By Asghar Ali Engineer
(Islam and Modern Age, October 2010)
For last fourteen hundred years we have heard a slogan one Allah, one Prophet and one Qur’an and so all Muslims should unite and constitute one ummah. Also, interestingly enough our ulama narrate a hadith from Prophet (PBUH) that “my ummah will be divided into 72 sects and only one of them will be naji i.e. will achieve liberation and others will be doomed”. Thus we ourselves contradict ourselves. On one hand, we desire unity and then go on dividing the ummah in 72 sects conflicting with each other.
And fact is that Baghdadi by the end of second century hijrah wrote a book AlFarq Bayn al-Firaq (Difference between Different Sects) and gives more description of more than 100 sects among Muslims by that time. In fact we should understand that emotional slogans will never bring unity and more we raise such slogans, more we will stand divided. In fact differences among Muslims–political, social, economic and cultural began among Muslims not too long after the death of the Prophet (PBUH).
The conquests, if anything, made situation much more complex bringing in more power wealth and foreign influences which sharpened divisions though it took some time for sects to formalize and differences assume theological structure. In order to understand and analyze these differences, we have to go much beyond theology and try to understand much deeper causes.
First of all we must understand that the message of Islam brought about a fundamental change in the then Arab society of much deeper nature than we realize. It completely changed religious, moral, social and political structures and the Arab society could never be the same again. Yet the change was so rapid that Arabs could hardly absorb it. What was more tragic that the Prophet (PBUH) also departed from the scene who was a supreme guide who was listened to reverentially by all Muslims?
Muslims for various reasons turned outward rather than inward to consolidate the gains of deeper Islamic revolution which could have been more beneficial to the nascent Muslim society. The most fundamental message of the Qur’an was moral and to bring in equality and justice in the society. The Qur’an repeatedly emphasizes importance of ‘amal salih along with iman (faith or belief in Allah, His prophets and the Prophet, day of judgment and accountability
Secondly the Qur’an gave a new vision of a just and egalitarian society with due emphasis on human dignity and freedom of conscience. It also found a new middle path in which both ummah and individual was important with freedom of conscience which until then was unknown in the Arab society. The Arabs were highly tradition bound and deeply immersed in their respective tribal cultures.
Islam tried to usher in new culture which was deeply humane and universal rather than tribal. But it was not easy to liberate oneself from pre-Islamic traditions which Muslims themselves called culture of jahiliyyah i.e. culture of period of ignorance. Yet its influence was so deep that mere acceptance of Islam could not bring in deep transformation which was in need for total social transformation.
The Qur’an had given Arabic language a new diction both moral and literary at which great Arab creative poets and others wondered and found themselves unable to match. But this diction was not only full of creative beauty but also morally high as the Qur’anic vision was to create a new society and a new human being literally what Qur’an calls mu’min a man of faith working for new vision as Iqbal put it mu’min hai to naya jahan paida karr (if you are a man of faith create new world and don’t live in the old world).
This new human being of faith not only would have accepted all the Qur’anic values of unity, human dignity, freedom of conscience, diversity, truth, compassion, equality, justice and great courage. But except a few companions of the Prophet (PBUH) there was no one dedicated himself or herself to cultivate this new culture and sustain this new Islamic vision.
What were worse the conquests further damaged this process as new alien values, mostly feudal and authoritarian in nature further damaged the whole process. Now emphasis was more on share state power and newly acquired wealth and splendour than fulfill the Qur’anic moral vision. The process of coming into being view visionary society received serious setback. The Islamic society began to be polarized between those who were engaged in worldly pursuits and squabbling for power and those who engaged themselves in only matters spiritual and almost reduced themselves as recluses.
One more setback came with coming into existence the Umayyad Empire which was highly repressive in nature and authoritarian and build more on the Roman model than inspired by Islamic values and vision. The Umayyads, deeply immersed as they were, in pre-Islamic jahiliyyah culture and tried to revive pre -Islamic culture with emphasis on its poetry. Kitab al-Ghina was written based on pre-Islamic jahiliyyah poetry and became immensely popular.
This jahilliyah culture’s foundational values were simply worldly pleasure completely devoid of high moral values. One can argue well what was wrong with it, after all it was rich Arab heritage and its revival after all was a legitimate act. This argument has of course some validity. After all a powerful Arab empire had come into existence and it needed its own national cultural heritage to be proud of and to trace its own national and tribal roots.
But as far as our present concern of Islamic society we are looking at it from altogether another perspective. What was tragic in this revival was revival of pre-Islamic culture only strengthened tendency to seek pleasure and power and enjoy life irrespective of what kind of society Islam wanted to build up. Secondly, and more damaging was that now this pre-Islamic language and diction became fashionable and even Qur’anic words and their meanings were sought to be understood in the light of how they were used in pre-Islamic poetry.
In fact Qur’an had created a new language rich in its own meaning. Its diction was moral and revolutionary to infuse new values in building a new society and the Qur’an used that new diction for this purpose. Now tragically pre-Islamic poetry became the basis of understanding Qur’an and its meaning. I think it was a great calamity that pre-Islamic poetry constituted the very basis of understanding Qur’an’s meaning. To some extent it was perhaps inevitable but without being conscious of its consequences it cause serious damage to the vision Qur’an was aiming at.
