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  • To: All Respected Readers on the “New Age Islam” forum.

    Ladies & Gentlemen,

    As-Salaam Alay-Kum

    “Save Muslim Youths” from “The Bearded Nomads.

    Countless millions are trotting the globe dressed in Islamic garb who are extremely busy making Muslims only be aware of his/her ritual duties and the hell with all the worldly affairs.  

    Little wonder that Islam is the target of so many enemies (?). It is more than obvious that the “Tablighi Jamaat” have been highly unsuccessful in making Muslims intelligent enough to defend the religion of Islam on the world stage. They are a least bit bothered with anything that surrounds them. No one knows the whereabouts of their secret leadership and no one even dare ask that question either. It will remain mysterious till the doomsday, my fellow Muslims.   

    One good friend of mine told me today that if any missionary outfit becomes “Aqkal Ka Dushman” then all of their followers are doomed. We are witnessing one right here on this forum all riled up against Islam, and the other continue to praise the so-called noble works of “Tablighi Jamaat” with no end in sight. Of course, we all have to respect everyone’s viewpoints. My only curiosity is that, “Do these people read in between the lines?” May be as the followers, they are also totally brainwashed too? Who knows?   

    Again, my polite reminder is to “Save Muslim Youths” from “The Bearded Nomads.

    Thanks again for reading, I remain

    Very respectfully yours,

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/24/2014 9:50:21 PM
  • To: All Respected Readers of the “New Age Islam” forum.

    Here is what respected Yoginder Sikand wrote in Series No. 5 of his article on “Tablighi Jamaat” dated April 27, 2010:

    “Today's Meo youth is routine in the Meo press. In the pages of the New Meo Times hardly ever does one come across mention of Meo youth actively participating in tabligh and other religious activities. Some elderly Meos readily admit that they sometimes have to force their sons to travel on tabligh much against their will. According to one informant, from time to time instructions are received from the TJ headquarters calling for a certain minimum number of men from each village to go out on tabligh. In some cases there seem to be no volunteers and so the village elders simply get together and decide on their own who should be made to join the jama'at. In this way, sometimes people are forced by social pressure to go on jama'at.

    On their part, many young Meos are now beginning to complain that the TJ is far too ritualistic, other-worldly and neglectful of the real world concerns of their impoverished community. According to a Meo college student, it is now often the case that people who know little about Islam but have participated in a jama'at presume that they know more than the 'ulama themselves and start to raise objections to such small, inconsequential matters as wearing western clothes, shaving off the beard, sending girls to co-educational schools and even to men urinating while standing—all of these being grossly 'un-Islamic' for them. Because of this, he says, growing numbers of younger generation Meos are simply losing interest in the TJ.

    To many young Meos today, the attitude and behaviour of TJ activists is not just wrong in a general sense, but, above all, un-Islamic as well. A Meo student pursuing his doctoral studies in Islam at Delhi's Jami'a Millia Islamia says:

    “The division that Tablighi activists make between din and duniya is itself un-Islamic, for in Islam, the sphere of life is part of the din. They see the din as lying simply in prayers and fasting and going on tabligh tours, the rest being duniya, and these two are perceived as fundamentally opposed to each other. That is why they do not pay any attention to the worldly concerns of the Meos, dismissing them as duniyavi. In fact, I have often heard Tablighi maulvis in Mewat lament in their lectures the little economic progress that we have experienced, saying that when we were poor and nearly starving we were very pious Muslims, but that today because we are a little more comfortably off we have forgotten God. This attitude of the maulvis is something that many educated Meos resent today. Undoubtedly, this has caused a growing disillusionment with the movement on their part.””

