Running a Madrasah or for that matter any establishment is not an easy task. Particularly so, in resource deprived countries & resource deprived communities.Try doing so yourself & see- funding, keeping discipline, commitment, health & hygiene issues, and of course, Learning the religious text!Any school for that matter provides a place for bonding, making new friends, exchanging ideas, sharing experiences, sharing in each others’ values in times of need & otherwise.The only objection as I see here is to the curriculum.
It would be a better idea, to use the already established set-ups but go further to invigorate it by adding Libraries, Books, sports facilities, and more funding.In a Mosque in New Delhi, just passing by, at afternoon prayer time, I happened to check in, and there was a lunch in progress! I was heartily invited to join the Meal in very simple settings, to some lentils and bread. Never in my life have I had a mealso good with all the little ones sitting in rows around me.
Even when there was not much to go round, the little hands kept offering me more & more of what food was available! As soon as it was over, some cleaned up the place some boys did the dishes, some served Water. Never will I ever forget that gathering! May God bless them all and their good Teachers!It is very easy to criticize but is there a Plan B for all these little guys in poor countries like India, Pakistan and Bangladesh?Kind RegardsMohammed Ali RizviMarkham ON Canada
At least majority of Hindus are notsupporting Narendra Modi or even his party in states like: Punjab, Haryana,Delhi, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, West Bengal, Assam, and 8 North eastern states,Jammu and Kashmir, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Orissa. How many statesthese are? I hope you are counting on your fingers of your feet by now afterhaving exhausted that of hands. Even in Maharashtra, majority of Hindus do notlike Narendra Modi. So which majority you are talking about? Yes if we countonly RSS shakhas then I can hope that he is liked by majority. But you neverknow even there is also a strong lobby favouring Nitin Gadkari over NarendraModi as Modi in order to appear taller has stepped on the tail of RSS and hashurt its image by making RSS appear gang of murderers. Nitin Gadkari has muchbetter and cleaner image and has good organizing ability too. Anyway so in noway majority of Hindus are with Narendra Modi.
Come to second part. When you agree withwhat happened in Gujrat was not between Hindus and Muslims it is your makkarito not go ahead and agree that it was the unjust Chief Minister who brought badname to Hindus. As for talking about Kashmir, your argument is that sinceMuslims of Kashmir do not come out to support Hindus in Kashmir, so it is OKthat Muslims of Gujarat should be punished! What nonsense logic is this Satwa.Are you out of your mind? Hang a lean and thin person because the fatter onewho was supposed to be hanged is difficult to hang. Wah!!
Lastly, Narendra Modi has written hisname alongside that of Ravan who too had made Lanka of Gold, as it is saidabout him, but was unjust. No matter how much Narendra Modi may bring FDI inGujarat. He forgot his rajdharm and such adharmi will no way be supported bysuch Hindus who believe in dharm. For adharmis like you and your Jansanghibrigade, haven’t you heard of that song ‘Ramchandra kah gaye siya se (I hopeyou know what is siya for, it is for Mother Sita, his wife, and I felt need toexplain this because you being Jansanghi are adharmi so possibly you do notknow all these), aisa Kalyug aayega, Muslim Hindu ko Hindu ki hi dharm yaaddilayega.
@Raihan Nizami,Sonika,ms, Khalid: When Sultan Shahin screens madrassa education – he is talking about present day scenario. The truth is even if you look around all the Muslim countries in the world, you will find that the syllabus of madrassas are not geared to groom it students in the arts, sciences and disciplines that are needed to qualify in the premium job market – let alone command a competitive edge there. He is talking about this very day. In the past era, most of our forebear had madrassa education and many of them did well in life – in terms of acquiring higher civil education post madrassa education and getting good jobs. But the syllabus of civil education meanwhile has remarkably changed/ advanced, while the madrassa curriculum, especially of those numerous units that have mushroomed at the back of petro-dollars, remains heavily loaded with theological disciplines and grossly under-represented in subjects that are relevant to the job market in the expanding business and industrial world and other fields that have evolved with the progress of civilization.
So the product of these madrassas are definitely handicapped in the job market and end up as a moulvi or muezzin in a mosque or a private teacher to children for Qur’anic recitation. But these jobs command very low wages, because of supply and demand, and its lack of any financial bearing / return.
