, which is
truly a racist name. In Yemen, we find that there are a group of people known
as the al-Akhdam who are at the bottom of the social hierarchy despite being
Muslims. One reason why Iran (governed by Syeds) hates Saudi Arabia is that the
rulers in the latter country are Bedouins, considered very low on social
hierarchy. Historically, this problem has not been addressed because it serves
the interest of the elite worldwide and the Ashraaf in India. If you
look at the apex religious body of Muslims in India, the AIMPLB, you will not
find a single Pasmanda. The same is the case with Sufi circles where the Syed
caste have monopolized this form of religiosity. Even after the Last Sermon of
the Prophet, which erased distinctions of caste and race, these divisions are
persisting.
Q. Can
you give us some examples of caste-based discrimination within Indian Muslims?
FF: When I
used to teach in Azamgarh, there was a peon whose name of Islam. He was very
good at singing Naath (elegy sung in the praise of Prophet Muhammad). But he
always used to sit on the floor as he was from the Mehtar/Halalkhor caste. This
person used to give Azan also but after that, I observed that he used to go to
the last row and offer his prayers. The fear of the dominant Muslim caste in
Azamgarh, the Rautara, is such that low caste Muslims like Islam could never show
the courage to pray in the first row as they considered him unclean and impure
due to his lower caste. I discovered that his caste fellows were not even
allowed to do ablution inside the mosque. They were told to do Wuzu in their
homes and then come to the mosque. On days like Eid and Bakrid, I could see
members of Nat caste outside the mosque but never inside. No one called them to
their homes on Eid, although Hindu upper castes were called. I have seen many
such instances of caste discrimination within the Muslim society. My own
brother was given less marks by his upper caste teachers.
Q. Do the Pasmanda Muslims face any sort of
discrimination at the cultural level?
FF:
Certainly, they do. The indigenous Pasmanda are truly a diverse community.
That’s why there is very little cultural similarity between a Pasmanda from
Karnataka and a Pasmanda from Bihar. They are very different in terms of
matters of language, dress, food habits and local rituals. It is the Ashraaf
which tries to impose unity through Urdu and other symbols. But what is more
worrisome is that they call us “Hindu” simply because we follow our own social
and cultural tradition. Our women wear Sarees, at places they sport Sindoor
and follow birth, marriage and death rituals which are common with local Hindu
communities. Our religion is different but why should our culture be different?
The Ashraaf want us to give up these traditions in the name of imposing so
called “Islamic practices” through various religious movements like the Tabligh
Jamat, Dawat e Islami and Jamat e Islami. This demonstrates the Hindu hatred of
Ashraaf who do not want to call any of these cultural practices as their
own. Due to the fact that Pasmandas are uneducated, they follow the Ulama
blindly and this is leading to the breakdown of social and religious solidarity
between indigenous Pasmandas and fellow Hindus.
Q. Recently,
the prime minister said that special attention should be paid to the weaker
sections within religious minorities. How have the people received it?
FF: This is
not the first time that our prime minister has said so. He has used the
Pasmanda on earlier occasion but this time he exhorted his party workers to
care about the welfare of weaker sections in all religious minorities. The
reaction in the Muslim Pasmanda society is one of elation. They are very
positive about the statement of the prime minister. However, there are some who
are criticizing the statement. I call them the so-called Secular Liberal
Ambedkarite faction who are being childish in arguing that if the prime
minister is so sympathetic to the Pasmanda question, he should do something
about Article 341 [This article debars Muslims and Christians from getting
recognized as Scheduled Castes]. The Ashraaf intellectuals are also
criticizing the prime minister on similar lines. Recognition of Dalit Muslims
has been one of our agendas, but there are other issues also that need our
attention. For example, we haven’t been able to get Muslim communities listed
as Other Backward Classes despite this lying within the ambit of extant law. In
many states, there are Muslim communities who should ideally be within the
ambit of Scheduled Tribes but are not listed as such. But the so-called Secular
Liberal, Ambedkarites and Ashraaf Muslims have not raised this issue
along with other important issues related to social justice within Muslim
community. Instead, they want to focus on Article 341 so that the Pasmanda
movement gets into a fight with Hindu Dalits. Focusing exclusively on this
issue would create a Hindu Muslim binary which will polarize society further.
And this is what the Ashraaf want so that the image of the Pasmanda
movement gets tarnished. We will never fall in their trap.
Q. Ali Anwar, one of the leaders of the
movement has reacted negatively to PM’s statement and wrote a scathing letter.
Amongst other things, he has called it as a move to divide the Muslim
community. As a Pasmanda activist, how do you see this statement?