    Click on the link: http://twocircles.net/2010apr27/tablighi_jamaat_mewat_part_5.html

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/24/2014 8:56:09 PM
  • lodhia
    how about taimur lang who kept amuslim turkish caliph inthe cage. howabout aurangzeb. so your holy masters forgave the sins ofidi ameen because he had the name mohammed. 
    how ignorant and childish are your statments. sharm aati hai tumhe american republican maan ne main.
    go suadiarabia. america is not for you. people like you are bloaton america
    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/23/2014 10:14:07 PM
  • lodhi
    mr observer rightly sensed andaskedyou to stop saying 'respected'. yeh baat is confused ne nahi kahi balki ek muslim ne kahi hai jo islam ke liye hilikhta hai.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/23/2014 9:38:35 PM
  • lodhi
    are you still stucked in respect, self respect etc? have you ever heard of malamati sect of sufism? think if you can with your antsize brain. abhi to tum bachhe ho sufism ki alif baa taa(abjad) bhi nahi jaante na amal karte. bas kahin sun liya ki sufism bhi koi cheeze hoti hai. bas kahlane lage sufi.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/23/2014 9:26:56 PM
  • mandbudhi lodhia
    who requested you to answer? will you pay respect to a person who is mohammed by name but rapes or do frauds? are you sure mohammeds are not rotting in prisons. dimwit if you keep holding him as best of creature, afzal ul ambia you are responsible for inviting all dust and dirt from others. forget about my name. you can't do anything about it. 
    i don't want any respect from a person who believe non-muslims are napaak and he claims to be a humanity lover. sheer hypocricy from a moderate.  say you a moderate is the inault of moderate.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/23/2014 8:29:00 PM
  • lodhia the dimwit 
    how are you? there are many people having named mohammed are murderers rapists. why are you crazy about my part ofname? this type of craziness over moham d makes him target for kind of abusesand criticism. if he was a good man my slander is not going to harm him if he was a bad man then he desrves criticism being a wqjah ekaiynat
    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/23/2014 8:09:41 PM
  • Confused Rational Pseudo,

     

    Do you have any “Self-Respect?” If you are so proud to let your friends and colleagues call you by the name “Mohammed Younus,” then at least be respectful of your good name which was given by your beloved grandmother.

     

    You can call me imbecile or by any other name you desire, but you simply cannot change your own name, that is, “Mohammed.” If you continue to hang on to this particular name, then why do you keep ranting and raving about how bad is Islam and our Prophet of Islam?

     

    Don’t talk about Butcher Idi. He was given refuge in the Holy Land of Saudi Arabia. He did died there as a peaceful resident. Muslim leaders loves to forgive sins of the evildoers. That is what they do best? What else is new?

     

    One more thing, imbecile is a person whose mental acumen is well below par. Why not raise yours, and in turn, I will try my best to raise mine too. Happy now, Mr. Rational Pseudo. Kindly have mercy on the “Moderate Muslims.” This is just a small request of this humble Musalmaan.

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia  - 11/24/2013 12:06:31 PM

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 9:45:37 PM
  • Mr Rafiq Lodhia,

    Why are you bent upon proving that you are a crazed dimwit.

    Muhammad Yunus of Grameena Bank fame in Bangla Desh, has achieved greatness doing simple things with financing of rural folks mostly women and won a Noble Prize too. He had a set of very simple objectives which he achieved in a big way. Now Grameena Bank is a village Bank. A dimwit like you will argue about how could a village Bank be considered  great when you have great Banks such as Bank of America, Citibank, HSBC etc? I can't going on engaging with a person like you. You are on a different wavelength altogether. Please therefore be kind enough to excuse me - now and forever.
    By Observer - 2/22/2014 9:42:44 PM
  • Naseer Ahmed Saheb,

     

    Step out of “The Twilight Zone. Mr. S. Jeelani has raised some pertinent questions and you ought to show some courage to answer them in an intelligent manner.

     

    You can count me out, as I am not fit to debate with an “Intellectually Dishonest” Islamic scholar. As for Pseudo Rational, he can yell and scream, as I am not going to answer him at all.

