Books and Documents

Debating Islam

Despite the public willingness to open a ‘new chapter’ in ties, are the talks at the SAARC Summit once again mere lip service? Will they, like previous efforts, fail in resuming a proper dialogue? More importantly, is the crackdown on Lashkar-e-Taiba and Jamaatud Dawa the only obstacle in Pak-India ties? -- DAWN.COM 


Would it be heretical to suggest that instead of sacrificing animals and overeating meat for several days, pious Muslims should donate money to help poor people undergo some simple eye operations that will save or restore their sight, or do some other good deed that will bring joy to the lives of those who are deprived of decent living conditions?

Long years ago, I went to see a feature film in my native Lahore but it turned out to be a documentary mainly about the hajj (annual Islamic pilgrimage). In those days, I had a very idealistic faith and used to attend all public meetings by leading ulema who visited Lahore. So, a chance to see the whole hajj onscreen thrilled me quite a lot.

Among the rituals shown was the sacrifice of animals at the time of the Eid-ul-Adha to commemorate the tradition of Prophet Abraham. To my great horror, men with long knives cut open the throats of goats, sheep and other animals, and, while they were writhing in excruciating pain, threw them into long ditches. As soon as one ditch was filled, the bulldozer would cover it up with dust and sand and then more animals where cut up and thrown the same way into another ditch. One could see rows and rows of ditches and lots of blood splattered all over.

I must confess, I could not find any sense in God wanting animals to be killed in such a grotesque manner and thrown into ditches. The explanation we had been given at home was that the meat of the sacrificed animal was to be shared with the poor, relatives, neighbours, and indeed by the family that offered the animal for sacrifice. In Saudi Arabia, it was nothing of the sort. -- Ishtiaq Ahmed

Although I get my share of spam in my inbox, I often receive very interesting and useful links as well. One took me to a recent debate at New York University. Organised by Intelligence Squared, the topic was ‘Islam is a religion of peace’….

Defending the proposition were Maajid Nawaz of the anti-terrorist think-tank, the Qulliam Foundation, and Zeba Khan, a young Indian-American who set up a volunteer group, Muslims for Obama. Opposing it was Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the famous Somali dissident who first migrated to Holland, and now lives in the United States. Sharing the panel with her was Douglas Murray, the director of London’s Centre for Social Cohesion…..

As so may Muslims are prone to do, Khan and Nawaz declared that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, and blamed a small minority of ‘hijacking Islam’ for political ends. Hirsi Ali and Murray, opposing the motion, insisted that there were many sections of the Islamic texts that urged followers to commit violent acts. All four debaters argued persuasively, but the proposition was defeated in the final vote. Interestingly, more people thought that Islam was indeed a religion of peace before the debate than afterwards. -- Irfan Husain

You are against secularism and pluralism, which in itself points towards your practice of exploiting the religion to suit your own agenda. I gather, when Prophet Mohammad took over the administration of Yathrib (Madina), its population consisted mostly of two large Arab (Aws) and three Jewish ( Khazraj) tribes. The Madinan Arabs wanted the Prophet to administer the strife torn city as an outsider with no vested interests in the local disputes. They also wanted this potential messiah to be part of their group and not the rival Jewish tribe. Upon arrival in Madina, the Prophet set about getting all parties together to sign a covenant, which would set standards for pluralism, tolerance and cooperation between various religious and ethnic communities. The covenant gave equality to all its citizens and accepted the coexistence of different religions in the community. The messiah’s inspiration was the Holy Quran, which makes it incumbent upon Muslims to accept and respect all the previous messengers without distinction. -- Kamal Hak


One needs no reminding that the global Muslim community is very diverse in terms of race, language, culture, theological denominations and interpretations of religious texts. A call for intra-Muslim dialogue is therefore not a call for imposition of any interpretational hegemony or a push for ‘orthodoxy’ and ‘orthopraxis’. On contrary a call for intra-Muslim dialogue is based upon the absolute need to facilitate dialogue between various contemporary Muslim schools of thought and build bridges of better understanding between them based on the universal values of mutual respect and dignity. -- Adis Duderija

