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Islamic Ideology (17 Sep 2019 NewAgeIslam.Com)



The Story of Creation in the Qur’an Converges with the Theory of Evolution


By Naseer Ahmed, New Age Islam

17 September 2019

The story of creation of Adam and Eve in the Quran is covered in my article:

Was Allah Unjust in Creating Adam and Favouring His Progeny Over All His Creation?

Allah says in the Qur’an verse 10:37,  “This Qur´an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.”

It is in the fuller explanation or in the detailing that the story of creation in the Qur’an is different from the story in the Bible, a fact that is not known to many Muslims who have never read the Quran, but know the story from the Bible from their exposure to Western education and from English films. Islam also spread among the Christians and Jews and they have carried their traditions into Islam and many Muslims who have read the Qur’an in Arabic also pay less attention to the detail, and take the Biblical version as correct. For example, both in the Bible and the Qur’an, Allah says that He created the Universe in 6 days. In the Qur’an a further detail is added that the heavenly bodies including the earth were created in two days, and then the earth was made habitable and provided with all that is necessary to sustain life over the next 4 days. There are several verses that say that a day that Allah speaks of is a thousand years by our reckoning in one context and fifty thousand years in another context. In the context of creation, we are not told what is meant by a day. Suffice it is for us to understand however, that a day means a very long period of time by our reckoning, and therefore 6 days refers to 6 phases. However, this is not recognized by many commentators and exegetes, who take it as our day consisting of 24 hours, just as the readers of the Bible do.

Now what would those brought up on stories from the Bible make of the verse 76:1 which says: “Has there not been over Man a long period of Time, when he was nothing - (not even) mentioned?” The Arabic word “dahr” means a very long period of time greater than fifty thousand years. Now if the Theory of Evolution is correct in saying that beings of the genus Homo made their appearance 2.5 million years ago, but their existence was undistinguished from every other organism for much of this period except for the last 70,000 years or so, this could be exactly what the verse is saying. The meaning of the verse becomes clear, when faced with facts from Science that make it clear, but if one reads it with the belief that Adam and Eve were the first human beings, it makes no sense at all, and indeed every commentator and exegete has struggled to explain it.

Also consider the verse 2:30 Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."

Commentators and exegetes have struggled to provide a satisfactory explanation as to how the Angels knew that this new creation will make mischief and shed blood. It ceases to be a mystery when we know and accept, that humans pre-existed the creation of Adam, and were given to make mischief and shed blood, and therefore the Angels were apprehensive of this new creation of the same genus Homo. Now for what is different about this new creation and its correspondence with what we learn from the history of mankind, read the article cited above.

The Concept of the Mitochondrial Eve from Biology

In 1987, a worldwide survey of human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) made the astounding discovery that "all mitochondrial DNAs stem from one woman" and that she probably lived around 200,000 years ago in Africa.

The DNA located in the cytoplasm, organelles called mitochondria comes only from the mother and therefore our mitochondrial DNA is identical to that of our mother and if the same is identical to what is found in every living human being, it establishes that all the living human beings today, trace back their lineage to a single woman whom we may call the “Mitochondrial Eve”.

The Age of the Mitochondrial Eve

The age of the Mitochondrial Eve is calculated based on the assumption that the common ancestor of chimps and humans lived 5 million years ago and that both nuclear DNA and mitochondrial DNA mutate at a constant rate.  For example, if in a certain mitochondrial gene, there are 70 differences in the genetic code between a human and a chimpanzee, then the mutation rate is assumed to be 70/5,000,000  mutations per year and if in the human population today,  an average of three mutations is found, then the calculated age of the Mitochondrial Eve is 3*5/70 million years = 214,000 years. However, if we did not evolve from the ancestors of the chimps, then the difference between the genetic code between the human and chimpanzee has remained a constant and this does not give us the mutation rate at all. The correct mutation rate must therefore be based on a study of human beings over the ages.

In 1991, an interesting study was conducted by the Russians who exhumed a mass grave site that was thought to have the last Russian Tsar who was killed in the revolution. They compared the mitochondrial DNA of living relatives with the DNA in the bones of the nine skeletons found in the grave site. The DNA matched but a mutation had occurred which was unexpected, as a mutation based on the calculated rate described above, is unexpected and highly improbable.

Another study covered 357 individuals from 134 different but related families. In this study, they were "stunned" to find that there were 10 different mutations. This gave a rate of change of mutation that is roughly twenty-fold higher than based on the assumption that we evolved from the common ancestor with the Chimpanzee over 5 million years.

In yet another study of the genetic history of an Australian family, the D-loop region of the mitochondrial DNA was sequenced for 45 members of a large maternally linked group. In this study, the rate of change was found to be 1 mutation in every 25 to 40 generations.

Using this much faster mutation rate from the two studies as a basis for a new mitochondrial clock speed, the “Mitochondrial Eve” can be calculated to have lived a mere 10,000 to 50,000 years ago, rather than 200,000 years ago.  This may also disprove the theory of evolution from the apes.

The age of the "Mitochondrial Eve" and the "Y-chromosomal Adam"  (The most recent male ancestor from whom all living beings today have descended) is subject to revisions based on further studies, and is likely to be much less than the estimate of 200,000 years, but what is clearly established is that every human being living today, traces his lineage to a single "Mitochondrial Eve" and the "Y-chromosomal Adam".