     

    I do not think that the India’s Muslim Spring” needs all the jibber jabber from Islamic scholars who continue to live in the 7th century. I say, “Leave The Muslim Youths Alone.” They do not need any interference from none of the “Dimwits” that belongs to the “Tablighi Jamaat” or from those who falsely praise the missionary outfit as the greatest thing that ever happened in the Islamic world.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia   

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 9:36:57 PM
    • Mr Lodhia continues to write but evades responding to the post below which was a response to his persistent demand in screaming bold lines to list the reasons why the TJ is great:
    • OK Mr Lodhia,

      Since I asked you the question about GE, let me answer.

      What makes GE (or for that matter any other business) great, is that it is a company that is more than 100 years old,  with a consistent record of growth with profitability. There are only three parameters here 1. profitability 2. growth and 3 Over what period?  If we rank companies on these three criteria, you will find that they differ vastly from each other in the detail but no matter how great they may be in other respects such as say `innovation', unless they are consistently  profitable and keep growing, they do not survive over a long period. We may define a  thousand odd parameters to measure a business by, but unless these  result in growth with profit in the long run, there is no entity remaining to talk about.


      What is the objective of the TJ?  Let me quote a non Muslim who understands it so well! “And there’s no arguing with TJ’s success. The Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist organizations may castigate the organization for its disengagement from politics and for its lack of popular welfare and education programs, but one could argue that Tabligh is better than its detractors at keeping its eye on the real prize: renewing piety among Muslims and indoctrinating them with a strong sense of Islamic community that is global in scope.” Timothy R Furnish

      The TJ has a very simple program. It is to teach Muslims the basics of Islam and  follow the "pillars of Islam" viz belief, salat, zakat and sadqa, saum and haj besides inculcating good Muslim behaviour. 

      If you have read the Quran and understood it, you cannot fail to notice that the Quran repeatedly stresses on three things besides good deeds and they are belief, salat and charity.

      There were millions of Muslims in the subcontinent and Africa, who had no knowledge of Islam, who were taught the basics of Islam by the members of the  TJ. If the TJ has made millions follow the important tenets of Islam that are enjoined by the Quran and which was the mission of the Prophet to teach, besides inculcating a sense of community that is global in scope, isn't their achievement worthy of praise and have they not been continuing the mission of the Prophet? 

      Any other Jamat may have got diverted from its primary aim and got embroiled in local, national and international politics but the Jamat had the foresight to steer clear of all politics and controversy.

      The Jamat has succeeded in its basic objective of reviving piety among Muslims. It has continuously grown over the years in terms of numbers and geographical spread. It has remained peaceful and non controversial all through the turbulent times. While every other Jamat and Sangh was banned during the emergency, it is the only Jamat which has never been banned in India or elsewhere except Russia which bans every religious organization.

      Are  these reasons not enough for you to see greatness? However, if you are blinded by your sectarian animosity, you will continue to argue like a frenzied Islamophobe who can never accept that Islam has any virtue. 
      By Observer - 2/22/2014 2:33:14 AM
    By Observer - 2/22/2014 9:31:00 PM
  • Naseer Ahmed Saheb,

     

    Remember your written statement as follows:  

     

    I am not a Jamati nor have I attended any of their gatherings even in a local mosque during the last 35 years. So, I have my personal reasons or likes/dislikes because of which I keep away. At the same time, I realize that I have no objective reason to oppose them. They are like the primary school in a village. Would you deny Muslims who would otherwise not receive any education, the benefit of even a primary school? A village primary school is however too limiting for me and not my cup of tea. However, I would be mad to have it closed down without providing a better alternative. By all means build an alternate more sophisticated and modern Jamat but what is the point in trying to destroy what we have because it does not measure up to our expectations?

     

    Gee! If the “Tablighi Jamaat” is like a “Primary School” in a village, then what on earth made you to compare the greatness of this missionary outfit with companies such as, General Electric? Are you out of your mind, Sir!

