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Debating Islam ( 22 Aug 2014, NewAgeIslam.Com)

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'Prophet Mohammad Himself Justified and Practiced Killing of Innocent Children, Women, Civilians': Taliban Scholar Tells Pakistan Army Official Quoting Hadees From Bukhari To Justify Terrorism - 4

  Transcription of a video of an ideological debate between a Taliban Scholar and Pakistani Army Official based on the translation from Urdu in the superimposed text in Pakistan government video.

{Being presented so that Ulema (Islamic scholars) may know how Islam is being distorted in extremist discourse and defend Islam's peaceful nature by refuting the allegations against Quran (words of God), Hadees (sayings of the Prophet), Sunnah (examples, practices) of the Prophet and Shariah (Islamic Law).}

By New Age Islam Edit Desk

23 August 2014

Pakistani Army Official: (tries to laugh off embarrassingly) let’s talk about something else. Your leaders and elders came out in the media with broad chest and took the responsibility of bomb blasts in Moon market Lahore and attack on the school bus in Kamra. Can you confirm that you carried out these bomb blasts?

Taliban Scholar: Alhamdulillah, we accept the responsibility of Kamra attack because that was a military school. If there were any children killed in that attack, then obviously some children may be killed while killing the adults.

I explain to you the Usool of Fiqh (principles of Islamic jurisprudence) that it is the target and the intention that matter; otherwise what is the point to fight the war anyway? If the actions of Prophet (pbuh) are of any importance and standard for you, then listen that Prophet (pbuh) flooded the whole area during the battle of Ta’if and fitted a catapult upon the enemy. Obviously, women and children were killed during that battle. Also it is narrated by Sa’ab bin Jassama (ra) that Prophet (pbuh) asked them to carry out a night raid on certain tribe. Sahaba (ra) said: "O messenger of Allah (pbuh), (among them are their women and children) Sahih Bukhari, Kitab ul Jihad, Hadees 3012. Prophet (pbuh) replied: "They are part of them". That is why we are proud of the operation that we carried out in Kamra in which we destroyed the military school. But you are repeating the allegations of bombing the markets again and again. It would be better if you accept the responsibility of those attacks yourself because Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan and its central spokesman condemned those attacks through media and by distributing the pamphlets.

Pakistani Army Official: So you are saying that you proudly accept the responsibility of attack on school children in Kamra.

Taliban Scholar: The Ahadees that I mentioned above, do they not appear authentic to you?

Pakistani Army Official: (becomes angry) What I am mentioning to you.....hmm..... If Prophet (pbuh) was alive today and Allah (swt) had shown him what his Ummah was doing. When you kill women and children, do you think Prophet (pbuh) had patted your back Nauzobillah and said well done, you have done a great job?

Our Prophet (pbuh) was given the title of Rahmatul lil Aalameen (blessing for all the worlds) and who was stoned by the people of Ta’if to the extent that his shoes were filled with blood. Allah (swt) said to him,”O Prophet, if you order I will crush the town of Ta;\’if by dropping a mountain over them,” Prophet (pbuh) said no, because there were women and children present inside this town. Prophet (pbuh) prayed for their guidance rather than their destruction. Is that true or not? You are attributing strange kinds of narrations to Prophet (pbuh) who was Rahmatul lil Aalameen (blessing for the worlds) and you think that he would have been very pleased with your actions of killing women and children. I think you have gone into very deep misguidance.

Taliban Scholar: So in other words, do you want to say that I am making up the above mentioned Ahadees myself? I mentioned the incidence of Ta’if war and narration of Sa’ab bin Jassama (ra) above. Do you think I made up these stories myself? The incidence of Ta’if that you mentioned is related to Da’wah. This has nothing to do with fighting. The rulings of war are different from the rulings of other circumstances.

Probably you don’t have the knowledge about these issues that is why you are making mistakes.

The circumstances of general peace and war are different. In general circumstances, Prophet (pbuh) forbade to kill the women and children but if the operation cannot be accomplished without causing a risk to them, then in that situation, the Hadees narrated in Bukhari and Muslim by Sa’ab bin Jassama is very clear in which Prophet (pbuh) said that it would not matter if some women and children were killed while killing the Mushrekeen as they were part of Mushrekeen. This is Hadees of messenger of Allah (pbuh) and he deployed catapult in Ta’if and in that incidence every kind of people including women and children were killed. Then what are you talking about? Do you consider yourself more intelligent than the messenger of Allah (pbuh)?

Pakistani Army Official: Prophet (pbuh) laid the siege of that town for one week. Read the history carefully and please do not try to misguide others. After one week Prophet (pbuh) finished the siege and returned to Makkah. Am I not right?

Taliban Scholar: (Stressing) Prophet (pbuh) specifically fitted the catapult during the siege of Ta’if and he also flooded the fields of enemy.  That is how Prophet (pbuh) dealt with them. What history are you taking about then? If you have any book of Seerah or history, you can consult it for your satisfaction.

Pakistani Army Official: (becomes angry) Hang on, hang on! I will tell you another Hadees. You are saying that Prophet (pbuh) ordered to kill women and children. Let me tell you another Hadees to counter this claim of yours. Prophet (pbuh) said, “If you come across any of my Hadees that contradicts Qur’an; just throw that Hadees against the wall as it can't be my Hadees. I repeat again, Prophet (pbuh) said, “If you see any my Hadees contradicting Qur’an, just throw that Hadees against the wall,”

Pakistani Army Official: (After a brief pause).... The Hadees that you just mentioned; which book did you take it from?