Third thing was the nature of theological debates which began to rage among theologians when the very moral foundation of Islamic revolution began to be weakened. Theological debates whether human being is free agent or divinely determined became supreme in which the ruling class had very high stakes. If human person is divinely determined then Umayyad regime is also divines willed and its oppressive and exploitative base cannot be challenged. After all it is divinely willed.
As we have pointed out Qur’an lays emphasis on freedom of conscience as much as even Shaytan was granted freedom and allowed to choose not to bow before Adam. Now human person was sought to be seen as mere toy destined to act as per divine will. Theologians were polarized according to their political inclinations. Those who did not want to challenge Umayyad power sought refuge in this theological formulation and refrained from political activism and some even sought to benefit from being part of ruling classes.
This is not to say that there were no ulama of great courage and moral integrity who refused to become part of ruling structure and engaged themselves in cultivating and promoting Islamic values and vision. But such were very few and far in between.
Fourthly, the Abbasids, in order to challenge Umayyad power launched an underground movement with the help of Iranian discontents who were feeling marginalised with Arab supremacy in the political as well as cultural areas. They had embraced Islam but never became part of political and cultural processes. The Persians readily agreed to support the Abbasids who promised them substantial part in the political process and Abu Muslim Khorasani organized military and mass support in favour of Abbasids.
The Persians had their own proud cultural and political heritage and they looked upon Arabs with sheer contempt as uncouth and uncultured Bedouins. As soon as Abbasids captured power and Umayyads dethroned, many Persian wives slaughtered their Arab husbands. But this was not to last longer. The Abbasids were after all Arabs and they did not want to share political power, at least substantial part with non-Arabs.
Thus first thing they did was to get rid of Abu Muslim Khorasani who had meticulously built political basis of Abbasid power. But they were shrewd enough to reward Persians for their support in some other way. Many Persian intellectuals were appointed on key bureaucratic posts to give them sense of participation. Though not politically but they became dominant in intellectual and cultural fields.
This also had its own social and moral consequences. Great social and intellectual changes began take place in very approach to Islam. The Mu’tazila movement acquired a new vitality under the Abbasid patronage and controversies like whether the Qur’an is created or uncreated broke out and Muslims were divided never before on such intellectual issues. If the Umayyads encouraged controversy about human determination, Abbasid encouraged the controversy about created-ness or uncreated-ness of Qur’an.
Both controversies, may or may not have philosophical and intellectual importance but helped divert attention from basic political social and economic issues. The theologians debated these issues and were polarized. Also, the Abbasids patronized translations of Greek books on philosophy into Arabic as well as from Persian and Indian sources and Biat al-Hikmah (the House of Wisdom) became centre of great intellectual ferment and enlightenment and Arabs began to lead in science, mathematics and technology and several other sciences.
It was indeed a great intellectual contribution to the world by Arab and non-Arab Muslim thinkers, philosophers and intellectuals, mostly Persians. By all means it was unparalleled intellectual ferment. But it also resulted in further division in the ummah and new sects were born, especially Ismai’lis and Qaramia, also known as batinis i.e. those who believed in interpreting the Qur’an with hidden meaning which were real meanings and the zahiri apparent meanings were meant only for masses, not for initiated.
The Isma’ilis were further subdivided in several sects and sub-sects. The Qaramitas, a sub-sect of Ismailis, were on the other extreme and believed in suspending practicing zahiri shari’ah as those who followed hidden meaning of Qur’an (also called ta’wil), need not indulge in shari’ah practices. Also, Qaramita’s whole emphasis was on communistic living under a da’is command.
All the members of the sect contributed all their earnings to the da’i who ran common kitchen. Private possession was allowed only in arms like swords and bows etc. The Qaramitas succeeded in establishing their state in Bahrain for thirty years. Nasir Khusrro whose Safarnameh, critical edition edited and published by Zakir Husain in
Germany, has given detailed account of Qaramita’s state in Bahrain and has refuted unfair charges against them like possessing common wives etc. It is interesting to note that some scholars maintain that Mansoor Hallaj who was put to death by Abbasids, also belonged to Qaramita movement and was put to death not really for his slogan of ana’l haq but for conspiring, along with Qaramita, to overthrow Abbasid regime.
Qaramita also became rivals of Fatimids in Egypt and Tahir Qarmati established his regime in Syria when he took away Hajar al-Aswad from Ka’aba and kept it in his possession for thirty years and the Fatimids had to persuade him with great difficulty to release it and they (Fatimids) restored it to Ka’ba and thus relieved the whole Islamic world of great anxiety.
Also, there was sharp polarization in the Sunni Islam. As a reaction to new intellectual trends due to transfer of philosophical treasures of the world to Baghdad which then established itself as greatest intellectual and philosophical centre of the world, brought about sharp reaction to intellectual trends among mainstream theologians. They used the weapon of philosophy and developed what came to be termed as ilma al-kalam i.e. dialectical knowledge.