How Does The “Mitochondrial Eve” Move Forward In Time?

 

Let us call the woman who occupies the position of the present day “Mitochondrial Eve" Martha, and the "Y-chromosomal Adam”, Jonas. Let us also assume that Martha had only one daughter who in turn had only one daughter and who in turn had two daughters named Sara and Para. Then all of the 7 billion people today, trace their ancestry to one of these two great, great, granddaughters of Martha. Now if Sara is to become the “Mitochondrial Eve", then the lineage Para must become extinct. What chance that a lineage that is nearly as old as the age of the "Mitochondrial Eve" estimated to be between 50 thousand to 200,00 years old becomes extinct? Although theoretically, this is possible, it is extremely improbable. Lineages that run deep also spread wide and have the least probability of going extinct. There is therefore little chance based on probability that the position of the "Mitochondrial Eve" and "Y-chromosomal Adam" will move forward unless……. this is discussed later

 

Why Is It More Likely That The Mitochondrial Eve And The Y-Chromosome Adam Were A New Species Superior To The Rest?

 

Studies of the nuclear DNA indicate that the size of the ancient human population never dropped below tens of thousands.  Martha and Jonas therefore had at least 10,000 brothers and 10,000 sisters. Then what explains that the lineage represented by the approximately 10,000 or more sisters/female cousins of Martha, have gone extinct but the lineage of Martha has grown to 7 billion? The only explanation is that Martha enjoyed some great genetic superiority not shared by her remaining sisters/cousins, or to speak plainly, the fact that Martha, the "Mitochondrial Eve" was of a different species. The progeny of this superior species then wiped out every other inferior species making them extinct over a period. This is true even if inter breeding produced fertile children. In such a case, it means that only children from the lineage of both Martha and Jonas had superior survival skills and no other lineages including the mixed ones. Biology favours interbreeding over inbreeding and if all the human beings living today are a result of inbreeding within a single lineage, it is further proof of this lineage being a different species from every other lineage.

 

Why The Mitochondrial Eve And The Y-Chromosome Adam Can Move Forward In Time Only With The Creation Of A New Species Starting With A Single Pair And Propagating Downward And Not Through Gradual And Widespread Evolution.

 

Let us imagine that today, one couple produce a male and a female that is genetically superior to all other humans and a new species. This new species cannot produce offspring with other humans except between themselves although they are alike physically and in many other ways. The siblings who we call Beth and John mate and multiply and their progeny co-exist with other humans for say 30,000 years, after which their population grows large enough to control the entire population of humans. At this point, they carry out a systematic genocide over the next 10,000 years to completely wipe out every lineage except their own. Beth and John now become the new "Mitochondrial Eve" and "Y-chromosomal Adam" of the entire population displacing the earlier one over a short period of 10,000 years of genocide.

 

However, if we assume a slow, uniform and spread out process of evolution, then every lineage of Martha and Jonas evolve simultaneously, and therefore Martha and Jonas remain the "Mitochondrial Eve"  and "Y-chromosomal Adam" of every human being even after this new phase of evolution that makes every human being much superior to any man that exists today.

 

Weakness in the Theory of Evolution

 

The very fact that the "Mitochondrial Eve" and the "Y-chromosomal Adam" do not go as far back as the common ancestors we share with the chimpanzees 5 million years ago or even to the first appearance of the species of the genus Homo 2.5 million years ago or even to the first appearance of Homo Sapiens 300,000 years ago, is therefore proof of they being a new species and the story of slow, gradual, spread out evolution over thousands of years, simply hogwash. This does not preclude the possibility that the “Mitochondrial Eve" and the "Y-chromosomal Adam" themselves trace back their ancestry to the very first human being 2.5 million years ago, or to a common ancestor with Chimpanzees 5 million years ago. What it does prove however, is that only one lineage has survived which strongly suggests that evolution consisted of only one evolved pair propagating its own kind downwards and other members of the previous species have gone extinct. There is no reason why if the apes still exist, other tens of thousands of lineages should not have survived. They would have survived if our species had not destroyed all other species because they were inferior to us but competed with us for common resources such as land and food. Genetic memory of such genocide is still carried by us which is why genocides are still common and why racism and casteism still exists.

 

Now if we did evolve from the apes, then why did the evolved humans and their progeny not wipe out the apes to extinction as the progeny of the "Mitochondrial Eve" and the "Y-chromosomal Adam" have done to every other lineage of the more than ten thousand sisters of the "Mitochondrial Eve"?  Our genetic memory also does not make us either more hostile or more compassionate towards the apes in comparison with other animals which belie the theory of evolution from the ape. The very clear and categorical verses of the Quran which say that some rebellious people were transformed into apes and swine make more sense. The fact that apes and swine genetically resemble us the most may therefore not be either mere coincidence or because we evolved from either of these animals.

  

Mutations within a species go on continuously without producing a new species. A new species is a quantum leap in genetic mutation which starts with just one couple. It does not matter whether you say this is as a result of the evolutionary process or creation by God. The very idea of just one pair starting a new species is anathema to the theory of evolution as it fails to explain why the remaining stock from which this pair evolved failed to evolve likewise, or why there are apes even today while some evolved into human beings, or why there are no human beings from the lineages of the more than ten thousand sisters of the “Mitochondrial Eve” if they were of the same species as the “Mitochondrial Eve”?