Besides, there is no religious ground to bar the madrassa students from acquiring universal knowledge in all the fields and faculties as taught in secular / civil educational institution, and there is no religious ground to divide the domain of knowledge between Islamic and non-Islamic. Such differentiation was not done in the early centuries of Islam when all the prevalent fields of knowledge – mathematics, chemistry, medicine, geography, astronomy were not only taught in madrassas but were intensively researched and the base of scientific and universal knowledge was greatly advanced. But in later era, the orthodoxy rejected universal sciences and disciplines and unlawfully divided knowledge between Islamic and non-Islamic.
God alone is the fountainhead of all knowledge and there is no justification to have a madrassa curriculum that under-represents universal sciences and knowledge – as is the case today – just the opposite to that of early Islam. The writer has discussed the issue at some length in the articles referenced below that those interested to get to the bottom of the issue facing the Muslims in education field and global competition today may read. Ref: 1. An Open Reminder to the Ulamas: Rejecting universal knowledge as un-Islamic is brazenly un-Islamic and kufr (denial of truth) http://www.newageislam.com/NewAgeIslamIslamicShariaLaws_1.aspx?ArticleID=59612. The evolution of the Hadith sciences and the Prophet’s Sunna and the need for a Major Paradigm Shift regarding the role of the Hadith Corpus and the scope of Madrassa education.http://www.newageislam.com/NewAgeIslamIslamicShariaLaws_1.aspx?ArticleID=6581
@Shamshad Elahee Shams. I fully endorse all the six points you mentioned with the exception of ‘banning any religious oriented education.’ If you are a Muslim as your name suggests, you must be aware that such a suggestion will fall on deaf ears – no it will be strongly resisted, and in the process your other valuable suggestions will be quashed. Not only the existing products of madrassas, running in millions, but also the vast majority of ordinary Muslims who remain glued to the TV to listen to an Islamic preacher or ‘alim will not take your this particular point. In the education domain, it will be a repetition of Kamal Ata Turk’s failed revolutionary reforms.
Besides, the madrassas are historically ‘religion oriented.’ They have a democratic right to remain so. No power or law on earth can strip them of this right. It is like asking all the Muslims to stop listening to TV preachers on the obvious ground that there is no divine reward for merely listening to a sermon, especially when one listens to the same thing every day, but what he listens does not inspire him to serve humanity. No one will listen to you. So you have to cut steel with steel. This is attempted in the following articles that draws on the Qur’an to frame a cut and dry ‘religious’ case to incorporate universal sciences in the madrassa in line with civil/ secular educational institutions. As they are somewhat exhaustive ijtihad driven discourses, their conclusions are also tabled below for your ready reference. I will look forward to your views. 1. An Open Reminder to the Ulamas: Rejecting universal knowledge as un-Islamic is brazenly un-Islamic and kufr (denial of truth)
Conclusion: “It is high time that the Muslim Ulama abolish any division of knowledge between Islamic and un-Islamic and incorporate the study of physical sciences and other universal faculties and professional disciplines in the curriculum of the madrassas. Obviously any major transformation in educational curriculum has to come in stages, but having lost almost five centuries, there is no more time to lose. Today, the participation of Muslims in academic and professional fields, cultural arenas, and prestigious and lawful avenues of livelihood in practically all Muslim minority countries is abysmally low as their educational, professional and cultural attainments are handicapped by their own or their parents’/ancestors’ madrassa based education. In historical perspective, if any single agency has to bear the blame for the introductory poetic outburst, it is probably the Ulama and the orthodox Islam - their throwback influence and reductive madrassa curriculum as this discourse amply demonstrates – however, bitter this may sound. In fact, the Ulama can probably redeem themselves by taking an about turn in their attitude by pro-actively espousing universal knowledge as suggested above, and also adopting appropriate Western language as a compulsory subject in their curriculum, for a Western language, notably English, is far richer and advanced in interpreting the kalimat (manifestations) of God and harnessing God’s blessings as the Qur’an enjoins than any other language at this moment.”2. The Opponents of the Right to Universal Education (RTE) to the Muslims are the enemies of Indian Muslims. http://www.newageislam.com/NewAgeIslamIjtihadRethinkingIslam_1.aspx?ArticleID=6146Conclusion: Given the social, cultural and economic decline of Muslims in India that hardly needs any elaboration and the fragmentation, divergence and academic stagnancy of Islamic theologically oriented institutions including the madrassas and their self-imposed and ungodly restriction on the promotion of universal education, all these institutions must be brought under the ambit of RTI as far as school level curriculum is concerned. There can be one subject on religion focusing on the inter-faith and universal dimensions of Islamic message, given that each Muslim household teaches the basics of religion to its children. 3. Intellectual ambivalence of educated Indian Muslims: the RTE versus the Ridiculous Fatwas
Conclusion: If the educated Muslims remain a silent witness to the exclusion of RTE to the madrassas as per popular demand, they or their posterity will have to pay a very heavy price. The mainstream Hindu community in India is going through a series of major reforms – many in line with the Qur’anic message – notably eradication of caste system, women’s right to inheritance, a widow’s right to remarry and so on. The Indian Muslims on the other hand are opposing reforms – much in the way their ancestors did in British India that led to their self imposed exodus from India, created inter-faith hatred and the culture of riots. If the Muslims fail to keep pace with the progressive strides of the mainstream Hindu community, they will end up as the pariahs and the underdogs of Indian society and bear the wrath of those who want India to shine, and the educated Muslims will alone bear the responsibility for this self imposed doom. With this the writer requests the New Age Islam to mount a campaign to support RTE extension into madrassas.4. The evolution of the Hadith sciences and the Prophet’s Sunna and the need for a Major Paradigm Shift regarding the role of the Hadith Corpus and the scope of Madrassa education.