     

    Jack Welch would have never hired any of the students from this great primary school as they are nothing but a bunch of “Dimwits” who stopped using their intelligence as they continue to remain focused in dressing themselves in Islamic garb to float around the globe preaching the message of Islam. Hell with family members as their personal salvation is much more important than anything else. Are you going to entrust those “Thoughtless Devotees” to revamp the Islamic brand?  

     

    Naseer Ahmed Saheb, now be fair to analyze what you posted on November 25, 2013. It is as follows:

     

    Creating a distinctive identity in the commercial world is about creating a brand on which firms spend enormous amounts. Cadburys is a brand that has become synonymous with chocolates, Apple with electronics etc etc.

     

    Identity, branding etc play a very important, useful and positive role. I have not seen anyone decry identity and separateness so much as the educated and modern Muslims who are so embarrassed by their Muslim identity, that they would like to lose it completely.

     

    There is however nothing evil about creating a separate identity and taking pride in it. Pride and shame are what propel people to excel.

     

    The positive approach would be to improve the branding and image of our religion rather than lose our identity from shame.

     

    Let’s not forget that one of the students dropped out and now has a “Personal Vendetta” against Islam and our Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him). What have you been observing, Mr. Observer? Zero!


    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 9:26:04 PM
  • Mr Lodhia and Mr Hats Off can read 

    India’s Muslim Spring — Why is Nobody Talking about It? By Hasan Suroor

    They will understand that there isn't any growing radicalization of Muslim youth although they are now openly wearing their Muslim identity on their sleeves.





    By Observer - 2/22/2014 9:24:31 PM
  • Rafiq Lodhia
    two Muslims at sectarian war, one scholar another 'Dimwit'. how nice? who says Islam one day will be peaceful. it was not, it is not and will not. Early Muslims fought for power, present Muslims are fighting for power and future Muslims will fight for power.
    fareb e ahle khuda ne musalmaan rahne na diya
    warna kabhi ham bhi khudaa rakhte the.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/22/2014 9:19:31 PM
  • Rafiq Lodhia
    you are an exemplary fanatic in the garb of tolerance, peace and love. have you learned this much from your peers? Apne dushmanon ko salaam karna bhi chhod diya. isi balboote par Sufi hone kaa dhong rachte ho.
    dong hai dhong. ayyari hai shahanshaahi bhi aur darveshi bhi.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/22/2014 9:07:48 PM
  • Naseer Ahmed Saheb,

     

    Mr. S. Jeelani was absolutely right in pointing out two hard facts which you conveniently cannot answer up until this very day. Forget about what you call “Dimwit,” “Ultimate Scavenger” or “Fanatic Islamophobe.” Mr. Jeelani deserves an intellectual answer from Islamic scholars like you.   

     

    dear mr observer, two issues are eminently scrutinizable here.

    one is the growing radicalization of muslim youth all over the world.

    the second is the money trail which leads to saudi arabia.

    these are undeniable. there is even more.

    the saudi school texts that teach children a clear disliking for kafaars, jews and muslims. the same text is standard syllabus in the thousands of saudi funded mosques attached madarsass in the europe and north america. even these are capable of being objectively scrutinized.

    so if you are uncomfortable with the word wahabism, one should still have some term to describe the mindless, medieval, brutal form of religion they are following in the hejaz and exporting to the rest of the world?


    By hats off! - 11/23/2013 2:53:10 AM

     

    There is even more wrote Mr. S. Jeelani. Yes, he is right and that is what I tried to do on this particular thread. You were not “Observing” Mr. Observer as you were carried away by your ego to continue to defend your “Tablighi Jamaat.     