Does Creation Take Place Only In Heaven?

Creation of Allah can and does take place on this earth and not necessarily in Heaven. The Qur’an likens the birth of Jesus Christ with the creation of Adam and it took place on this earth and he was born to an earthly woman but without an earthly father. Jesus Christ was therefore not from the lineage of the Y-Chromosome Adam. If he had children and his lineage survived, then we would have had two populations – one tracing their ancestry to the Y-Chromosome Adam who lived 50,000 to 200,000 years ago, and another to Jesus Christ 2000 years ago. Was Jesus another species? Possibly, because he had powers that no man or prophet possessed before or after him. If Jesus was a single person of a distinct species but born to a daughter of Adam and Eve, it means an evolved species can come from an existing one and therefore, the theory of evolution does not contradict the Quran.

A comparison between different species is a measure of how similar the species are in their physiology and their molecular biology but not necessarily a proof of evolution from these species while the same cannot be ruled out either, except through a more detailed analysis as carried out in the article.

Conclusion

The story of creation in the Qur’an is consistent with the confirmed findings of science and history. There is neither a need to reject the story from the Qur’an or reject the Theory of Evolution. The stories converge as they should, if both are true.

Naseer Ahmed is an Engineering graduate from IIT Kanpur and is an independent IT consultant after having served in both the Public and Private sector in responsible positions for over three decades. He is a frequent contributor to NewAgeIslam.com

URL: http://www.newageislam.com/islamic-ideology/naseer-ahmed,-new-age-islam/the-story-of-creation-in-the-qur’an-converges-with-the-theory-of-evolution/d/119764

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TOTAL COMMENTS:-   17


  • Naseer sb.,
    The important thing is not whether you are quoting from the Bible or the Quran. The important thing is that you are bringing in irrelevancies in the discussion, which is something that you often do when you have lost an argument.
    Your argument, "If Jesus birth is not an allegory but fact, then so is Adam's creation as described in the Quran," is invalid and even idiotic. It seems you just can't get it into your head that Jesus is a historic figure whereas Adam is not.
    Verse 76:1 simply says, "Has there not been over Man a long period of Time, when he was nothing - (not even) mentioned?"
    "Long period of time" - yes! But for what? Is it about how long man had existed before Adam? It would be sheer chicanery to take that meaning. It is about "when he was nothing (not even mentioned)". If read with 76:2, it would mean the nine months in one's mother's womb and before that as  gametes in the bodies of one's father and mother. Most scholars seem to agree that the meaning of 76:1 is not clear, but you  seem to be so confident of yourself when you take a totally absurd meaning from 76:1 and make it suit your pre-Adam Homo sapiens theory. It seems you just like to make a fool of yourself!
    You said, "From the Cognitive Revolution onwards, historical narratives replace biological theories."
    That is totally senseless. The historical narratives are, at the most, only 5000 years old, whereas the Cognitive Revolution occurred more than 40,000 years ago. How can you be so very confused?
    Your quoting 76:1 in this respect is totally asinine as I showed above.
    You said, "They (the angels) questioned God as to why he was about to create another creation that would shed blood and make mischief." 
    The angels said, "

    "Will You place upon it (the earth) one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" There is no mention in the whole of Quran of any pre-Adam humans who caused corruption or shed blood. Please don't make things up. You have done enough of it already!


    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 10/16/2019 2:33:57 PM



  • There is nothing new in GM sb’s comment. He is simply repeating himself as he always does.

     GM sb says :Your quotation from the Bible about the birth of Jesus has nothing to do with what we are discussing.  You can't win an argument by just throwing dust in people's eyes.

     Why would I even quote the Bible? The ignoramus that GM sb is, he does not even know that I have quoted from the Quran and not the Bible. The Quote from the Quran clearly compares Jesus miraculous birth with the birth of Adam. If Jesus birth is not an allegory but fact, then so is Adam’s creation as described in the Quran. This is to counter GM sb’s argument that Adam’s creation as described in the Quran  is not a fact but an allegory.

     GM sb says :You said, "as per 76:1 human beings have existed for a very long period." 

    You are lying. The verse says nothing about the length of time human beings have existed. Please don't make things up.

     GM sb is going round in circles repeating what has already been answered and explained. The verse uses the word “dahr” which means a very long period of time, the beginning and end of which is unknown to man and also unknowable with any degree of precision.

     GM sb says: You say, "History begins with the Cognitive Revolution is what Science tells us."

    No, science does not say that. The span of history is only 5,000 years. The cognitive revolution occurred between 70,000 and 40,000 years ago.

    Until the Cognitive Revolution, the doings of all human species belonged to the realm of biology, or, if you so prefer, prehistory. From the Cognitive Revolution onwards, historical narratives replace biological theories as our primary means of explaining the development of Homo sapiens. (Harari)

     GM sb :You say, "the Quran tells us that history beings with the creation of Adam."

    False! The Quran does not say anything about the beginning of history.

    The Quran says in verse 76:1 that man’s existence was not even worth a mention for a very long time. This has to be before Adam because the creation of Adam is mentioned and also the stories of his progeny. There are no stories of man before Adam in the Quran.