Conclusion: “… there is an urgent need for a major paradigm shift in Islamic religious thoughts and the scope and curriculum of traditional madrassas: they should be converted to universal houses of learning like the Western missionary schools with the same curricula and education system as in civil schools – with the addition of a Religion class. The Muslim students may be taught the fundamentals of the Qur’anic message and the non-Muslims, the fundamentals of their faith.
Mr. SultanShahin has taken up a very crucial, relevant and most urgent issue at UNHRC, infact, this is high time to call for a ban on any religion-oriented education centrewhich does not comply with minimum code of education as follows:- 1. CompulsoryStandard English Education 2. Compulsory Standard Mathematics syllabus 3.Compulsory Standard Science Syllabus 4. Compulsory Physical Fitness TrainingEducation with at least two sports events 5. Complete BAN on Petro Dollar funds(KSA and Iran etc.) in any Religious Education 6. Compulsory Basic ComputerEducation.
it’s a pity to see Madrasa educated stuff whoeven can’t fill a Bank Draft form and on the top of that, they are brainwashed inbelieving themselves as the best human beings in the world. They are nothingbut a unique form of parasites created by Islamic education system who believesit is fighting against Jahiliiya. They themselves have become the highest formof Jahiliiya. Alas, the guilt lies with petrodollars states who spend millionsevery year in countries like India and Pakistan to breed this form ofignorance.
Thank youvery much, Mr Sultan Shahin, for bringing the burning issue to the world forum.Hope, GOI will soon do something to issue some guidelines to madrasas to complysix points agenda which are mentioned above. I know, education is a Statesubject and they have never been honest on this issue. if they were, thingswould have not taken such an ugly turn. Regards
SatwaGunam/Sadaf/Raihan Nezami and others. This is on the unproductive exchange ofopposing views as one sometimes encounters on this website.
When aperson admonishes his child, he has no regrets, but if someone else does thesame thing to his child, he is angered. If a child in a family, next door,cries, the noise evokes annoyance, but if it is one’s own child, the feeling istotally different: concern and compassion. Satwa Gunam with his erudition canprobably quote many such examples on the imperfection and inherent weaknessesof human logic and perception. Thomas Jefferson said, “An enemy generally saysand believes what he wishes.” Another fundamental truth concerning humanjudgment is its innate urge to establish the truth of its pre-conceivednotions, the notions that remain deeply and at times indelibly embedded in hismind. Therefore a ‘typical’ Muslim and ‘Hindu’ who do not regard each other asone and the same by attributing their confessional differences to happenstanceand acknowledging the commonalities, they can at times get distracted from themain issue at hand by the captivity of their mind to its pre-conceived notions.The commonalities are many e.g i) personal issues like child education, medicalexpenses, rising living costs, need for a flat or to change the flat for abigger one or to acquire flats for children or in the major cities, unendingcash demand at home front…. ii) the values of life – good deeds/karma, care andconcern for the poor and the underprivileged, strong filial ties, universalvirtues like justice, liberty, dignity and livelihood for all - for example;iii) the need for mutual understanding on a logical basis – you can’t kill a manor rape a woman today and condone it by the fact that the victim’s grandfatherhad killed and raped hundreds of men and women, or trying to establishspiritual/ cultural superiority (Muslims versus Kafirs) and lobbying forconversion rather than seeking reform internally.