They began to refute all claims of philosophers through ilm al-kalam. The famous debate between al-Ghazali and Ibn Rushd is well-known. Al-Ghazali wrote his tract Tahafut al-Falasifa (Bewilderment of Philosophers) to which Ibn Rushd replied by counter-tract Tahafut Tahaful al-Falasifa (Bewilderment of Bewilderment of Philosophers). Ash’ari, another theologian took extreme positions on all theological issues and naturally as against philosophers who had limited following among the intellectual elite, theologians like Ash’ari found mass following and established themselves as great theological leaders.
Ghazali himself wrote classic work Ihya’ al-Uloom (Revivification of Knowledge to revive traditional theology). It became a classical ash’arite theological work in Islamic world and is referred to by all traditional scholars. Some scholars maintain that it was after al-Ghazali’s work that all gates of ijtihad were closed in the Islamic world. But this seems to be oversimplified position. There are very complex causes for this. Fall of Baghdad, end of central Abbasid regime what the great historian Toynbee calls universal
Islamic state and development of weak regional states are some among them.
What is to be noted here is that this polarization could have been avoided with some caution to avoid division in Islamic world. The traditional theologians and ulama reacted too sharply to the intellectual and philosophical movement; some philosophers too, on the other hand, went to extremes. And Qaramita, as already discussed, even suspended shari’ah causing alarm among all.
A section of Isma’ilis who later established Fatimid regime first in Western Africa and later in Egypt exercised due caution in creating balance between what was zahiri and batini but their political rivalry with the Abbasids proved no less divisive on theological front too. Unfair accusations were made against them by mainstream theologians. In fact it was Fatimids who persuaded Qaramitas to return hajar al-Aswad back to Ka’ba.
There was another division too: the philosophers and intellectuals tried to grasp truth through intellectual efforts while the Sufis laid stress only on spiritual aspects and experiences. In this the Qur’anic middle path was lost. Qur’an had evolved a unique approach which was very comprehensive. It was approach based on all important components of life – spiritual, intellectual, moral and material.
It invited believers to live in this world, contribute to its material prosperity, reflect deeply on Allah’s creation, enrich spiritual relations with its creator so as never to become arrogant of ones material achievements, to maintain high moral standards to keep order and balance in the world and to constantly learn lessons from the past how people suffered because of their misdeeds. The Qur’anic language was a new contribution of all these aspects.
However, theological debates and efforts to understand Qur’an in the light of pre-Islamic Arabic diction destroyed much of this uniqueness. What was worse many commentators of the Qur’an not only depended on this pre-Islamic usages of Arabic words but also on myths and legends from Judaic and Christian sources which completely destroyed the Qur’anic spirit and Qur’anic commentaries became a mythological labyrinth.
Commentators like Imam Fakhruddin Razi tried to use Aristotelian deductive logic to write commentary on Qur’an. All this went on causing sterile theological debates. More such debates took place more theology became complex and beyond the reach of common Muslims. For jurists Qur’an was more a source of legal wrangling and sterile debates on various sterile issues like whether to raise hands or to do masah this way or that way and so on. Fiqh, instead of becoming a source of high morality became cause of division among Muslims on very petty and ridiculous issues.
Now we have reached a stage wherein sharp divisions have taken place among Muslims through out history. As explained these divisions were political, theological and intellectual and it is very challenging to undo these differences. The present political climate in the Muslim world is further sharpening these differences. That is why one ummah has become an empty slogan. What is worse every effort to unite results in further division.
The Arab worlds itself stand divided along their political interests and then there are Arab and non-Arab divisions. They do not get united even on major political challenges like those from Israel and United States of America. This reality should not be lost sight of. To evolve common strategies one has to be realistic and should not be swayed by any kind of rhetoric.
Muslims tend to be often emotional and more divisive forces work, more insecure they feel and more insecure they feel more emotionally they react. Attacks on Islam have multiplied like never before and it makes Muslims react more emotionally than strategically and intellectually. It requires great maturity and political shrewdness to respond these attacks. Our emotional reactions and street protests, and worse, terroristic and violent response benefits only our enemy and attacks on Islam further sharpen.
We may not be able to overcome our differences resulting in complete unity of ummah but certainly we can work out strategies to reacts un-emotionally and more intellectually so as to project a peaceful and dignified image of Islam. It will greatly enhance respect for Islam and Muslims in the world.
Institute of Islamic Studies, Mumbai. E-mail: firstname.lastname@example.org
What will I do of more knowledge if I go berserk like you? Majority of Muslims stayed in India after partition. The whole of Pakistan and Bangladesh was already a Muslim majority area so most of them stayed there. Only a handful of Muslims in comparison to the total population of Muslims of rest of areas went to Pakistan and Bangladesh. Sorry to expose the depth of your knowledge.
Did non-Muslims show their love of India when they sacked, raped, enslaved, and destroyed many areas of Hindu-Muslim culture?
Your minority theory fails as you are a minority on this forum but you do not exhibit those symptoms that should have come to you being a minority.
People like you create minority syndrome and try to infect others. This disease comes with inferiority complex. When I point out that majority of Muslims decided to stay with India, obviously they stayed by choice and not that Hindus forced them stay.
Yes Hindus did entrap them with their assurance that India need not have divided but for some Muslims and that both communities can live together as they lived for thousands of years. That entrapment is called love. After all they share the same genes.