     GM sb says:You said, "They (the angels) knew because humans already existed and were given to mischief and shed blood."

    The Quran does not say that. You read too much in what the angels said. When God informed the angels that he was going to put a vice-regent on Earth, they questioned whether the human would cause bloodshed and damage, but God told them that He knew what they know not. Please do not lie about what the Quran says.

     You are lying about the Quran. The Angels did not question God whether the human would cause bloodshed and spread mischief. They questioned God as to why he was about to create another creation that would shed blood and make mischief. How did they know that what God was about to create would also shed blood and make mischief? The obvious answer is from the behaviour of every species of humans that pre-existed the creation of Adam.


    By Naseer Ahmed - 10/16/2019 2:50:42 AM



  • Naseer sb.,
    Please stop trying to deceive people. 
    Your quotation from the Bible about the birth of Jesus has nothing to do with what we are discussing.  You can't win an argument by just throwing dust in people's eyes.
    You said, "as per 76:1 human beings have existed for a very long period." 
    You are lying. The verse says nothing about the length of time human beings have existed. Please don't make things up.
    You say, "History begins with the Cognitive Revolution is what Science tells us."
    No, science does not say that. The span of history is only 5,000 years. The cognitive revolution occurred between 70,000 and 40,000 years ago.
    You say, "the Quran tells us that history beings with the creation of Adam."
    False! The Quran does not say anything about the beginning of history.
    You said, "They (the angels) knew because humans already existed and were given to mischief and shed blood."
    The Quran does not say that. You read too much in what the angels said. When God informed the angels that he was going to put a vice-regent on Earth, they questioned whether the human would cause bloodshed and damage, but God told them that He knew what they know not. Please do not lie about what the Quran says.
    I quote other exegetes to show how they differ from you, not to show my agreement with them.
    How can you tell so many lies and make so many blunders just in one comment?

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 9/28/2019 1:59:36 PM



  • From my article: Was Allah Unjust in Creating Adam and Favouring His Progeny Over All His Creation?

    Allah created Jesus Christ without a father although there was no such necessity. This was only as an example for man to comprehend and accept the truth of Adam’s creation.

    (3:47) She (Mary) said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, ´Be,´ and it is!

    (3:59) The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

     4:171 “Messiah Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word (Kalimatuhu), which He bestowed on Mary, and a Rūḥun proceeding from Him.

    In the birth of Christ is proof of Adam’s creation. Jesus Christ was also unique in that he could speak from birth and was a prophet from birth unlike any other prophet. These unique abilities are the effect of Jesus being born like Adam from the Ruh of Allah. Not surprisingly, Jesus did not marry and have children or pass on his genes as it was not in Allah’s plans to have any other human like Jesus. As further proof of Allah’s powers of creation apart from evolution, he made Jesus demonstrate creation:

    (3:49) "And (appoint him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "´I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah´s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah´s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;

    It is also not surprising, that only Jesus, whose birth was doubly unique by being the son of a human and also by the Ruh of Allah, who alone had such powers among the prophets.

     I am glad that GM sb has finally understood and accepted that verses 2:230-34 give no clue as to how the Angels knew that the new man that Allah was about to create would shed blood and spread mischief. They knew because humans already existed and were given to mischief and shed blood and therefore, they wondered what Allah meant by creating another of the same genus Homo and making him His viceregent. How else would they have known?

     All the workers in the field of Mitochondrial Eve and Adam are agreed that their work has no connection with and does not lend support to the theory of creationism found in the Bible according to which Adam was the first human being. Mitochondrial Eve and Y chromosome Adam were not the first human beings. The Quranic story while affirming the Biblical story adds details and as per 76:1 human beings have existed for a very long period the beginning of which and end of which are not known to man and will forever remain a matter of conjecture, speculation and estimation during which their existence was unlike that of any other organism and therefore not worthy of mention. That is what is meant by “dahr”. History begins with the “Cognitive Revolution” is what Science tells us and the Quran tells us that history beings with the creation of Adam.

     Now, if you don't have anything new to say, stop wasting everyone's time. Also, don't waste everyone's time by quoting what you do not even agree with simply because you have nothing else to counter what I have said but feel impelled to keep arguing nevertheless.


    By Naseer Ahmed - 9/27/2019 11:49:44 PM



  • Naseer sb.
    The stories of Adam and Christ are not comparable. Adam is not a historical figure. Christ is a historical figure, but the stories of his virginal birth and resurrection are matters of faith.
    You said, "Note that verse 76:1 speaks about an existence not worth mentioning and not about non-existence."
    "Existence not worth mentioning" does not yield the meaning "pre-Adam humans". Do not take liberties with the verses.
    You said, "the Angels knew that the new creation would shed blood and make mischief from the behaviour of humans before the creation of Adam."
    The verse does not say that. You should not take whatever meaning you want from the verses.
    You say, "The simple fact that every living human being today has the same Mitochondrial mother  and Y-chromosome father who go back in time much shorter than when Sapiens first appeared, is proof that only one man and one woman either evolved or were created with the genetic mutation that caused the Cognitive Revolution".
    All the workers in the field of Mitochondrial Eve and Adam are agreed that their work has no connection with and does not lend support to the theory of creationism. It is highly irresponsible of you to use their work to support your untenable arguments.
    By the way, if I quote an exegete, it is just to illustrate what the prevailing view is.  It does not mean I agree with their views. They are not better than or worse than yourself.
    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 9/27/2019 12:22:03 PM



  • GM sb, why do you say the story of creation of Adam in the Quran is allegorical? What about the birth of Christ then which is compared with the creation of Adam? Is that also allegorical?  If the story of Jesus birth is allegorical, what is the fact then and who is his father? 