Taliban Scholar: You can find this Hadees in Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim and in every major book of Hadees or you can ask any scholar.....

Pakistani Army Official: Prophet said that if any of my Hadees goes against Qur’an then be sure that it can’t be my saying. Now Qur’an says not to kill women and children and you are saying that Prophet (pbuh) gave the orders in contradiction to Qur’an. This means that Hadees can be weak and its narrator may have some problem. Do you accept this?

Taliban Scholar tries to say something.

Pakistani Army Official: No, you tell me first. The Hadees you mentioned that Prophet (pbuh) asked to throw his Hadees against the wall if it contradicts Qur’an; prove to me that such a Hadees actually exists.

Taliban Scholar: This Hadees is present in every major book of Hadees, Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. I don’t have any book opened in front of me; otherwise I would have given you the exact reference as well. You can ask any scholar about this Hadees and if you are sincerely in search of truth, you will definitely find it, Insha’Allah.

Pakistani Army Official: No, this is nothing but only your concoction. No such Hadees exists in any book. You will have to prove this Hadees on which you based your argument. You may bring your evidence tomorrow in our next session.

Taliban Scholar: I can add further that Prophet (pbuh) gave direct orders to kill the women who used to oppose Prophet (pbuh) and sang defamatory songs against him. Name of one such woman was Esma (spells clearly) and Prophet (pbuh) got her killed through a blind Sahabi Abu Unais RA. Similarly Prophet (pbuh) ordered to kill two slave girls who used to sing blasphemous songs against the Prophet (pbuh). Those girls were wrapped in the covering of Ka’ba but even then Prophet (pbuh) ordered to kill them. How can you possibly say that Prophet (pbuh) did not kill the women during the time of war? Yes those women were not killed who were not opposing Islam. I am stressing again and again that there is difference between the rulings of war and other circumstances. It is allowed according to Shariah and Seerah of Prophet (pbuh), to kill those women who come out to oppose and fight against Islam.

Pakistani Army Official: Are you trying to say that school children of Kamra came out to fight against you, holding Kalashnikovs in their hands?

Taliban Scholar: You are repeating again and that they were children. We know very well what kind of children were they? Those "children” were 18 to 20 years old. When we killed the son of Iftikhar Hussain (a Murtad minister allied to Americans), he also started crying that Taliban killed his “child”, even though he was 29 or 30 years of age. The people killed in Kamra were not children, and mind you, I am stressing again and again that the target and intention are the main factors in executing an operation, not the results. Otherwise how would you explain the actions of the Prophet (pbuh) such as fitting the catapult in the war of Ta’if, flooding the fields, burning and cutting the trees etc. All such actions are forbidden in other circumstances but during the war they are allowed.

Pakistani Army Official: (Mumbles) I don’t want to hear any rubbish against Prophet (pbuh) . Whatever you are saying will be investigated. (Shouts abruptly) Have fear of Allah, tell me which Kafir and Mujahid was hiding in that school on which you were firing your catapult? Did you see Kalashnikovs or grenades in the hands of those children?

Taliban Scholar: I am trying to explain that our targets over there were not children. Rather we were targeting those military instructors who teach in your cadet and military institutions. Of course they are our enemies and we don’t have any doubt about that. It is not necessary that every enemy should hold a Kalashnikov. We know that many of our enemies are active against u through their pens, such as journalists etc. Our prime targets in that school were the senior officers and your media is trying to cover up their deaths.

Pakistani Army Official: That attack in Kamra was carried out on a school bus in which many small children died. Do you see the young children as your enemies? Secondly you said that you do not carry out bomb blasts in market places then why don’t you say that may curse of Allah and all his angels be upon those who do suicide attacks in the markets.

Taliban Scholar: Sorry, I am not obliged to obey your orders to curse this person or that. You should rather curse yourself; that would be more appropriate. You said that we carried out attack on the school bus. We know very well, how many adults and how many children were there in that bus. Alhamdulillah, we plan our operations after a great deal of thinking and planning. We are not like you people who handed over Afia Siddiqui to Americans, who specifically target the mosques in the tribal areas and who murder the Muslims.

You are trying to prove yourself so clean; just analyse your actions; have a peep inside your own vest. You are missing the little school children of Kamra so much; do you not remember the innocent little kids of Lal Masjid (Red Mosque, Islamabad) whom you murdered, who were busy in the remembrance of Allah SWT there. You knew very well that those children were present in the Masjid and you did not kill them by mistake. In other countries, special arrangements are made to evacuate the civilians and children from the areas of conflict. Women and children are either given safe passages or evacuated after making them unconscious by some gas. All these crimes are in front of you; still you are repeating the same mantra of Kamra all the time. What kind of justice is this?

(To be continued)

URL of Part 1:,-taliban-scholar-asks-why-do-you-have-any-doubt-that-we-consider-pakistanis-kuffar,-cites-prophet-s-demolition-of-masjid-e-zarrar-of-munafiqs-to-justify-terrorism--1/d/98645

URL of Part 2:,-thinking-we-are-killing-americans,-we-have-sinned-by-accepting-your-and-american-help-in-anti-soviet-jihad,--taliban-scholar-tells-pakistan-army-official---2/d/98664

URL of Part 3:,-a-kafir;-is-pakistan-his-property;-it-is-our-homeland-and-we-want-to-implement-shariah-of-allah-in-our-homeland,-taliban-scholar-tells-pakistan-army-official---3/d/98684