The activist-author ignores history when she says Kashmir was ‘never integral’ to India. Her India is a figment of her imagination. The real India is rooted in civilisational history which tells us how Kashmir was all along a part of Bharat. In our stories and legends, the sweep of our philosophies and schools of thought, there was a unity to this land that far transcended political boundaries. This is why Adi Shankaracharya — from a remote village in Kerala — would have the conception of setting up Mathas in each of the four corners of India. He travelled to Kashmir at Srinagar (the abode of ‘Sri’) and to the Sharada Temple (now in ruins in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir), a pre-eminent seat of learning in India, and opened the ‘South India’ gate to it by demonstrating his knowledge. This is why in the legend when Shakti is cut up, the pieces of her body land in various parts of the entire land mass of greater India with the Saraswati Peetha, appropriate to Kashmir’s position as the ‘head’ of India and its centre of learning, located in Kashmir. It does not matter if the stories are legends. What matters is that, from ancient times, the people of this land have conceived of it as a unity — in the story of the Shakti Peethams even as one body — and Kashmir has been an integral part of this Indian civilisation. More than a part, Kashmir has been the crown. Before being converted to a hotbed of terrorism it was the seat of Sanskrit scholarship. From Kalhan and Kalidas (who extolled its beauties) to Nagarjuna and Abhinavgupta, it has represented the highest of Indian civilization. Kashmir Shaivism left its impact on the entire country and Nagarjuna and the Buddhist scholars took that even beyond the borders to China and Japan. It is this civilisation that nurtured the freedom of thought and expression that Arundhati Roy so passionately seeks. It is this civilisation that has nurtured pluralism and vigorous debate between the Shaivaites and the Vaishnavites, the Shramanas, the Buddhists, the Brahmans and the Jains; yet promoted exo-existence and mutual harmony. It is this civilisation that welcomed the Sufis and the persecuted Jews and Parsis, fleeing from the Islamic invasion of Persia (now Iran). Kashmiriyat — the mutual harmony between communities — is nothing other than Indian-ness. And it is because Arundhati Roy is in India that she can voice these opinions. It is because of Indian freedom that Syed Ali Shah Geelani, who shared the pro-azadi stage with Arundhati Roy, along with Maoists and other ISI-supported forces, can give speeches in India espousing separatism from the Indian state.   -- Sankrant Sanu


“With saying and doing what galls India, the enemy, most of all. (It’s easy to scoff at the idea of a `freedom struggle` that wishes to distance itself from a country that is supposed to be a democracy and align itself with another that has, for the most part, been ruled by military dictators. A country whose army has committed genocide in what is now Bangladesh. A country that is even now being torn apart by its own ethnic war.... "

If this is what Arundhati Roy wrote two years ago, what could have prompted some in the Indian media and their political minders to go at her like a lynch mob by reheating an old story, and to slap her with charges of sedition last week? What she said in a discussion in Delhi was not new....

It may not be a coincidence that the charge of sedition was led by RSS sympathisers. Before the Delhi event, all the headlines were riveted to the alleged exploits of one Indresh Kumar. The senior RSS leader has emerged as a key player in the Hindutva terror network, particularly their false flag attacks on Muslims. The RSS had an interest that newspaper headlines take their focus off him. (Sedition was what the RSS supported in 1974, when Jaiprakash Narayan — JP — urged the army and police not to take orders from Indira Gandhi`s government. For that JP became famous as India`s or people`s leader.) -- Jawed Naqvi

Irrespective of whether they are booked for treason or sedition or not at the moment, the Kashmiri separatists achieved one thing. They succeeded in taking their ‘war for azadi’ out of Kashmir and roping in the support of other disgruntled sections like the Naxals and of course, of beti Arundhati as called fondly by the ‘Qaide Inquilab’ Syed Ali Shah Geelani.

How this ‘unholy’ alliance is going to benefit the Kashmiri separatists and the Naxals is anybody’s guess .Political analysts are baffled by the bizarre bonhomie between the two movements that do not recognise the state of India. While the Naxals believe in bringing about a violent coup to establish the rule of the proletariat based on Marxist-Leninist ideology that believes that religion is the opium of the masses, the Kashmiri separatists want to get independence from India to establish Nizam-e-Mustafa (Islamic system) in Kashmir.