     GM sb gives the explanation of some exegete who believes Adam was the first man. What else do you expect such a person to say? Note that verse 76:1 speaks about an existence not worth mentioning and not about non-existence. This exegete speaks about non-existence because he does not believe that humans existed before Adam. The second verse is related to the first verse. Not only has a long period passed over Insaan/man during which his existence was not worthy of mention but even today, when man has conquered even outer space, he has a humble beginning in the sperm.

     As I have said repeatedly, the Angels knew that the new creation would shed blood and make mischief from the behaviour of humans before the creation of Adam. There is no explanation to be found in verses 230-234 for this.

     The simple fact that every living human being today has the same Mitochondrial mother  and Y-chromosome father who go back in time much shorter than when Sapiens first appeared, is proof that only one man and one woman either evolved or were created with the genetic mutation that caused the “Cognitive Revolution”. While the Mitochondrial mother  and Y-chromosome father had tens of thousands of siblings, their lineages did not survive because they failed to “evolve”,  and being weaker, were wiped out.  GM sb’s theory of continuous evolution spread over 40,000 years would result in everyone evolving and not just one pair and if so, we would have had tens of thousands of Mitochondrial mothers and Y-chromosome fathers and not just one.

     With just one pair to start with, it takes thousands of years for this new species to become numerically significant and make a difference.  Did GM sb expect the children of Adam to travel to the Moon and other heavenly bodies in space crafts that they built?


    I was looking for some interesting unexplored questions to be raised which could become the subject of the next article but there is nothing new that has come up. GM sb  is going around the same points from the previous article a discussion on which produced this article. He will continue going around the same points endlessly.

    The next article is likely to be on the subject of how false beliefs have led exegetes to give unsatisfactory and incorrect explanations. 

    By Naseer Ahmed - 9/27/2019 4:06:39 AM



  • Naseer sb.,
    I have already said more than once that the story of Adam and Eve is allegorical and is helpful in understanding the relationship between man and God, whereas the  scientific account is an attempt at evidence-based understanding of the origins of the species. Your seeing the same story in both accounts is your own delusion based on your playing fast and loose with facts.

    The meaning that you take from the verse, "Has there [not] come upon man a period of time when he was not a thing [even] mentioned?" is totally imaginary and a sad reflection on your style of taking whatever meaning you want to take from a given verse. It is true that 76:1 is not very clear, but as I said before, a good way to try to understand it is to relate it to the next verse, 76:2, which says, "Indeed, We created man from a sperm-drop mixture that We may try him; and We made him hearing and seeing." Sensible exegetes do just that. Here is an example: "What is meant to be said is that in this immensely long span of time there has passed a long period when human race was altogether non-existent. Then a time came in it when a species called man was created, and in the same period a time has passed on every person when a beginning was made to bring him into existence from nothingness. The third sentence, “When he was not a thing (even) to be mentioned” implies that a part of him existed in the form of a microscopic gene in the sperm drop of the father and a part in the form of a microscopic ovum in the mother."

    Just because a verse is not perfectly clear does not mean you can take whatever meaning that you want to take.

    You said, "What Harari cannot place precisely is when. The cognitive revolution took place anywhere between 70 to 30 thousand years ago is what he says."

    That is false. Nowhere is Harari looking for a precise time of the occurrence of "cognitive revolution". The very idea of a precise point in time for it to occur is ridiculous.

    You said, "no prophets were sent before Adam and certainly not to the people over the very long period of time, when their existence was not even worthy of any mention." But earlier you had said, "The effects of the Cognitive Revolution have of course unfolded over a long period . Over this period, there were 124000 prophets sent to all nations ". As I have told you several times already, your mixing the Quranic account with the scientific account only confuses you and makes you look foolish. It does not solve any problems. It only creates more problems.

    By the way, your question, "How did the Angels know that Adam and his progeny will cause mischief and bloodshed?" still sounds idiotic to me. I gave the best answer that I could give, but if you let me know what your answer is, I shall certainly try to respond to it.

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 9/24/2019 11:07:50 AM



  • GM sb says: “You think 76:1 is about "pre-Adam humans", but 76:1 does not say so. Your taking such a meaning when there is no hint in the Quran to support such an assertion is fool-hardy and irresponsible.”

     The very long period of time, the precise beginning and end of which is unknown to man and will remain unknown except for conjectures and estimates that vary widely, when man’s existence was not even worthy of mention, certainly does not relate to Adam and his progeny who are mentioned in the Quran. Why would Allah mention Adam and his progeny in the Quran and at the same time say that their existence is not worthy of mention? It is certainly about the past and before Adam. Not to take the very obvious meaning is fool-hardy and irresponsible and precisely describes GM sb’s own behaviour.