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 8:59:02 PM
  • Naseer Ahmed Saheb,

     

    You go by another screen name “Mr. Observer. Did you observed that I stopped expressing “As-Salaam Alay-Kum” to you, and even stopped using the word “Respected.” All because of your very statement as follows:  

     

    Please do not use 'Respected' and pleasantries when your post is rude. It only shows that you are a hypocrite.  You remind me of the character Uriah Heep in the novel David copper field. By Observer - 11/25/2013 12:54:45 AM

     

    Not only this, you used another nickname to describe my character aside from “Dimwit.”

     

    Your post on the "ultimate truth" is the "ultimate shit" and shows you to be the "ultimate scavenger". Can you not even choose a proper source?

    Now what else is there in your Islamic learning to hit me with another one of the names? If you want to feel good about winning an argument then be happy and contented. You do not have to answer this post, but I sure will try to educate my fellow Muslims and the readers on this forum as well.  

    Thank Heavens that I did not join “Tablighi Jamaat, or else, I will wind up as a mental case too. By the way, for the “Dimwit,” I still call you “Saheb.” Praise be to Almighty Allah for bestowing upon me a little wisdom to show respect to my fellow Muslims.  

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 8:50:27 PM
  • Lodhia is back to where it started and will regurgitate all the 359 comments on the topic. Has he responded to my post answering him on why the achievements of TJ are great? No, he is rendered speechless on that and on my response to his earlier fanatical obsession with the Aqeedah of the TJ.  If this not a signing of having lost the debate what else is it?

    If it pleases him, he can declare victory. He has my permission for it. I am sure that will make his day. Wasn't that Clint Eastwood video which he posted which said "make my day". So Mr republican cowboy, your day is made! 

    By Observer - 2/22/2014 8:48:55 PM
  • Naseer Ahmed Saheb – On November 13, 2013 it was Ajoy Ashirwad Mahaprashasta who wrote as follows:

    Hard-Line Teaching

    The phenomenal rise of two Wahhabi groups, Tablighi Jamaat and Ahle-Hadith, in the past five years is noteworthy. Tablighi Jamaat has been growing stronger, especially in Madhya Pradesh, Maharashtra, Kerala, Uttar Pradesh and Gujarat. This group is trying to appropriate the syncretic culture of “Aalmi Tablighi Ijtema” (world conference held in Bhopal), which attracts at least 10 lakhs of the faithful every year. Tablighi Jamaat wants to hold similar Ijtema in Raipur (Chhattisgarh) and Hyderabad. Tablighis reportedly also control the All India Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB) and most Waqf boards. Its members visit villages and hold congregations of local Muslims and propagate the group’s six-point programme. The six tenets are: Kalimah, which teaches Muslims to follow only Allah and no other God; Salat, which stresses the need to pray five times a day; Ilm and zikr, which invoke the Hadith; Ikram-e-Muslim, which stresses the need to respect other Muslims; and Dawah, which urges every Muslim to live according to the Islamic virtues practiced by the Prophet. Apart from this, the Jamaat encourages its followers to go on Khuruj, a conversion tour.

    Such hard-line teaching is also preached by the Ahle-Hadith, which denounces all other traditions of Islam and claims to follow true Islam. It invokes Hadith, accompanied by the Quran, and is strictly opposed to the Sufi tradition. Both these groups promote a minimalistic lifestyle and irreverence towards other cultures.

    Interestingly, while Ajoy Ashirwad Mahaprashasta Ajoy reminded all the “Tableeghis” like you and Pseudo Rational about “Ikram-e-Muslim” which stresses the need to respect other Muslims, but with your usual arrogance you remained disrespectful through and through. Now, what greatness of character the “Tableeghis” are you talking about, Naseer Ahmed Saheb? Pseudo Rational gave up and declared himself as “An Apostate,” whilst you are busy claiming victory over a debate which you cannot even win on account of proving yourself right all the time.  

     

    “Lodhia shows all the characteristics of a fanatic Islamophobe.” That’s a great verdict from a man who continues to call his favorite “Tablighi Jamaat” one of the greatest missionary outfits that ever existed and continue to exist on this planet Earth. Readers should ponder about the severe lack of judgment on part of Naseer Ahmed and/or Mr. Observer.     