In 1857 rebellion, while the Mughals were hardly in power, it were Hindu and Muslim uprising together that decided to come under the banner of Mughals to throw away the real plunderers. They were the Hindu soldiers who had assured the old and feeble Bahadur Shah Zafar that together they can pull off. Even today Hindus pay their homage at the grave of Bahadur Shah Zafar.
The example of Muh mein Ram-Ram baghal mein churi applies to you when you say you are disciple of peace loving Lord Buddha and Jesus (peace be upon him).
And thanks for letting me follow my slave masters. I just need not be troubled by you for this. That’s it.
SADAF - I understand that you are rather simple when it comes to knowledge; but did Muslims show their love of India when they split the nation?
Did Muslims show their love of India when they sacked, raped, enslaved, and destroyed many areas of Hindu culture?
You see; Muslims are a minority in India, therefore, a little bit of kitman or maybe a confused identity is bound to exist.
Your Muslim brethren are still killing and persecuting minorities in Pakistan and Bangladesh; and of course Islamic radicalism is growing within India and dawah/jihad/kitman is all part and parcel of Islamization at any cost.
Keep on following your slave masters...........
The not so ‘Holy’ Ghost of Mr. Lee is now perhaps doing the talk. He says you cannot love India, as if he has the miraculous power of knowing what is there in someone’s heart. He cannot know who punctured his inflated self but he can know what is in the heart of others! Great, but he contradicts himself!! He has no choice but to keep beating his chest on a new website on which Muslims would be hardly interested to poke their nose unlike him and as consequence of which he got so badly slammed, bloodied and dumped.Yesterday I mentioned that even Lord Ram had to kill at times. So does that make him a killer? There is no report of Jesus, (peace be upon him), killing anyone or Lord Budhha doing that, therefore perhaps Mr. Lee mention that he has reverence for the later two and not for Lord Ram. Of course he doesn’t have any reverence for Prophet Mohammed, (peace be upon him) and he declared that rather too emphatically. But his sayings and actions are different. It is like ‘Muh me Ram Ram bagal mein chhoori’. In his case ‘muh mein’ not even ‘Ram Ram’. I need not translate it for him as he hardly matters. Lord Buddha’s encounter with dacoit Angulimal and Jesus’s (peace be upon him) numerous examples had no effect on his unholy soul. Perhaps he is chela of ‘shaitan’ more than disciple of Lord Buddha and Jesus (peace be upon him).Actually such hypocrites are there everywhere. Muslims have their share of hypocrites as others have. Corrupt Muslims, cruel Muslims are hypocrite brothers of hypocrite Mr. Lee. A religious man belongs to a different genre. In Hindu philosophy, there is a sentence ‘Vaishnav Jan to tene kahiye je peed paraee jane’ roughly translates to mean, a man of religion is someone who can understand other’s pain. A vast and overwhelming majority of Hindus have their ideals ahead of them to be a Vaishnav Jan. Sometime some of them fail and sometime some of them succeed. It is a dynamic phenomenon. But by and large there is a general consensus that, that should be their ideal. It appeals the human values.Islamic philosophy as told by genuine Muslims and not hypocrites who are cruel and corrupt and as recorded in Quran and rightly interpreted, too appeals human values. Muslims agree to this. Of course, there is no need to get a certification from non-Muslim as to what Islamic ideals are. Sometime some Muslim fails to live by that ideals and sometime some Muslim live up to those ideal in a dynamic fashion similar to what happens to Hindus or Christians or Buddhist or whoever. But by and large there is a general consensus that that should be their ideal.Any failing of some Muslim at sometime cannot be attributed to Islam. It is the failure of those Muslims. Though I would not say, ‘of those Muslims alone’. In words of Dr. Zakir Nayak, if a good car is badly driven, it is not the car’s fault but that of the driver’s. In fact it is the failure of those Muslims too who were responsible to keep check that their brethrens do not fail. To that extent Muslims are really at fault for not doing their duty properly. Even Maulanas, Alims, Ulemas many of them who should have guided Muslims to bring out the best of human values as preached by Islam failed to catch imagination of masses with their rhetoric style of preaching. They confined themselves to inform masses of rituals associated with Islam. In the interpretation of the wordings of ‘Holy Quran’ also they differ and then they fail to arrive at consensus amongst themselves. They have been poor role models. No wonder present day Muslims have taken upon themselves to read and understand Quran, as they were always supposed to do but did not do earlier as much as they are doing now and relied on uninspiring sermons of uninspiring religious heads.Of course everyone will not become religious. For them what else can be said except that they would most likely go to hell, but in general no one wants to go to hell or to act irreligiously, except some Fitna loving individuals, who love to humiliate others and have hatred in their heart for others. Whatever religion may he declare to profess, it stand true for one an all. This is the universal truth. I may sound silly to say that the over searched ‘Truth’ is so commonplace. It just need common sense to find it but alas, in words of the famous architect F.L. Wright: There is nothing more uncommon than common sense!Quoting below a statement from Quran and a statement from the Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him). Praying for the soul of Mr. Lee to rest in peace.O You who believe! Show integrity for the sake of God, bearing witness with justice. Do not let hatred for a people incite you into not being just. Be just. That is closer to faith. Heed God [alone]. God is aware of what you do. (Qur'an, 5:8)This saying by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is familiar: ‘Your descent is nothing to be proud of. Nor does it bring you superiority. O people! All of you are the children of Adam. You are like equal wheat grains in a bowl … No one has any superiority over anyone else, except in religion and heedfulness. In order to consider someone a wicked person, it suffices that he humiliates other people, is mean with money, bad-tempered and exceeds the limits…'
Thank you to the Muslim retard who is using my name because I have created a new website and very soon a new e-journal will be opened in Japan.