      GM sb says: You say, "The Cognitive Revolution kick-started history about 70,000 years ago" is what Harahari says but does not place this occurrence precisely and says it happened between 70,000 and 30,000 years ago."

     That is false. Harari never suggests that there was one precise point that can be called the beginning of the Cognitive Revolution. He is talking about a process that took 40,000 years to unfold.

     What GM sb says is false. What Harari cannot place precisely is when. The cognitive revolution took place anywhere between 70 to 30 thousand years ago is what he says. He is very clear about what constitutes the Cognitive Revolution. It was the vastly different nature of our language and means of communication. This he says was caused by a genetic mutation. Languages are not static and keep developing. The vocabulary keeps growing with every new subject and discovery. Old languages die and new ones take their place. Every human child however is born with the capacity to learn any of the world’s languages and this has remained a constant. The ability of every other species to communicate has also remained a constant. This is genetically determined and it is this ability caused by the required genetic mutation that caused the cognitive revolution. So the situation is binary. You didn’t have this ability prior to the Cognitive Revolution and you were like any other animal and you have it after the Cognitive Revolution. There was therefore a precise moment.
    GM sb says :”You say, "Over this period, there were 124000 prophets sent to all nations."

    This again is false. The Quran does not say when these 124000 prophets were sent. Your saying that they were sent during the 40,000 years when the Cognitive Revolution took place is your own invention. You mix up Quranic information with Harari's book! This is either naivete or an attempt to deceive.”

     Surely, no prophets were sent before Adam and certainly not to the people over the very long period of time, when their existence was not even worthy of any mention. It is GM sb who is either naïve or trying to deceive with his foolish arguments.

     GM sb says “You lie when you say I dismiss the story of creation in the Quran, but then you do lie habitually. All I am doing is to keep the Quranic story and the scientific account separate. Your attempt to mix them up is thoughtless and condemnable.”

     Why do you keep them separate unless you consider one or both to be untrue? And why when they converge and perfectly complement each other?

     GM sb also has no answer to the question I asked (How did the Angels know that Adam and his progeny will cause mischief and bloodshed?) although he pretends that verses 2:230 to 234 provide the answer when they don’t.

    The correct answer is that they knew from the behaviour of the human beings that preceded Adam.

    GM sb will not give up and continue to keep going around the same points. I have answered all his questions and comments comprehensively. This is my last comment on  the subject.


    By Naseer Ahmed - 9/24/2019 2:05:29 AM



  • If you do not dismiss the story of creation in the Quran, then tell us how exactly the same story is reflected in history reconstructed from the remains of the past and in Science?


    By Naseer Ahmed - 9/24/2019 12:56:42 AM



  • Naseer sb.,
    You think 76:1 is about "pre-Adam humans", but 76:1 does not say so. Your taking such a meaning when there is no hint in the Quran to support such an assertion is fool-hardy and irresponsible.
    You say, "The Cognitive Revolution kick-started history about 70,000 years ago" is what Harahari says but does not place this occurrence precisely and says it happened between 70,000 and 30,000 years ago."

    That is false. Harari never suggests that there was one precise point that can be called the beginning of the Cognitive Revolution. He is talking about a process that took 40,000 years to unfold.

    You say, "Over this period, there were 124000 prophets sent to all nations."
    This again is false. The Quran does not say when these 124000 prophets were sent. Your saying that they were sent during the 40,000 years when the Cognitive Revolution took place is your own invention. You mix up Quranic information with Harari's book! This is either naivete or an attempt to deceive.
    You lie when you say I dismiss the story of creation in the Quran, but then you do lie habitually. All I am doing is to keep the Quranic story and the scientific account separate. Your attempt to mix them up is thoughtless and condemnable.

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 9/23/2019 12:38:52 PM



  • Why would verse 76:1 talk of Adam and Eve when it is not about them? It talks about Insaan or about human beings and says that over the Insaan, a very long period has passed, when his existence was not worthy of any mention. This period is before history, and with Adam begins not only history, but also mention of human beings in the Scriptures.  His existence is now worth being mentioned and recorded as history as well as worth sending Messengers to with guidance from Allah.

    The period after the Cognitive Revolution is when history begins because before this, there is nothing worth mentioning.  “...the Cognitive Revolution kick-started history about 70,000 years ago” is what Harahari says but does not place this occurrence precisely and says it happened between 70,000 and 30,000 years ago.  The effects of the Cognitive Revolution have of course unfolded over a long period . Over this period, there were 124000 prophets sent to all nations to progressively raise humanity to a level when the last Testament, the Quran could be revealed. This was only 1400 years ago. The Agricultural revolution took place only 12,000 years ago and the Scientific Revolution got under way only 500 years ago.

    There were people in the Prophet’s times and in the times of even Noah, who dismissed the stories told by the Prophets based on the revelations as “the fables of the ancients”. So there is nothing new about GM sb dismissing the story of creation in the Quran in a similar manner. For the believers however, the story is true, and when our history is reconstructed from the remains of the past, the story will prove to be true as it has. So, why wouldn’t a believer reconcile what the Quran says with history?

    GM sb can never prove that I have ever deviated from the literal meaning of any verse because I haven’t. I have of course pointed out how the scholars have distorted the meanings of words used in the Quran. He is happy with the bigot’s version of the Quran because it makes it simpler for him to reject the Quran.