My onlyrequest to all participants is to think as human being – proud Indians,descending from the same lot – the Aryans/ pagans/ Dravidians, divided intodifferent religions because of historical factors but desperately needing mutualgoodwill and understanding for the greater good of the people of thesubcontinent – imagine India and Pakistan sitting at nuclear warheads andcourting militant fundamentalism. The sentiment may be utopian and purelyphilosophical for the run of the mill educated lot. But those few who take thetrouble to comment on this website (unless paid by some quarter) may try torise above the religious divide while penning their views. Each of them shouldthink as Ram and Rahim, as advocate of as-slam and om-shanti simultaneously.
I will alsorequest all not to give any detailed response to any incriminating comment orabsurd/ theoretical proposition except putting in a sentence or two for acharge not refuted may get established as a truth.
Jansanghis continuous objection toanything for the benefit of Muslims is one major reason Satwa, just as you areopposing to have good, secular and free government schools in Muslimneighborhood. Your opposition is an evidence of the typical Jansanghis rolewhich I mentioned. The moment things will be done, you will shout ‘minorityappeasement’. You are a ‘deshdrohi’ who want citizens to remain burden on thestate by not contributing as much in GDP as they take out of it, just becauseyou hate them. Such schoolings will empower them and you will find moreresistance to face in your agenda to keep them deprived. You can clearly see ithere, where no Maulvi is there to comment on this forum and expose the dangersfrom Jansanghi, you find it impossible to hide what is in your mind when I makeyou write all those things which proves your agenda of keeping Muslimsdeprived.
The Jansanghi mind is so much biased andso much over-sensitive that they act like ‘chor ki daadhi mein tinka’ even whenI say “The blame has to rest on these conspirators but before that it has to beon the upper-class, middle-class and well-off Muslims. All the insults thatMuslims face today rest squarely on these irresponsible Muslims who shrug offtheir responsibility of not providing leadership to the community and keepingits interest and image in order”.
I am very much clear in my view that the“reasons like poverty, carelessness of parents, lack of finance by the societynon-fulfillment of the Zakat obligation by the affluent people” are muchsmaller reasons compared to the non-contribution of upper-class, middle-classand well off class Muslims in sending their children to Madarsa. Yes, they havesome genuine reasons to not send their ward to Madarsa and those reasons arehypocrisy and urge for shedding false tear for Muslims apart from the real factthat these Madarsas are really ill-equipped to meet their standards. But ifthey wanted their children to have good Islamic knowledge, they would haveparticipated in pushing the society to have that kind of Madarsa where theycould send their children.
Yes, I am a product of Madarsa thereforeI have first hand experience of things and then I too have walked mileseveryday to go to a Govt. School, but I am ready to walk much more tell theworld that it is that Govt. School which enable me to give reply to all thosewho conspire against Muslims (Jansanghis and pseudo-secularists) and thoseupper class, middle class and well off apathetic Muslims and blame all of themfor the mess they have created for Muslims. The real punishment for all thosewell off Muslims is that they have to share all the bad branding about Muslimstill the time they choose to claim themselves Muslims or they are identified asMuslims.
Thereis a conspiracy of communal Jansanghis and pseudo-seculars politicians in Indiaand self-serving Mullahs everywhere, each for their own reason but united intheir objective to not let Muslims go for modern, secular, scientific andhigher education. I am not against Islamic education, rather I am emphasizingthat well off Muslims should give more attention to acquire Islamic knowledgealong with the regular education that they receive so that they are able totake back the responsibility of leadership from semi-literate Maulvis.
Honestly,it doesn't take much to learn as much as these Maulvis know about Islam. Infact much more is needed to learn and such Maulvis are well short ofunderstanding and appreciating the power of ideas and convictions of Islam. Itwas the same Islamic ideas that had revolutionized the world when understandingand propagating its concept was not relegated to just Maulvis. It is absolutelycruel and unjust to blame Maulvis who are the only ones who dedicate theirlives in imparting Islamic teachings. Though, it is another matter that theirimpoverishment becomes the biggest hindrance to let them have completeeducation.
Jansanghisdo not want Muslims to be powerful and claim their rights, pseudo-seculars donot want Muslims to be able to understand their interest but just act asvote-bank to them, and self-serving Mullahs do not want to relinquish andhand-over their plum position of leadership and influence over Muslims toanyone else however competent the other may be. The Maulvis are thoseincompetent Muslims who aren’t trained well enough to teach diplomacy,politics, business, jurisprudence, philosophy etc. that is all within Islam butthey cannot be blamed for these deficiencies. The blame has to rest on theseconspirators but before that it has to be on the upper-class, middle-class andwell-off Muslims. All the insults that Muslims face today rest squarely onthese irresponsible Muslims who shrug off their responsibility of not providingleadership to the community and keeping its interest and image in order.