[Offensive repetitions deleted – Ed.]
Muslims in India claim that they reside in peace; yes, and what about non-Muslims in Pakistan where Islam is in the majority?
No Buddhist society, no Hindu society, no atheist society, and so on, is going to kill apostates or kill people for marrying - ISLAM DOES!
Sultan Shahin should break free and call this website the reverts to Hinduism because you cannot love India and be Muslim, it is ridiculous, after all Islam destroyed the indigenous culture and look at the nightmare in Pakistan.
Do Sultan Shahin and fellow Muslims on this website have critical thinking? Or do you desire to follow your Arab slave masters who have brought untold misery to "mother India?"
This indeed is a serious matter. Now I am responding to the Lee Jay Walker’s post of 10/18/2010 5:39:34 AM. I hope he is the original imposter because we now seem to have two imposters by the same name. Let us call the second one as the duplicate imposter. Of course I have always maintained that Lee Jay Walker is an imposter because he has never disclosed his identity and address. Let the original imposter give out his name address and telephone number so that a representative of New Age Islam can contact him to verify his existence and thus exclude the duplicate imposter authentically.
This is the only way New Age Islam can ‘protect people’. Otherwise it will remain ‘a tale of the two imposters’ – one ‘who cannot defend Mohammed (PBUH) openly’ and the other who cannot abuse Mohammed (PBUH) ‘openly’. Indeed both imposters are so similar that they look like twin brothers lost in ‘Kumbh mela’ of ‘mother India’, and can only be recognized by the abuses found in the language of one of them. Now this Walker has suggested that based on the ‘stupidity of the comments’ the posting of Walker should be banished but that will have the effect of banning the original Walker. Why should original Walker want himself to be banished? This again raises a doubt about the identity.
Since I have taken time out to write on this issue, because Lee Jay Walker has wrongly accused me of silence, let me point out to some more fallacies of the original imposter.
He writes to the duplicate imposter, “Then revert to the faith of Hinduism before your slave masters converted your ancestors”.
Sitting in Japan, belonging to England, how does he know that the duplicate imposter is of Indian stock? Is he hands-in-glove with the duplicate imposter and is merely making stories out here to promote his brand name Lee Jay Walker which later on he might use for, say selling under-wears. He again says to his own alter-ego “this small minded individual must understand the truth because the fear is obvious”. What fear is he taking about? Is he giving a hint to the public that Lee Jay Walker is a name from the underworld to be feared about? Why is he promoting his name in this manner? Does he believe that people will buy Walker brand underwears because of fear-factor? These are some the questions that come to mind, while also hoping that I am replying to the original imposter.
Note: Sorry for the delay in posting because of snag in my computer, but considering the importance of the issue I am posting it from a friend’s computer.
Lee Jay has really become a broken record in his own words. In response to any of the comments he starts the same thing again ad nauseum. In response to my comment that he seems to have gone mad, he starts saying unrelevant things like Muslim nations beg for economic aid from European nations. What has that got to do with his going or not going mad?
European nations are giving money to the poor Muslim nations which they looted from them while their occupation. They looted India's wealth for 150 years, looting its Kohinoor diamond which adores the Queen. Recently Qatar donated 1 hbillion dollar to the US to rehabilitate the storm ravaged population. Admittedly a former Hindu I can't understand his love for the US or Europe.
A person is mad when he is having nightmares and says that he has the right to abuse people. He says that he apologises for abusing Islam and the next day says that it was not him but someone in his name had sent the mail and then starts abusing again. Only a mad person can perform such histrionics. The discussion has now become very interesting with a pagal like Lee among us. Carry on Lee till you go fully mad.
India is rising because both Hindus and Muslims live in harmony. You saw how they handled such a sensitive issue like Ayodhya judgement with so much wisdom, restraint and care.
Lee the doomed says,
Ahmad, madness applies to people following an individual who killed, enslaved, supported cruel punishments, did adultery, married a child, lied about visiting a mosque in Jerusalem that did not exist, and so forth - and only people who are a little naive, trying to be polite, would follow an individual who was evil and who left a legacy of darkness."
Lee madness applies to those who do carpet bombing killing innoncent children and women and men only to capture a country to loot its oil as done by the US and its allies. About the mosque in Jerusalem, tell me whether you believe Jesus was born without a father? How would you explain that belief? Or as a former Hindu how would you explain Hanuman having the images of Ram and Sita in his bosom. Or the Gods swallowing the Sun? This topic has already been discussed and you have been given a befitting reply but as you yourself admitted, you are a broken record.