Another disturbing report says that the ISI has advised some Kashmiri separatist leaders to make inroads into Naxal ranks. Syed Ali Shah Geelani’s conference in Delhi clearly seems to be a concerted effort by Geelani and his ilk along the ISI directives. And he seems to have achieved some success in it. If this is true then the government should take this development very seriously and nip this unholy alliance in the bud. -- S. Arshad, NewAgeIslam.com

Shastri insisted that the recent judgment of the Allahabad High Court on the Ayodhya issue should be challenged in the Supreme Court. ‘The judgment is based on the religious beliefs of some people, and this will prove to be immensely dangerous for the future of the country. There is danger that such questions of people’s faith will begin to crop up everywhere and then nobody’s places of worship will be safe,’ he warned. He added that if the Allahabad High Court’s judgment was not challenged and overturned it would be tantamount to surrendering before Hindu extremism. ... Shastri stressed that speaking out against the verdict of the Allahabad high Court and struggling for a just settlement of the dispute was not something that concerned access to justice for Muslims alone. Rather, he said, it concerned every citizen of India who wanted to preserve and salvage India’s unity and communal harmony. -- Syed Mansur Agha

 (Translated from Urdu by Yoginer Sikand, NewAgeIslam.com)

Angelina is not happy with the attitude of the authorities and the government, who were more interested in toeing her line, watching her make movements, trying to please her while pushing the flood victims. She was also perturbed at the Prime Minister’s wish that his family wanted to meet him. Prime Minister’s family was especially flown down all the way from Multan to Islamabad and they presented expensive gifts to Jolie and had a sumptuous meal with her.... In her report to the United Nations, she has recommended UN to ask Pakistani government to first cut down on their expenses and to first cut down their luxuries before asking the aid from the world. How true she is. -- Zeenat Rehman

Foie gras, by its very nature, does not meet the two requirements mentioned above and cannot qualify as halal no matter how closely the slaughter laws are adhered to. Ducks and geese raised for foie gras (French for "fatty liver") are force-fed with pipes that are shoved down the birds' throats. Up to 4 pounds of grain and fat are pumped into birds' stomachs several times each day. This cruel procedure causes birds' livers to become diseased—known as hepatic lipidosis—and swell to up to 10 times their normal size. Birds suffer excruciating pain throughout their lives, and many birds with diseased and enlarged livers, which can only be described as deformed, become too sick to stand up.

Therefore, the production of foie gras does not meet the two requirements of Islamic law, which clearly states that animals must not be under stress or discomfort before slaughter and that animals must not be diseased, mutilated, or deformed. Although Muslims who eat foie gras without knowing how it is produced may be forgiven in the eyes of God, it is the obligation of the foie gras producers to tell Muslim customers how foie gras is produced and to refrain from the deceptive "halal foie gras" labeling. -- Syed Rizvi

“India needs azadi from Kashmir and Kashmir needs azadi from India,” she told an appreciative crowd of secessionists and their supporters, carted in from Aligarh Muslim University, Jawaharlal Nehru University, Jamia Millia Islamia, Delhi University and other such taxpayer-funded institutions of learning that double up as fast-breeders of Muslim separatists and Left extremists for whom nationalism is as offensive as their nationality. But this is not the first time Arundhati Roy has outraged sensitivities. Two years ago, on August 19, 2008, after attending a rally organised by separatists in Srinagar, she had excitedly told mediapersons eager to record her pearls of wisdom: “India needs azadi from Kashmir as much as Kashmir needs azadi from India.” She had then added with a flourish, as is by now her established style of exaggerating a point to sheer banality, “If no one is listening then it is because they don’t want to hear. Because this is a referendum… People don’t need anyone to represent them, they are representing themselves.” -- Kanchan Gupta

Extremism, sectarian killings, Maslaki differences, etc. are all products of the Madrasa system

As Muslims we should give primary importance to our only holy book 'Quran' and not to any other book even if it is written by any reputed author  because personal bias and weak Hadiths, unauthentic tales and stories not in consonance with the Quranic directives always make inroads. Hence various deviations, Shirk, Bidah and un-Islamic customs and practices prevail in our divided society based on sects, Maslak, Fiqah, Maktabi differences. So much so our Masajids are also divided. The Ajmi Muslims are more divided today than the Arabs... Due to lack of Quranic knowledge/ Quran Fahmi our people get exploited by the Mullah community who have hijacked Islam and confined it to so called five pillars of Islam not supported in the Quran plus building of Masajids and Madrasas and collecting donations for the sake of Allah as if Allah is poor.