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia    

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 8:33:16 PM
  • Another face of Tolerant Sufis

    Shaikh Abdul Quddus Gangoh
    , need be cited because he belonged to the Chishtia Silsila considered to be the most tolerant of all Sufi groups. He wrote letters to the Sultan Sikandar Lodi, Babur, and Humayun to re-invigorate the Shariat [Sharia] and reduce the Hindus to payers of land tax and jizya. To Babur he wrote, “Extend utmost patronage and protection to theologians and mystics… that they should be maintained and subsidized by the state… No non-Muslim should be given any office or employment in the Diwan of Islam… Furthermore, in conformity with the principles of the Shariat they should be subjected to all types of indignities and humiliations. They should be made to pay the jizya…They should be disallowed from donning the dress of the Muslims and should be forced to keep their Kufr [infidelity] concealed and not to perform the ceremonies of their Kufr openly and freely… They should not be allowed to consider themselves the equal to the Muslims. (The Legacy of Muslim Rule in India [1992], p. 237)
    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/22/2014 7:56:02 PM
  • Lodhia shows all the characteristics of a fanatic Islamophobe. He has now relapsed by 90 days. Is he rendered speechless on my response to his repeated demand which amounted to screaming for telling him what makes the TJ great? Why is he quiet when he was so insistent on having my reasons for considering the achievements of the Jamat as great? He is also rendered speechless on my response to his obsession with Aqeedah. This constant shifting of gears is a sign of a person who has lost the debate but his fanaticism prevents him from giving up.


    He can expect me to ignore him from now on.
    By Observer - 2/22/2014 7:53:31 PM
  • Rafiq Lodhia
    Hasan Al-Banna was a Sufi and founded most notorious Jamat 'Muslim Brotherhood' is there any parallel to this jamat in creating extreme political unrest throughout the world? and he was killed mysteriously by unknown to this date. what a tragic end of a Sufi.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/22/2014 7:44:49 PM
  • Naseer Saheb – Ninety days lapsed and you remain still adamant in your views about “TJ.

     

    To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Mr. Observer wrote: A Tabligh also has a religious identity besides national and language and all other identities. They wear their national dress, speak their own language and the religious identity come from beard and head covering.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s response: Does Mr. Observer knows that the Chinese, Mongolians, Siberians nor those living in the Eskimo land cannot grow beard?

     

    Mr. Observer wrote: Creating an identity does mean the people are intolerant about others. A Rotarian is not intolerant of a Lion but a Rotarian will attend a Rotary club and a Lion his own club and each will wear the badge of their club.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s response: Creating any sort of identity with strict dress codes, beards, hijabs and following another book instead of Holy Quran should classify that particular religious organization to belong to what we call in the civilized world, as a “Cult.

     

    Mr. Observer wrote: Creating a distinctive identity in the commercial world is about creating a brand on which firms spend enormous amounts. Cadburys is a brand that has become synonymous with chocolates, Apple with electronics, etc, etc.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s response: Bonvita and iPhone are branded products sold to all humankind. It does not have a religious tag, period.

     

    Mr. Observer wrote: Identity, branding etc play a very important, useful and positive role. I have not seen anyone decry identity and separateness so much as the educated and modern Muslims who are so embarrassed by their Muslim identity, that they would like to lose it completely.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s response: Muslims are not embarrassed by Muslims’ identities. They are most definitely embarrassed by their repulsive character, especially, of those who dress like Holy Men and does his “Tablighi” works without caring for their sick parents or their pregnant wives.

     

    Mr. Observer wrote: The positive approach would be to improve the branding and image of our religion rather than lose our identity from shame.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s response: Improving the image of Islam means to get out of the “Ghetto Thinking.” In other words, the mindset which applauds and endorses all the immoral acts and encourages criminal worshipping must be permanently shunned. “Tabligh Jamaat” is now under the radar of the U.S. Government agencies. Only because of Muslims like Mr. Observer, the future generation of Muslim youths are going to confront an uphill battle in their lives. Mr. Observer is merely speeding up the process by not taking into account the ground reality.