Hadhrat Mohammad(PBUH) died in bed. It was God's will. Jesus was killed ( according to your belief), it was also God's will. He was a healthy man and married according to the customs of his day and had children. His sons did not survive, it was God's will. Was it his fault? The people who gave away their daughters in marriage to him did not complain of harassing or torturing his wives. None of your propaganda material says that he harassed or tortured his wives. They were happy to live with the prophet(PBUH). Why is it giving pain in your..y'know what.
Lee the doomed says, "Jesus and the Apostles died for justice, freedom, and leaving a legacy based on God."
Lee--We as Muslims also agree that Jesus died for justice, freedom and left a legacy based on God". But see what his so-called followers are doing. Killing innocent people for oil and minerals.
Prophet Mohammad also left a legacy based on God and fought for justice ridding the people from the injustices and exploitation by the Jews. And today Islam rules half the world. Do you want to say people of half the world are naive and fool who practise Islam? Earlier you said you left Hinduism because of its evils. You cannot say good things about any religion. Such a moron. Very sick...
Ahmad - No punishment because I am not a dhimmi and it is Islamic nations which are begging for Western economic aid and Muslim immigrants are leaving mainly Muslim nations because the majority are backward.
India is rising because of Hinduism but Pakistan is in freefall because of Islam.
Ahmad, madness applies to people following an individual who killed, enslaved, supported cruel punishments, did adultery, married a child, lied about visiting a mosque in Jerusalem that did not exist, and so forth - and only people who are a little naive, trying to be polite, would follow an individual who was evil and who left a legacy of darkness.
AHMAD obviously supports lying by his comment; what does that say about this sad individual?
Mohammed died in bed and despite all those wives and concubines not one male son survived; why?
Jesus and the Apostles died for justice, freedom, and leaving a legacy based on God.
Yes, Mohammed was surrounded by wives, concubines, and died in bed............and even he stated that he did not know if hell or heaven awaited him - wow, so much confidence...........but the answer is obvious.............
I can clearly see Mr. Lee Jay Walker has got assassinated. He had become a big brand by now and therefore I use the term assassinated for this petty road rage murder post petty street brawl. He loved fighting. He hoped that one day he would be martyred. Only unfortunately, he didn’t know the difference between street fight and a fight in arena. He couldn’t distinguish the difference between what it is like playing to galleries and what it is to indulge in extremely dangerous street fights. He has been so silently dumped off somewhere by someone that perhaps no one knows what happened to him. And not just that, before he was murdered he was mauled brutally and robbed of his identity too. Now he must be lying some where unidentified. What an ironical end to a valiant warrior of words. But perhaps no other end befitted him! And see the coincidence. The day Ravan hit the dust, Mr. Lee Jay Walker the original one got lost into obscurity.
Some one is definitely impersonating Lee. The brand Lee is still alive. And the original Lee must be part happy and part sad that though his larger than life image has caught imagination of some creative guy, at personal front he was an utter failure. He could not match the wit of that guy/gal at the other end.
Whoever said pen is mightier than sword was so amazingly true. Mr. Lee lost the battle of pen. Someone has done him in. And perhaps only few of us whom he had run into would miss the original Mr. Lee, the most.
I am writing this in the hope that if in case he is alive, then he should hear my reply. I have yet to pay him his dues. And I would have liked to pay him in his coin. Only unfortunately I cannot use abusive words. Islam has set that limitation on me. But nevertheless, here is my two cent that I owed.
Sometime I feel Lord Ram was not that wrong when he used the devious means of Sugreev to kill Baali or Vibhishan to kill Ravan. That Baali who was so powerful that even Ravan was nothing. This guy who killed original Mr. Lee must have faced similar unequal opposition from him and hence that mean for this end. Gurilla warware find legitimacy that way from the old Indian legend. That skill was so deftly employed by Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj against the mightiest of Empire of that time-the Mughals who had been ruling for 200 years by that time and over an area as vast as the present India, Pakistan, Bangladesh put together. It is another matter that in present time such gorilla attack doesn’t find praise as the terrorist have erased the distinction between civilian causality and military deaths. But times have changed much, even the military has now no impunity using the stealth safety of high heavens to carpet bomb and kill civilians.
My humble view is that I still have respect for Lord Ram as Ravan had transgressed and so what was done to him was OK. Baali’s matter I’ll come to the subject someday later. Aurangzeb Alamgir had handled the empire with highhandedness, so the rebellion was justified. Same way I feel present world leaders are handling the rebels without heeding to their genuine needs. Carpet bombing entire civil population to find a certain Mr. Lee…oops Osama without any end to that is no way. Who knows whether Osama like real Mr. Lee is dead by now or still alive! This doesn’t mean that terrorists shouldn’t be persecuted, but definitely you cannot carpet bomb others and its corollary is that you cannot ever have a peaceful occupation, as goes the famous quote.
After abusing Islam and its prophet, Lee is now getting the punishment. He is talking like a mad person. He will go fully mad soon.