The Madrasas instead of becoming a centre of religious and worldly knowledge and producing broad minded students with ability to adjust in today's society at large, has been narrowed down to produce Mullahs like bishops, cardinals and Popes etc. Their primary objects usually becomes to grow long beard with no KHAT (trimming), wear so called Islamic dress, advise others on religion, make long speeches with long DUAS, become priests or Imam, do no hard or office job, always say that natural calamities and death destructions are Allah's wrath instead of facing and taking preventive measures through hard work and planning etc.

Suicide bombings, extremism, sectarian killings, Maslaki differences, religious groupings and parties etc. are all products of the Madrasa system which requires to be upgraded to schools or merged into schools as Islam is Deen and Dunya both and not separate as preached by the Mullahs to produce Mullahs. All of us should approach all Masajids and Madrasas to be more liberal and promote Quranic knowledge first through reading of translation of Quran and explaining it to the students and the Namaziz instead of promoting and lecturing and confusing us through weak Hadiths, unauthentic stories, tales and traditions so that we can clearly understand Allah's directives and withstand bravely all exploitations, deviations, extremism, Un Islamic customs and practices, Shirk, Bidah etc. This is Islam. -- Syed Sadruddin Hussain


Don’t Hurl abuses at the Ulama

Of course, like all other institutions—including Universities—the Madaris and the Ulama that they produce also need to undertake and undergo a lot of reforms. One such reform would be to introduce modern subjects like science, mathematics, geography, history and literature etc. to increase their capacity to contribute to society. Already, there is a growing realization for this change among the ulama. Who would have thought that computer and English would be taught at Darul-Oloom?

I am specially pained by the suggestion of abolishing the madaris outright.  Instead of hurling abuses at the Ulama, and passing sly remarks at their beards, we should think of engaging them and enlisting their support in the development activities. I firmly believe that no large scale change can come about without enlisting the support of the maulvis. -- Zafar Bari

Deepak (Tripathi) started the discussion with an overview of Indian foreign policy, making the excellent point that after the end of the Cold War, India had become more pragmatic, shedding its earlier non-aligned position originally based on Nehru’s idealism. Now, according to him, New Delhi had built a ‘bridge to Washington that passes through Tel Aviv’. Thus, India had disengaged to an extent from its neighbours, and from the Middle East. A sign of this change in foreign policy is the fact that when once India actively supported Palestine in its conflict with Israel, it is now neutral. This is an accurate assessment of the shift in India’s outlook. Of course, there is little place for non-alignment in today’s post-Cold War era. But India’s reaching out to Washington and Israel with such indecent eagerness would not have pleased the country’s founding fathers.

As we were given 5-7 minutes for our presentations, I focused on Indian policy as it impinged on Pakistan. Basically, I repeated what I have written about several times in my columns: India, as the far more powerful and self-confident state in the region, can afford to take unilateral steps to reassure the Pakistani defence establishment. This is essential if India, Pakistan and Afghanistan are to coordinate the ongoing battle against the jihadis who are the common threat. When Western forces leave Afghanistan – as they will in the near future – it is the regional powers that will have to face the Taliban menace. -- Irfan Husain


In a country with a bleak future, the black coat’s ‘revolution’ — or should we call it ‘coup’? — might throw away President Zardari’s immunity and push the government to write to the Swiss courts.

The impatient establishment of Pakistan is once again pushing the country towards a change of government. Various configurations and plans are being debated in power circles. A broad consensus among the political parties, that no change should be brought in through extra-constitutional means, makes the job of removing the government by the establishment more difficult and complicated. The basic questions from the people’s point of view that need to be asked are: for what will there be a change of government? How will it solve the problems of the country? And how will this change help the poor people of Pakistan? -- Babar Ayaz


A few days back a small headline in the Urdu daily Munsif (Hyderabad) caught my eye: “The Worst Attempt at the State Level to Declare the Qadianis Muslim.” The text went on to report on what the dignitaries of an organization called Majlis-i-Khatm-i-Nabuwwat Trust, AndhraPradesh had said in the way of denouncing the Mayawati government in Uttar Pradesh. However, only one sentence in the report running to 18 lines communicated any sense of what the alleged “attempt and conspiracy” was: “In the textbooks for high schools the Qadiani sect has been included in the account of the many sects among the Muslims.” Then I received a mailing that brought to my attention a long note by Sultan Shahin entitled “Muslim Juhala threaten Mayawati government over Ahmadiya issue.”  It included the full text of an item published in Hamara Samaj (New Delhi; 25 August 2010) that provided the information I needed...Clearly, the only questionable feature in the report is the use of “Andolan” for “sect.”...