    By Naseer Ahmed - 9/23/2019 4:17:19 AM



  • Naseer sb.,
    You accuse me of not accepting the  Quran for what it is. However it is you who tries to embellish the Quran with all the new scientific discoveries! Are you ashamed of the Quran as it is? Is not lying about what the Quran says a sin? Should it not be enough for us to accept science as a gift of God instead of making false claims about what is in the Quran? And where do you get the right to call those who point out the error of your ways "atheists"? You should be ashamed of yourself for conducting yourself in such an ignoble fashion.

    You say that you take literal meaning of the verses and you do not "interpret". That is a lie. You do what is much worse than interpretation. You claim to discover meanings that all the others missed! That is not just charlatanism, it is egotism as well as fraudulence.

    When you say that the Angels knew the behavior of human beings who were already in existence, you lie again. The Quran does not say that there were other human beings in existence when Adam was created. And if the Angels knew that this new creation would make mischief and shed blood, how come God did not know it?

    You say, "Angels do not have feelings." How do you know that? Do you just make things up as you go along. When the Angels said to God, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?", does that not clearly show resentment on their part?
    Let me repeat that your question,  "how did they know that Allah would teach Adam the names/nature of all things and demonstrate his superiority before asking them to prostrate before him even before he had created Adam?"  is a very stupid question. Just read 2:30 to 2:34 and everything will be clear to you. Are you trying to fool people with such stupid questions?

    You produced "more than 20 translations" of verse 76:1 but the surprising thing is that not even one of them makes a reference to Adam and Eve, and none of them make any reference to pre-Adam humans. So for you to take that verse as proof of human existence before Adam is sheer fraud and deceitfulness. 

    Your using the concept of "Cognitive Revolution" to support your half-baked ideas is deplorable. You have been repeatedly implying that the arrival of Adam meant arrival of Cognitive Revolution. Harari on the other hand says the process of Cognitive Revolution took 40,000 years. It seems your premises are all based on self-deception as well as on a desire to deceive others!

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 9/19/2019 1:18:10 PM



  • Gm sb says: “I asked what point were you trying to make by unnecessarily pitting the Quran against science? As I said, "The Quran is for our moral guidance. It is not a science text."

    The Quran is what it is. GM sb cannot accept the Quran for what it is. He is forever trying to tell us to ignore the Quran for one reason or another.

    If the Quran talks about creation, procreation, instinct, consciousness, bestowing Adam and his progeny with Cognitive powers not given to any creation and about pre-historic man and his insignificance, these are subjects to be taken seriously, reflected upon  and discussed. Why is GM sb so uncomfortable with the subject?

    These subjects are misunderstood because the scholars of the past couldn’t make sense of the verses that went against their beliefs uninformed by Science and have become a source of disaffection with the religion among those brought up with western education. It is such people who need to be made to understand how infallible the Quran is on every subject that it touches. I can understand GM sb’s discomfort because he is an atheist who thinks he has good reason to be one but my articles expose the hollowness of his beliefs.

     It is the duty of every Muslim whom Allah has blessed with knowledge to complete the hujjat or present the truth of Allah’s word to all mankind so that they are left with no excuse about not accepting the Quran as Allah’s infallible word. The purpose of revelations and sending of the prophets was to communicate the Message in a coherent fashion and in a manner as completely understood as possible. The commentaries and exegesis of the past scholars fall short of today’s requirements as these are based on a poor knowledge of our world and worse, based on false beliefs about the world as that was the received “wisdom” of their times.

     Those who have been readers of my articles and especially those who have interacted with me on these articles have no excuse to reject the infallible truth of Allah’s word in the Quran. My articles have served a useful purpose even if some have proved to be among “those who will not believe” since it is Allah’s purpose to segregate the sincere believers from “those who will not believe” and this purpose has been served.  

     GM sb says: “You claim to understand the verses better than many exegetes. That is your belief. In fact you take the meaning from the verses that you want to take. That is what makes you a charlatan.”

     I never deviate from the literal meaning of the verses for the simple reason that the literal meaning makes eminent sense. To those without correct knowledge of the world, many of the Quran’s verses that went against the received wisdom of their times, didn’t make sense. They therefore resorted to “interpretations”. I never interpret but stick closely to the literal meaning. It is GM sb who is the charlatan who will look for whatever translation or commentary suits his attack on the Quran.

    GM sb says “When you ask,  "how the Angels knew that this new creation will make mischief and shed blood," are you suggesting that the Angels knew more than God knew? “

    No, what I have said very clearly and explicitly is that they knew from the behaviour of human beings who were already in existence.

     GM sb asks “And are you suggesting that when God asked Angels to prostrate themselves before His new creation, their feelings were not hurt?”

     Angels do not have feelings. They are not human. Neither do they have any choice but to obey whatever Allah commands them to. Your level of ignorance is astounding. It shows that you have never read the complete Quran even once.

     GM sb says “You asked me, "how did they know that Allah would teach Adam the names/nature of all things and demonstrate his superiority before asking them to prostrate before him even before he had created Adam?" That is a very stupid question. Just read 2:30 to 2:34 and everything will be clear to you.”

     If it is clear to GM sb, why cannot he explain it. When cornered he resorts to calling the question he cannot answer “stupid”. Isn’t he the lying and deceitful charlatan?