This is totally outrageous..I am so fed up of this muslim retard.. [Offensive hate speech deleted. --Ed]...and telling The NEW AGE ISLAM not to publish these writings on my name.I somehow feel that I am sounding like a broken record. If it continues like this, I will go nuts soon.. This bugger has even started coming in my nightmares now.. Taking on my identity and has even started copying my style of writing.. This [Offensive hate speech deleted. --Ed].. The last night the retard almost got me on the tenterhooks when he said to me in my dreams " THE GAME HAS JUST BEGUN AND YOU ARE ALREADY ON YOUR EDGES Mr LEE . LOOK AT YOU WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN REDUCED TO FROM A RAVAGING IDIOT TO AN APOLOGETIC , SELF DEFENDING LAMB IN JUST THREE DAYS. YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN THIS. TRY HARDER". What the hell does he mean by this? Who the hell is he? And why is he after me? I want answers and I want it from SULTAN SHAHIN. If i have another nightmare like this I will file a case on this ground, for sure and i wont mind disclosing my identity and location. And why should I ? I am not doing anything wrong . I don't fear.
A Muslim retard keeps on using my name and NEW AGE ISLAM cannot be bothered about this, therefore, since Muslims know that [Offensive hate speech deleted. --Ed]; then this is why this retard keeps on doing this and this is why NEW AGE ISLAM allows this.
Would SULTAN SHAHIN like it if people made out that he was writing things that he never stated?
I use only 2 computers with my IP address on and it is obvious that this retard knows that [Offensive hate speech deleted. --Ed]; therefore, this small minded individual must understand the truth because the fear is obvious.
Since you are claiming to be me then I would suggest that you pray in a Christian church, since you are using my name; and visit Buddhist temples like I do, because both Jesus and the Buddha were men of peace; and then revert to the faith of Hinduism before your slave masters converted your ancestors.
NEW AGE ISLAM SHOULD STOP ALL EMAILS USING MY NAME WHEN IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THE WORDING DOES NOT BELONG TO ME - AND CLEARLY THE IP ADDRESS TELLS YOU THIS AND THE STUPIDITY OF THE COMMENTS.
A Muslim who pretends to be me; oh dear, what a joke and is this the way that NEW AGE ISLAM protects people?
Note the silence from others who use this place; is this what you want, for lies to be stated and for a website to do nothing to stop this?
You see, the individual cannot defend Mohammed openly, therefore, the individual hides behind shame, lies, and untruth....
Mr. Lee Jay Walker writes, “Nevertheless I would still like to prosecute them for offending me through such devious means.”
There is a snag but. He cannot prosecute anyone in India. Indian laws do not allow filing of a court case anonymously. One has to have an identity. He has to claim that he is so-and-so, son of so-and-so (If he doesn’t have a father, he can state ‘son of God’). He has also to declare his place of residence which will render him vulnerable to his acts of vandalism.But if Lee Jay Walker does disclose his identity and address, I shall like to prosecute him in the Indian courts for inciting religious hatred which is a punishable offence here.
NEW AGE ISLAM is violating my rights!
I need to have an explanation from Sultan Shahin why in all my emails they edit my abusive language sections. It reduces the intensity and impact of my reasoning to convey a certain point. I have a legal right to be abusive on any public portal I choose to, that’s what true freedom of speech is.
And why above all in the last couple of days the guy who has been impersonating me ..The bugger was allowed to publish in my name. New age islam maintains that they are an open platform and publish everything without discrimination or restrictions, except sections on self promotion and abusive language.
Nevertheless i would still like to prosecute them for offending me through such devious means.
Why they are allowing someone to put words in my mouth.?? Why dont they have a mechanism to check the authenticity of a message through IP address. There must be some mechanism to detect spoofed IP addresses and IP proxies which are used to hide ones identity. They should also penalize ISP operators who allow dynamically assigned IP addresses to its users to allow obscurity of origin.
Anyway as of the legal action, I am sure i should be able to work out grounds on which i can initiate some kind of prosecution. And if i don’t find a legal ground I wouldn't mind taking the shady routes to avenge myself. I cant disclose anymore cause this is a public portal , but it should be enough to cue the editor.
The hypocrite Sultan Shahin will have to pay for this. I believe just putting a disclaimer and fair use Notice shouldn't absolve the editor of the responsibilities. It is the job of the editors team to go through and analyze each of the comments published on this site and only publish those which they are sure are from genuine people like me. A lame excuse like .." since there are thousands of articles and comments being written everyday and its not possible to investigate the origin and authenticity of each comments.." doesn't work for me.
I need justice and i will go to any extent to avail it ..Even if it costs me thousands of dollers..Even if i lose in the end , but atleast it will give me the satisfaction that i did my part to defend my right to abuse (which i believe is an integral part of freedom of speech).. How can someone write in nonabusive language and that too in my name?I would want my genuine comments like these published and not the fake once.
