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Books and Documents

Debating Islam

9 - COMMENTS

  • I agree that the government needs to control their expenses and luxuries and concentrate on finally doing what they owe our country but what I also find hard to understand is that isn’t it a customary thing for most governments to treat their guests well?
    America is a country which is facing the worst liquidity crunch in decades. Every other day people are losing all their assets, committing suicides, facing natural catastrophes but their government also enjoys the best of luxuries and offers the same to their white house guests in parties...
    For God sake stop taking criticism from every end and firstly and on the most important note lets improve our image as a civilised and humane nation ( if not literate) ... and also it’s not like we don’t know what publicity stunts and political games are played by US and their socialites and humanitarians in form of aid and all such crap... By sana iqtidar -



  • Sorry but something is not right here.

     The original news report published in Khaleej Times is missing this addition by Zeenat Rehman:

     She is not happy with the attitude of the authorities and the government, who were more interested in toeing her line, watching her make movements, trying to please her while pushing the flood victims. She was also perturbed at the Prime Minister’s wish that his family wanted to meet him. Prime Minister’s family was especially flown down all the way from Multan to Islamabad and they presented expensive gifts to Jolie and had a sumptuous meal with her.

    Now the readers are wondering where the truth lies?!!!?!!!

    By Mubashir Inayet -



  • Mr Haque, we are only commenting on a news story. We are not trying to determine whether Angelina Jolie or Prime Minister Gillani should be admitted to Heaven.

     

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin -



  • I always thought and was made to think that I was a conservative. But I really am not concerned with ‘individual Jolie’ baring her body for a living and I know quite a lot of women have to do this in this mad bad world. But as matter of principle I am against women being pushed to baring their bodies for making a living, if possible. I also have no interest in her sexual orientation but as matter of principle hetro-sex should be the way of the world. Having said that, I think men and women are permitted to live with their sins and deal directly with their Creator. As per the Islamic doctrine they can always set-off their sins against their ‘sawabs’. That should propel believing men and women to cut down on their sins and add up on ‘sawabs’ by means of their deeds.

    I wouldn’t also bother to know if she is a Muslim unless she proclaims herself to be one.

    I am coming to the Prime Minister part, which is more important to me as being symbolic of the breakdown of social contract in Muslim society; otherwise I have little interest on commenting on the conduct of Prime Minister of Pakistan.  Of course to the extent it helps India and the civilized world to rebuild social contract amongst Muslims or at least arrest its deterioration further, I am all for it.

    I wish social contract was as simple as being good and doing good. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Suppose I am too credulous and extremely good too. It is likely that I will believe in the first bad news, and with my typical goodness I will rather react strongly – even without checking the authenticity of the bad news. Suppose Angelina Jolie did not say any of those things or some of those things, with a telling consequence on the story!

    Suppose the news that I have received is correctly conveyed to me in its form, but not in its essence. Then also my over-reaction would not be justified. Suppose the Prime Minister did not gawk at the movie star more than perhaps I would have gawked getting a chance!

    Suppose Angelina Jolie does believe in the perfectly noble mission of carrying the Whiteman’s burden, and suppose the food laid out was the stupidity of the caretaker, because surely it is impossible for any Prime Minster to control a dining table!

    Suppose awkward Muslim leaders lose their bearing in facing up to men and women of the White races exactly as we non-leaders do and therefore try to overdo a thing lest we should be accused of trying to underdo because of our inferiority complex!

    Suppose the nouveau riche of the Pakistani Muslim Society (the ruling class) is one tenth as rich as the nouveau riche of the Indian Hindu  Society (again the ruling class), but because of Muslim’s penchant for equality, the criticism of the ruling class is only ten times more.

    Suppose these entire suppositions of mine are out of sync with time and there is a genuine need for the restructuring of the Muslim society in Pakistan to replace the failing sticking glue, which actually is the social contract, by a new sticking glue. 

    What shall be the nature of that glue to hold on, in the interest of the world civilization and for the world peace? Of course this is for the Pakistanis to think and I have no further words than this.

    By Manzurul Haque -



  • Our social contract consists of being good and doing good. Angelina Jolie not only made a generous contribution for the victims of the worst floods in Pakistan's history but also found time to visit them. Her profession often requires her to expose her body, and in her personal life she is a bisexual, but she is a better Muslim than the Prime Minister who, in the midst of a national energecy, thought that it was important for his family to visit and gawk at a movie star. By Ghulam Mohiyuddin -



  • Dear Mr.Rizvi, can intrinsic goodness be at variance with the true ‘desire or liking’ of God?

     “Angelina Jolie is truly moral indeed. Angelina Jolie is also a declared atheist.  I wonder where her morality comes from.” So what next? When you find an answer to your question, please do share.

    By the way I have great admiration for Western achievers because of their philanthropy and not atheism, of which it is difficult to be as sure. Generally such ‘achievers’ in the West, which includes Newton and Einstein too, don’t rejoice in atheism.

    What about thinking as hard about the ‘social contract’ thing in Pakistan (is that the country of your origin?).

    Footnote: What I meant is that Angelina Jolie never spoke those words, as indeed they don’t act so cheaply, and she would not know or understand a thing about our enormous discussion of what she presumably said, because those people cannot match up with our credulity.

    By Manzurul Haque -



  • Manzurul Haque says:"....this may also not earn us any ‘sawab’ either ....."   

    My comment:

    As long as we are doing things for earning (or more correctly hoarding) more 'sawabs' rather than for their intrinsic goodness we are not truly moral. 

    Angelia Jolie is truly moral indeed

    Syed Rizvi

    By Syed Rizvi -



  • Let me put down something. Angelina Jolie does not know a thing about what she said, and what others are saying about what she said.

    But the posting of the piece and opinions on the posting, reflect the thinning away of the ‘social contract’ in Muslim society.  This is a serious matter and needs to be arrested by the intellectuals since no other group can handle this task. We all are short of time but time has to be spared for this kind of job. This work may not earn a farthing to us and from the classical viewpoint, this may also not earn us any ‘sawab’ either, but If Allah is Wise, He will certainly reward us for rebuilding up the ‘social contact’ - in my humble view.  

    By Manzurul Haque -



  • Angelina Jolie is also a declared atheist.  I wonder where her morality comes from

    I am ashamed of our young Pakistanis that are nothing more than a bunch of exhibitionists with the right lengths of beard or with hijab to draw attention to publicize their piousness.  These are nothing but a facade and through which God can see their motives. Since He is all knowing.

    Syed Rizvi

    By Syed Rizvi -