FF: The
statement has really hurt many in the Pasmanda movement fraternity. Is talking
about social justice within Muslims an attempt to divide Muslims? It is strange
that he would talk like this as he himself has been facing similar accusation
since the time of organizing Pasmanda Mahaz. In his letter to PM, at one place
he writes that he is making these demands “as a Muslim”. The Pasmanda movement
has always privileged caste over religious identity, something which seems to
be reversed inn this letter. I am astonished as to why Ali Anwar is speaking
the language of Ashraaf. I know the Ali Anwar who wrote Masawat ki Jung
(Struggle for Equality) and want to remember him like that. Why should we be
suspicious about an elected prime minister? This is a golden opportunity for
Pasmanda Muslims to start a process of deliberation. That’s why the Mahaz has
welcomed the statement and did a press conference in Lucknow appreciating the
gesture of the prime minister.
Q. It is true that in instances of lynching,
it is the Pasmanda Muslim who has suffered. The government has done very little
to prevent such attacks. What are your views on this?
FF: I would
like to point out that while the foreign Ashraaf has all the advantages
of being a Muslim in this country, the indigenous Pasmanda bears all the
disadvantages of this identity. Most of the victims of mob lynching are
Pasmandas. And that’s why it is of utmost importance that the recent overtures
made by the prime minister should be taken with utter seriousness. We are
confronted with an unprecedented situation where those who have benefitted from
Muslims votes don’t want to even talk about them. Where is Akhilesh Yadav? Why
has he been silent on lynching of low caste Muslims and demolition of their
houses? And why questions are not being asked about his silence? Only the
ruling party can solve our problems and that’s why we need to appreciate what
the prime minister has done. I would also like to add that Pasmandas face daily
oppression at the hands of Ashraaf. Why does no one talk about that? Mob
lynching is reprehensible but the more frequent lynching is the silencing of
85% of Muslim population and the denial of their rights which is being done by
the Ashraafs.
Q. The Pasmanda movement was earlier ideologically
opposed to Islamism as well as Hindutva. There is a growing perception that
sections of the movement want to ally with Hindutva. How do you see this
development?
FF: We are
opposed to all forms of communalism. But it is my firm conviction that since we
are born with a Muslim identity, our first responsibility should be to fight
against Muslim communalism. I also believe that Hindu communalism is the result
of Muslim communalism and when we defeat the latter, Hindu communalism will
have nothing to feed on. There are enough Hindus fighting against Hindu
communalism but the same cannot be said about Muslims. Since the days of Kabir,
it is only the Pasmanda which is fighting against Muslim communalism. And why
is it that we do not question Arshad Madani, President of Jamiat ul Ulama when
he meets the head of the RSS? Is it because he is Ashraaf and whatever
they do is justifiable? If the same thing is being done by Pasmanda, then it
automatically becomes anti-Muslim? Whenever we have tried to raise these
issues, Ashraaf have cried Islamophobia. It is our firm conviction that
only the indigenous Pasmanda can uphold diversity and pluralism as they have
practiced these concepts through centuries of living together with Hindus as
they share the same roots. The Ashraaf are by definition anti-diversity
and that’s why they want to impose a uniform worldview on all Muslims.
Q. You have been personally accused of being
soft on Hindutva. Would you like to clarify?
FF:
Certainly, I would like to clarify. They accuse me of being an RSS agent
because I go to so called-right-wing Hindu channels. But what they won’t tell
you is that they have never called me to their channels. The so-called Left
liberals, the Ambedkarites and the Ashraafs, with one or two exceptions,
have made a conscious decision not to call me on their channels. I say please
call me, debate with me. I will say exactly the same thing that I say on the
so-called-right wing Hindu channels. But I know they will never call me as they
do not want an inconvenient Pasmanda voice, the voice of social justice in
Muslim society, which can upset their narrative. The Pasmanda has to tell its
story to a wider audience. It is a sorrowful story of deceit and being let down
by the Ashraaf. Anyone who gives me a platform, I will go and tell my
story of how the Ashraaf have treated us. I am not in a position to
choose, neither do I have the luxury of being politically correct. These
Hindutva channels gave me a platform so I went there. And thanks to them, there
is much more awareness of the plight of Pasmanda Muslims as compared to
earlier. I have exposed their much-kept secret and I will continue to do
so.
----
A
regular contributor to NewAgeIslam.com, Arshad Alam is a writer and researcher
on Islam and Muslims in South Asia.
URL: https://newageislam.com/interview/prophet-caste-upper-ashraafs-faiyaz-ahmad-fyzie/d/127563
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