LEE JAY WALKER
Mr. Lee when you say Dr. Zakir Nayak need to be deported, what liberty and freedom of speech you talk about? Same even you do against Islam, then don’t you deserve to be shut-upped. At least Dr. Zakir Nayak doesn’t say anything against Hinduism or Christianity; he just proclaims Islamic supremacy over these. He quote Geeta and Bible and even takes the name of Prophet Jesus with respect just as all Muslims are obliged to do as per Islam. And for Lord Ram as well, he speaks with respect. In any case Lord Ram’s struggle was against tyranny, and so was Prophet Mohammed’s (Peace be upon him). The greatness of Lord Ram was that he was a devoted son to his father. This certainly brought him that aura; that charisma that someone can leave his rightful throne for the sake of his father’s honour and father’s words. Such a sacrifice, and such a regards to ‘vachan’ (promise)! Now when I see Prophet Mohammed’s (Peace be upon him) teaching, I find that he has emphasized in no uncertain term that after Allah, no one has more authority on you than your parents. When you see them in old age, do not say a ‘fie’ (uff…) to them. These are the exact words of Quran. For reference if I had wished to sound more credible, I would have given the Surah no. and Chapter no. as Dr. Zakir Nayak does, but since I do not feel the need to overwhelm my readers here with awe and admiration for me, I do not need to do that. It looks if not cheap gimmick then at least displays desperate search for credibility. I am OK without that. Don’t believe me; I do not expect any trust from you.
As for keeping promises, there is so much emphasis for it in Islam that I feel I do not need to cite any example. Quran is replete with the sentence every now and then that one has to keep promises at all cost, even at the cost of life of your own. Now don’t spin stories which you like to do, saying that for Muslims life is cheap. Yes that way life is cheap than ‘vachan’, if one is a true Muslim. So Lord Ram like!
Now come to Sacrifice. What else a sacrifice is, if you do not take revenge and forgive your tormentors, which Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him) did when he won Makka and Makkan’s heart in a bloodless conquest? See the context that it was unprecedented during his time and in those places. This brought him the honour that he is bestowed even today.
Coming back to the subject, of why Dr. Zakir Nayak is still allowed to speak and stay in India, I know it will be difficult for you to understand. India is made up of people who have always been of open mind. During ancient time many Hindus got converted to Buddhism, Jainism. And since rest everything remained same except their new religion, they stayed together with their brothers and sisters and neighbours and friends of their erstwhile faith. After all they share same genes. Similarly, in medieval time again many Hindus got converted to Islam and continued to stay with their brothers and sisters and neighbours and friends of their erstwhile faith. After all blood is thicker than …. applies here. Obviously, when two differing viewpoints happen then even in a closed and well knit family there are struggles and politics and fighting… sorry infightings. But that is considered a domestic affair in India and when faced with outsiders, they get united again. Or let me say, sometimes they wash their dirty linen even in public but they are broadminded to not feel shame for that. As simple as that. Just as you people do not feel shame about many things that is taboo in Indian way of life, of both Hindus and Muslims.
By the way, the religion you claim to profess is well known to be conservative, so there is no surprise, if you fail to understand all this. Otherwise the Christianity as propounded by Christians is also a good religion, except that it does not tolerate Islam. The older version of Christianity was nothing but Islam but without this particular name. Every time a Muslims takes the name of Prophet Isa-aleheislam, adds aleheislam to that, meaning, peace for the Prophet Jesus. The best example you can see here even is all these exchanges that has happened with you, with not just me but other Muslims over here has given proof enough that Muslims do not abuse Jesus, but you have been constantly abusive to Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him).
There is also another reason why Dr. Zakir Nayak is not shut-upped by many who think like you, amongst Hindus in India, and that is because they are more realistic and know that if he be shut-upped, then the same logic will apply to them too. Nobody wants to be shut-upped. Else what do you think, RSS and other Hindu organizations which are so strong and influential to block other TV channels and alter course of politics in India, would not have done same to the PEACE TV? That would be so mean of them if they do that, and also perhaps that they are realistic unlike you.
You cannot analyze things properly, or write a good length article without copy-paste, without being abusive, without hate speeches, what you will understand of such matters!
I cannot make you understand why Muslims in India are following that religion which to you and to a few other narrow minded and small hearted fellows like you say slaughtered and destroyed so many Hindu holy places. You read that history where Babar destroyed temple named after Lord Ram, but you miss that history, where Babar was not as barbaric as made out to be. Rather he was a sophisticated man who loved writing and was very sensitive and who asked God to take his life for love of his Son, the way King Dashrath, father of Lord Ram in love of his son, suffered and died. Babar had a son Humayun who helped promote Shia-ism, even though he was Sunni. They were no doubt open minded. In his will Babar write for his son Humayun what would not be read as anything else but beautiful and thoughtful articulation by a medieval ruler about the kernel of the modern concept of secularism. Bestowing upon his son a country "full of different religions", Babar urged Humayun to "wipe all religious prejudices off the tablet of your heart", "let the subjects of different beliefs harmonize... ", and "not ruin the temples and shrines of any community which is obeying the laws of government."
Since Mr. Lee you do not merit this much reply as I firmly believe that you cannot write back on your own doing your own research, it is my general writing for readers over here. I address you only as my signature as I find you an easy game. I think it was not you who accepted Islam and denounced it 3 days later because the third day letter was long enough which I am confident you cannot write that much.
However the only possibility that it were you only comes from your habit of lying and disturbing the thread. You do not want to let Muslims do introspection. Clearly this website is named as ‘New Age Islam’ and below it is written ‘the War within Islam’. If it is matter of ‘within’ then what are you doing here, poking your nose? It is very likely that you are playing mischief. Who knows you lied the first time or the second time or both the time and perhaps you are lying now.