     GM sb says: “You said, "I have stuck to the literal meaning of the verse (76:1) which is unsurprisingly in conformity with what Science tell us." 

    That is a lie. In no way does 76:1 yield the meaning that you falsely derive. I know that some exegetes, especially Ahmadi scholars, derive the same meaning as you do, but the vast majority of scholars do not derive that meaning, and it is sheer chicanery to derive such a meaning. Please stop playing with the Quran.”

     It is GM sb who is the liar. Here are more than 20 translations that mean the same.

     Abdul Majid Daryabadi                    Surely there hath come upon man a long period of time when he was not a thing worth mentioning.  

    Hamid S. Aziz             Was there not over man a long period of time when he was a thing unremembered (nothing, not worth mention).      

    Shakir             There surely came over man a period of time when he was a thing not worth mentioning.    

    Wahiduddin Khan                 Was there not a period of time when man was nothing worth mentioning?   

    Abdul Hye                  Has there not come over human, a period of time when it was not a thing worth mentioning?  

    Abdel Haleem            Was there not a period of time when man was nothing to speak of ?         

    Ali Ünal                      Did there pass (– and surely there did pass –) over human a stretch of time when he was a thing not mentioned and remembered (as human)?      

    Ali Quli Qara'i            Has there been for man a period of time when he was not anything worthy of mention?

    Safi Kaskas                 Has there come upon the human being a span of time when he was nothing to be mentioned?   

    Yusuf Ali (Orig. 1938)            Has there not been over Man a long period of Time, when he was nothing - (not even) mentioned?    

    Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali                      Has there come upon man a while of (an) era when he was not a thing to be remembered?        

    Muhammad Taqi Usmani                 There has come upon man a period of time in which he was nothing worth mentioning. 

    Shabbir Ahmed                     Has there not passed over man an era when he was not even worth mentioning?      

    Maududi                    Was there a period of time when man was not even worthy of a mention?       

    Ali Bakhtiari Nejad                Did not a period of time come upon the human being that he was nothing to be mentioned?  

    Sher Ali                      There has, certainly, come upon man a period of time when he was not a thing worth mentioning.        

    Rashad Khalifa                      Is it not a fact that there was a time when the human being was nothing to be mentioned?        

    Ahmed Raza Khan (Barelvi)              Undoubtedly, there has come upon man a time when there was no mentioning of his name anywhere.    

    Amatul Rahman Omar                      There did pass over a human being a while of a long space of time when he was not a thing worth mentioning.          

    Dr. Mohammad Tahir-ul-Qadri                    Surely, there has passed over man a period of time when he was not a thing worth mentioning. 

     Non-Muslim and/or Orientalist works

    Arthur John Arberry              Has there come on man a while of time when he was a thing unremembered?       

    George Sale               Did there not pass over man a long space of time; during which he was a thing not worthy of remembrance?  

     GM sb says: “The cognitive revolution took 40000 years to take place and cannot be made to coincide with one event e.g. the creation of Adam. Your attempt to reconcile the Quran with Science is either highly deceitful or unbelievably naive. What is more important, it is so unnecessary.”

     You can even say that it took 14 billion years for the Cognitive revolution to take place and you wouldn’t be wrong. What is your point?  I have consistently nailed the lies and deceit in your arguments and so you are the proven liar and deceiver.  An atheist who is a consistent rejecter of many of the verses of the Quran is hardly in a position to tell what is unnecessary.



    By Naseer Ahmed - 9/19/2019 12:18:00 AM



  • Naseer sb.,
    Whether Allah's six days equal 14 billion years or not is not the question. I asked what point were you trying to make by unnecessarily pitting the Quran against science? As I said, "The Quran is for our moral guidance. It is not a science text."
    You claim to understand the verses better than many exegetes. That is your belief. In fact you take the meaning from the verses that you want to take. That is what makes you a charlatan.
    When you ask,  "how the Angels knew that this new creation will make mischief and shed blood," are you suggesting that the Angels knew more than God knew? And are you suggesting that when God asked Angels to prostrate themselves before His new creation, their feelings were not hurt?
    You asked me, "how did they know that Allah would teach Adam the names/nature of all things and demonstrate his superiority before asking them to prostrate before him even before he had created Adam?" That is a very stupid question. Just read 2:30 to 2:34 and everything will be clear to you.
    You said, "I have stuck to the literal meaning of the verse (76:1) which is unsurprisingly in conformity with what Science tell us." 
    That is a lie. In no way does 76:1 yield the meaning that you falsely derive. I know that some exegetes, especially Ahmadi scholars, derive the same meaning as you do, but the vast majority of scholars do not derive that meaning, and it is sheer chicanery to derive such a meaning. Please stop playing with the Quran.
    The cognitive revolution took 40000 years to take place and cannot be made to coincide with one event e.g. the creation of Adam. Your attempt to reconcile the Quran with Science is either highly deceitful or unbelievably naive. What is more important, it is so unnecessary.

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 9/18/2019 11:52:12 AM



  • mr naseer ahmed displays an astounding ignorance of everything he tries to hack.
    never has been such complete ignorance been bestowed upon one man.
    indeed allah is great. he can create some of the most ignorant and educated person.

    By hats off! - 9/18/2019 6:02:13 AM



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