I would like to draw their attention to two books. The first is the autobiography of Maulavi Abdul Majid Dariabadi, whose name I am sure they all know and revere. As is well known to his admirers, he went through a long period of ten years when he rejected all religions and was a votary of pure reason. Eventually he regained his faith in religion in general and Islam in particular, some might say with a vengeance. Be that as it may, he gives a vivid and honest account of those states of mind in the book Apbiti. According to him his faith in religion returned with his readings in Buddhist and Hindu texts, including the Bhagawad Gita, and his return to Islam was very much facilitated by his chance discovery of the English translation of the Qur’an by “Muhammad Ali Lahori Ahmadi (in common parlance Qadiani).”  (That was, incidentally, the first English translation by any Muslim.)

This is what he wrote: I impatiently pulled it out from the cabinet and began to read, and, God be praised, the more I read the more my faith increased … May Allah give that Muhammad Ali a place in Paradise [karwaT karwaT jannat de]. What he believed about the Mirza [Ghulam Ahmad] Sahib [the founder of the sect] is of no concern to me. Was he right or was he wrong, I don’t care. I can’t help but tell my personal experience, for it was he who hammered in the final nail into the coffin of my disbelief and rejection (kufr wa irtidad).” (Apbiti, Lucknow, 1978, p. 254.) Surely, not one of the worthies mentioned above can claim to have served Islam similarly. -- C.M. Naim

God did not create the universe, Stephen Hawking revealed yesterday. In the flurry of publicity preceding his new book, The Grand Design, to be published next week, he does some serious dissing of the Almighty, declaring him/her/it irrelevant. The point is, he says, that our universe followed inevitably from the laws of nature. But, we might ask, where did they come from? It is perhaps a bit rich for Hawking to make God redundant after granting him/her/it a celebrity cameo at the end of his multi-million selling A Brief History of Time. In his famous conclusion to the book, Hawking wrote that if scientists could find the most fundamental laws of nature "then we should know the mind of God". To be fair, he was writing metaphorically – we all know what he meant. -- Graham Farmello

The attack structure against Muslims in particular is fairly simple. You begin with the game of “six degrees of Bin Laden.” In this game, you connect a Muslim you don’t like through a connect-the-dots scenario to Bin Laden. For example, did you know that the Cordoba Initiative sent election monitors to Sudan, and Bin Laden was once believed to have been in Sudan? It is a game that trades in absurdity and conspiracy theories. The other approach is to take quotes out of context and use them to prove that the speaker or author is duplicitous. The term for that is now “Sherroding.” Then, finally, is the ever popular and constant smearcasting, where one just hurls mud and hopes one does not get called on the misinformation. -- Hussein Rashid

The issue is not of communalism or secularism. It is about the Rule of Law. Do Indian politicians believe in the Rule of Law or not? The answer is that they do only when they can use it as a stick to beat their opponents with. This issue will not go away. When the problem of Babri Masjid comes up, we will have to face it. The VHP/RSS consider that the location of the Masjid on Ram Janmabhoomi is a fundamentally aggressive act by the Muslims on the Hindu ‘nation’, although it may have been done five hundred years ago. The historicity of Ramchandra cannot be questioned nor can we point out similar destruction of Buddhist places of worship and their conversion into Hindu temples ,for example the Jagannath temple at Puri. We need another approach.

The issue of mandir/masjid was live in the 1980s and early 1990s when India was unsure of itself. Two prime ministers had been assassinated by then and there had been an economic crisis. Now, there is a new generation ready to vote. India is a success story and the future is bright. Does new India care about a 16th century dispute being revived in the 21st century? This is the issue which needs to be settled not in a court of law but by a verdict of the people of India. I propose we hold a nationwide referendum on the mandir/masjid issue. Let the nation decide whether we need continuing strife on this question or whether—as I would like us to—consecrate the ground with a multi-faith site of worship. -- Meghnad Desai

Will Pakistan survive?
Zubeida Mustafa

FOR some time now — especially since the electronic media was unwittingly liberated by the military government of Gen Pervez Musharraf — cynics and pessimists have been writing off Pakistan.