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/25/2013 10:05:17 PM

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 2:53:56 PM
  • Naseer Ahmed Saheb – Here is the wisdom of Ghulam Mohiyuddin Saheb:

     

    In my experience Tablighi Jamaat is most attractive to those Muslims who put great value on ritualism and great emphasis on Muslim identity. It is least attractive to those Muslims who put great value on inclusivism and free thought.

     

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 11/25/2013 4:12:10 PM

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 2:45:50 PM
  • Naseer Ahmed Saheb – Surely, you will disagree with everything other commentators have stated on this particular thread, and even with the “Editor” of the forum too.

    Quote:

    “The movement had started because Maulana Ilyas had felt that the Muslims of Mewat (an area close to Delhi) were too well integrated with their Hindu neighbours. Mewati Muslims looked and behaved too much like Hindus for his comfort.  No wonder the Wahhabi-Saudi state sends several planeloads of Tableeghi preachers almost everyday from Jeddah to far corners of the world to help them colonise Muslim minds, impose medieval Arab culture on them. Millions of petrodollars are spent in putting together large conferences to be attended by millions in different parts of the world. Tablighi Jamaat claim to be apolitical, but is preaching exclusivism and distancing Muslims from their non-Muslim neighbours, virtually acting as Saudi colonial agents, not politics?

    Unquote:

     

    By Sultan Shahin - 11/21/2013 5:16:01 PM

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 1:45:22 PM
  • Naseer Ahmed Saheb, Please reflect and ponder over the comments by Mr. S. Jeelani as follows:

     

    dear mr observer, though the jamaat might be absolutely apolitical, it is a coercive, clan like association where the loyalty is to the tableegh.

    i know of two cases personally where these people (called jamati in these parts) have successfully mounted social, family and business related pressure on two luke warm muslims. what the jamatis do not realize is that they have simply made hypocrites out of honest men.

    anothrt fiend told me after his elder son has fallen in with the 'jamatis', that the boy is always going away without saying where. also he insists that his mother wear the hijab and head scarf even at home.
    this is what his father had to say "once these jamatis get your sons, they are no more your's."

    the issue with coercive strategies for 'enforcing' dress codes, personal behavior, fasting in ramjan, mosque attendance, insisting on islamic speech are all very much in practice by the foot warriors of this clannish association. this is the foundry where the heart is hardened, pleasure is derived from harshness, demeanor becomes severe, trials and tribulations are welcomed and thought gets frozen.

    whether this directly leads to extremist violence or not, it certainly leads to extremism in personal opinions, behaviors and unreasonable expectations from co-religionists.

    this is pure exclusivism.

    above all, this results in a withdrawal from the secular mainstream. this can in no way be praiseworthy. it is to be deprecated by all means.


    By hats off! - 11/21/2013 3:27:40 AM

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 1:38:12 PM
  • Asslamalikum
    Dear brothers and sisters in islam,
    Today i would like to start a new topic here..asking our brothers to post REASONS why should a NON Muslim Revert to ISLAM (Revert bcoz according to our belief every person is born muslim,  its his parents and society that makes him take any other deen).
    some very great person has told ISLAM is the best RELIGION but Muslims are the worst followers..
    So lets SHOWACASE our religion here...by highlighting points which has made islam the best religion...


    Make sure the points are Short, Practical, Unique not found in other religions, Easy for a non muslim to understand... sisters and brother who have already reverted back to Islam can also post there reasons to revert...waiting for your response...

