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Debating Islam ( 20 Aug 2014, NewAgeIslam.Com)

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'We Kill You Pakistanis, Thinking We Are Killing Americans, We Have Sinned By Accepting Your and American Help in Anti-Soviet Jihad,' Taliban Scholar Tells Pakistan Army Official - 2


Transcription Of A Video Of An Ideological Debate Between A Taliban Scholar And Pakistani Army Official Based On The Translation From Urdu In The Superimposed Text In Pakistan Government Video.

{Being presented so that Ulema (Islamic scholars) may know how Islam is being distorted in extremist discourse and defend Islam's peaceful nature by refuting the allegations against Quran (words of God), Hadees (sayings of the Prophet), Sunnah (examples, practices) of the Prophet and Shariah (Islamic Law).}

By New Age Islam Edit Desk

21 August 2014

Pakistani Army Official: But it is you Taliban who are killing the Muslims. Only Allah SWT can open your eyes, nobody else can. I do not know when your eyes will open. Bomb blast in the market places, women ……… (Interrupted by Taliban scholar)

Taliban Scholar: (Sounds upset) do not lie about the bomb blasts in the market places. Do not mention the bomb blasts in market places again. You do these blasts yourself. Agents of Blackwater are your own allies and you are their slaves. If you do not have evidence then do not make up the allegation on your own. Only say those things that you can prove with evidence.

Pakistani Army Official: (Sounds very angry and shouts) Tell me, how many Muslims and how many Americans have you killed so far? Huh, how many Americans have you killed so far, tell me?

Taliban Scholar: When we kill you people, our intention is as if we are killing the Americans. The only difference is that the monthly expenditure on an American soldier is $80,000 but you people sell yourself for only $300 per month. That is the only difference. Otherwise we consider you and Americans as same. I have mentioned earlier that we are at war with the People of the Book here (in Pakistan) as well as there (in Afghanistan). Similarly, we are fighting against the servants of Kuffar here as well as there.

Pakistani Army Official: Mufti sahib! Give me the answer.

Taliban Scholar: I have given you the answer; we kill you with the intention of killing the Americans.

Pakistani Army Official: But Shariah was not implemented even during the rule of Zia-ul-Haq (1979-88). Why did you not think of doing Jihad against Pakistan Army then? Was it because you were devouring the money of Pakistan government while fighting against the Russians? At that time you were taking the money from the Americans and you were also taking money from us whom you know call Murtadeen. Was that money justified for you?

Taliban Scholar: (Sounds frustrated) I have explained this to you so many times before, but it seems to me that you do not want to understand. What should we do with you then? This is one of the reasons for which we have risen for jihad so that we open those minds that could not be opened by the book of Allah SWT; that could not be opened by Ahadees of Prophet (pbuh). That is the reason we have picked up these weapons so that we open those minds. As far as this question is concerned as to why did we not do jihad (against Pakistan Army) during the time of Zia-ul-Haq, well, this is a sin upon us. I think that jihad had become obligatory upon us in 1947 (at the time of creation of Pakistan). If we have committed a sin before, it does not mean that we should continue committing the sin forever. If our ancestors made mistakes of receiving aid from ISI, it does not mean that we should keep repeating that mistake. This is your habit to remain defiant about your mistakes.

Pakistani Army Official: You said it was wrong for us to accept the aid from America (during jihad against Russia); if you consider it wrong then you should yourself stop taking money from America. Pakistan Army is not taking any money from America; rather you Taliban are taking the money from America. (Then quickly tries to change the topic). Now give me the answer of the next question……(quickly caught by Taliban scholar).

Taliban Scholar: Hang on! Who is taking the money from America?

Pakistani Army Official: ……you say that market places……women…..children….(interrupted by Taliban scholar)

Taliban Scholar: No, no, listen, do not run here and there. Tell me who is taking the money from America?

Pakistani Army Official: (Tries his best to avoid the question) hmmm, hmm…..No, you answer my question. You say that in Moon market Lahore…. (Interrupted by Taliban scholar)

Taliban Scholar: No, that is not the fair. We should talk with good manners and in a sequence. Do not try to jump ahead. Tell me, who is taking money from America?

Pakistani Army Official: (angrily) did you not take money from America? Huh?

Taliban Scholar: Ok I confess that we took money from America in the past (during jihad against Russians). Now do you confess that you are taking the money from Americans at present (to fight against Muslims)?

Pakistani Army Official: We do not take money. It is somebody else who takes the money from Americans. We only take our salary to fight that is Halal for us. All right?

Taliban Scholar: That is exactly what I am saying. You people of Pakistan Army are brought to the front line by the Americans and then discarded as toilet papers. Otherwise, Americans spend $80,000 per month on one American soldier but they give you people only $300 per month. That is very nice and Halal salary! Isn’t it? Congratulations to you!!