Since the closing days of July when devastating floods brought large chunks of the country under water, the question being raised by numerous analysts and commentators is how long would Pakistan survive. Zubeida Mustafa

The much maligned security forces have had to bear the brunt not only of protests and stone pelting but daily abuse for more than two months. The CRPF, more out of place in Kashmir than Dantewada, is not suited to patrol the streets of downtown Srinagar; they would not only not understand the Kashmiri psyche, but the language as well.

Policing in Srinagar city and the other towns needs to be undertaken by J& K Police, with the CRPF only in assistance...

Fatigue and depression inevitably sets in in such situations and the forces on the ground must be wondering how much longer they have to be at the receiving end, now that everyone is gradually acknowledging that Kashmir is not a law and order but a political problem. -- A S Dulat


There is a subtler, deeper satisfaction to be drawn from the knowledge that there is no easy escape for certain perpetrators of mass murder and war crimes, no quick way out via a plane crash or by being hung from a lamp- post. It’s in exactly this way that I want Narendra Modi to have a very long and, at least from now on, very painful life.

It’s beautiful watching the beehive of evidence suddenly start to buzz and release its successive, stinging swarms of revelations. It’s totally happy- making to see the villains cowering and running, selling each other down the river, stabbing each other in the back, pulling each other back down into the cockroach- pit as one after the other of them tries to climb out. As an Indian I’ve been waiting for this to happen for eight years, but as a Gujarati it’s felt more like eighteen.

All through this time we’ve known that Modi and his gang of ministers were responsible for mass slaughter in 2002. -- Ruchir Joshi

If this is the case, Modi and his natural constituency do not believe in such ‘ trivial’ institutions as the Indian Constitution.

Democracy only means mobilising the masses in order to come to power.

Neither is the idea of a formal and impersonal rule of law of any consequence.

Everything is personalised; everything can be twisted to suit political expediency of one kind or the other.

Therefore, when Modi imputes that the demand to take cases against his government and ministers out of Gujarat is an assault on the judicial system, it is just another rhetorical point coming from a rabble- rouser.

The truth is that Modi has politicised the police and the criminal investigation system to an extent where the judiciary cannot function and hope to deliver justice. The suggestion by Modi that the Centre and the CBI were acting as if Gujarat was not a part of India is ironically true. While large sections of the Indian middle class admire Modi, the rest of India has not gone the way of Gujarat. -- Jyotirmaya Sharma

Pakistani foreign minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi was undiplomatic in mentioning Mr. Pillai's unhelpful remarks in the same breath as Lashkar-e-Taiba chief Hafiz Saeed's inflammatory speeches against India. But people on the Indian side need to ask what the home secretary hoped to achieve by saying the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate of the Pakistan army had been involved in 26/11 “from the beginning till the end.” Indian investigators had questioned Lashkar operative David Coleman Headley well before Mr. Chidambaram and Mr. Pillai held talks with their Pakistani counterparts in Islamabad last month. One can only presume this question of ISI involvement “from the beginning till the end” was raised by them with Rehman Malik. -- Siddharth Varadarajan

Iran's Hanging Judge
Omid Memarian

A human rights lawyer in Tehran, speaking on condition of anonymity, said, "What they have in common is that they impose sentences that do not correspond with the crime committed; they ignore the defence case put by defendants and their lawyers; they approve indictments that have no legal basis; they are unfamiliar with the law and legal matters; and they undeniably come out with erroneous rulings."

Salavati is somewhat better known than his two colleagues. Millions of people remember his face from televised trials where he sat in judgement over hundreds of defendants.

At least 12 death sentences are believed to have been passed against alleged participants in the protests that followed the June 2009 re-election of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as president, and Salavati was responsible for half of these, winning him the grim nickname "Judge of Death". -- Omid Memarian

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  • dear mr. samnakay, though this response is not directed to your last post, i forgot to include...
    ( By hats off )
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  • mr kw nawaz claims that scientists cannot know everything. i am wondering which scientist...
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  • The question is whether they are good or reliable primary sources. And when did...
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