Pakistani Army Official: (sounding embarrassed and confused) All right…….hmm, my ….. I am saying….. that we take the salary ….Ok, you are saying that our salary is not Halal (among the things permitted by Islam) but we don’t think like this. Thanks to Allah, our salary is Halal. Now just say once, everybody is listening, number one, that the war fought in Afghanistan against the Russians by yourself; or by your ancestors; or by your brothers, was a haram war and number two, say that you curse and you are not a part of those people who kill women and children through suicide attacks and may Allah punish them for this act. What do you say about this?

Taliban Scholar: Ok listen; I have said this many times before that accepting help from a Kafir against another Kafir is a debatable issue. I will explain this issue to you. If Muslim seeks help from a Kafir against another Kafir and there is a risk that the laws of Kafir will prevail after the victory, then such help is not legal according to Shariah. But if the help is sought from Kafir and there is no risk that the laws of Kafir will dominate after the victory, then taking such help is allowed. Scholars have given Fatwas in favour of this and both types of scenarios were observed during the life of Prophet (pbuh).

Once Prophet (pbuh) was marching for a battle and a strong Mushrik approached and asked for the permission to participate in the battle. But Prophet (pbuh) replied that “I would never take the help from a Mushrik”. But on the occasion of conquest of Makkah, Prophet (pbuh) accepted the help from Safwan bin Umayyah who had not embraced Islam by then. Hence, the examples of taking help from a Kafir against another Kafir and not taking the help from a Kafir against a Muslim are present in the life of Prophet (pbuh).

Islamic scholars explain that when Prophet (pbuh) declined the help of a Mushrik (at the time of Badr), Muslims were weak at that time but on the occasion of the conquest of Makkah, the Muslims were strong and there was no risk or doubt that taking the help from Kafir will affect the domination of Islamic laws. Therefore the verdict in Shariah is that if no harm is caused to Islam laws by taking the help from a Kafir against another Kafir, then taking such help is allowed but if there is a risk of damage to the Islamic laws then such help is forbidden. We believe that our elders and ancestors took the help from America against Russians because they thought that Islamic laws will dominate as a result. That's why we consider their action as correct according to Shariah. But you will never find any scholar who would consider taking money from a Kafir to fight against Muslims as lawful; something that you people are doing.

Pakistani Army Official: But I am asking that according to you, Shariah was not established in Pakistan at the time of war against Russia and similarly according to you, Shariah is not established in Pakistan even today. According to you, we were Murtadeen (apostates) back then and we are also Murtadeen today. In the past when you were devouring the money of Pakistan government, was it not the money of Murtadeen? Was the money of Murtadeen Halal for you back then?

Taliban Scholar: I have explained this many times before but you do not want to understand. It seems that we will have to use the alternative methods to make you understand, Insha Allah. Your actions were not that clear during the time of Russian Jihad. But the mask has now been removed from your face since the start of Jihad in Pakistan that this country is not Islamic Republic of Pakistan, rather it is Kufri Republic of Pakistan. The people’s minds became clear about this hypocrisy after the start of war in Pakistan. But this is utterly false that we have been devouring the money of Pakistan government… thousand percent lie! The truth is that Pakistan government, rulers, army and soldiers like yourself used to steal from the American aid money that was meant to go to the Mujahideen fighting against Russians.

Pakistani Army Official: Yesterday, you said that Shariah was not implemented and Islam is being mocked in Pakistan for past 63 years. Today, you are saying that your eyes have opened just now and you did not know in the past Pakistan Army was Murtad. You should not keep changing your stance. Either you should say that Shariah was implemented or was not implemented in Pakistan.  You should remain firm on one statement.

Taliban Scholar: No, you are lying. I never said that Shariah was ever implemented here [in Pakistan]. I said that the Kufr of Pakistan was hidden earlier and I am saying it repeatedly that we should have started our jihad (right from the creation of Pakistan in 1947) but we made that mistake. We repent for this delay and manifestation of repentance is that a few of us have now started our Jihad against Pakistani government. We are busy in Jihad and we repent for our delay but I never said that Shariah was ever implemented in Pakistan. Either this is a misunderstanding on your part or you are deliberately laying a false accusation, but I did say that we were not aware of the reality of situation in Pakistan. The scholars who understood the reality, they did not explain it to the public. They might have their own wisdom and justifications.  I am repeating it time and again that Jihad (against Pakistan) has been obligatory on us since 1947, but we and our ancestors have been late to start. We feel that this was a sin on our and our ancestors’ part and we seek forgiveness from Allah (swt).

(To be continued)

The First Part of this debate:

Debating His Islam with Pakistan Army, Taliban Scholar Asks Why Do You Have Any Doubt That We Consider Pakistanis Kuffar, Cites Prophet's Demolition of Masjid-e-Zarrar of Munafiqs to Justify Terrorism -1


URL of Part 2:,-thinking-we-are-killing-americans,-we-have-sinned-by-accepting-your-and-american-help-in-anti-soviet-jihad,--taliban-scholar-tells-pakistan-army-official---2/d/98664