    The Reasons are innumerable but to start i will give one..
    CLEANLINESS : In Islam its said.. PAAKI aadha DEEn HAI (cleanliness is half your religion)
    1.. Islam gives a lot of importance to cleanliness which no other religion in the world gives...like
    a) Taking water after visiting the toilets, washing hands,
    b) Performing WuZu five times a day makes sure that a person is clean upto bits....before prayers its compulsory for a muslim to wash his Hands, legs, face, three times each,
    c) Wuzu is compulsory after visiting bathroom, after passing wind…and after many things that makes a peron impure
    d) Taking a bath everyday is afzal taking a bath every Friday is compulsory.
    e) Putting Itr (khushboo) is sunnah
    f) Cleaning teeth with Miswaq is sunnah
    e) No form of prayer will be accepted in impure form of a human being….
    Tell me which another religion in this world lays so much importance on cleanlinessâ

    Source:http://amazonintl.in/forum/index.php?topic=1333.0
    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/22/2014 6:48:27 AM
  • Rafiq Lodhia
    you are disturbed by some shameless fabrications by maulana in Fadhyile Aamal. Let me say there are all lies. Haapy1
    kaanch ke ghar men baithne walon ko doosre ghar par pathhar nahi phenkna chahiye.

    now taste it:

    "On one Jume Raat when Sabir was delivering his sermon at the masjid (mosque), Rayees-e-Kaliyar asked Sabir: “If you can tell me about my goat I lost three months back, I will acknowledge you the Imam (religious head).” Sabir clearly understood that his authenticity was being challenged. So he raised his hand towards the sky and said: “Those who have eaten the lamb, please come here.” As soon as he said this, 27 men appeared. When asked if they had eaten the lamb, they denied it. On repeated denials, Sabir asked Rayees-e-Kaliyar to call the lambs’ name. Rayees-e-Kaliyar shouted: “Harmana Harmana! Where are you?” Hearing this, the lamb screamed from the stomach of those men and feebly described how she was cut into pieces and feasted upon. This miracle created ripples but Rayees-e-Kaliyar and Tabrak called Sabir “a magician” and continued conspiring against him."


    For a long time, Sabir tolerated this resentment. However, one day when Sabir was sitting with his peers in the first row to read namaz (prayer to Allah) the rich men of Kaliyar objected. A verbal dispute occurred and Sabir out of sheer anger cursed: “ All of you will die and this place will remain deserted.” Soon the mosque fell, and those inside, were crushed to death. There was utter chaos and trepidation everywhere. Only a Guler tree, a bee’s hive, a small piece of land and a graveyard survived the disaster.

    A Sufi who can't control his anger must be a bloat on humanity if not on religion.

    Source:

    http://www.aulia-e-hind.com/dargah/kaliyar.htm
    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/22/2014 6:44:02 AM
  • lodhia
    i hope you are enjoying 'dimwit' given to you by a scholar of islam who write for islam unlss he is driven into sectarian fight by people like you. 
    i am apostate of islam. i quote from islamic authentic sources. i have left TJ too. now here is a chance you can baptize me into Sufism? which sufism qadri, chishti, naqshbandi, sohravardi? don't delay. convince me so that you can convert me into your preferabale tareeqa. i am all ears. educate me with some so that my science oriented mind can swim into your fable based tareeqa.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/22/2014 5:55:20 AM
  • lodhia
    if there is something great about sufism it is deviation. it no where tolerance. sufis were jehadis in the cloaks of saints. ignorant people dash their heads on the mazars. sufism is but bidat wal hawa. 
    ifsufism by an any angle is good you are bloat on the sufism.
    you didn't reply can your allah take avtar as pig, donkey, dog. does your allah residein the pig? is wahadatul wajood by any angle islamic? any evidance from you jumble book the quran and fabrications ahadith by your great imams? why you are so imbecile? is this your sufism you boast for? 
    your waris not against any evil of muslims it is only sectarian. you are advancing only your deviation under the cloack of greatness of sints. iknow many great saints. your sufisare not saints thyare criminals of islam . readthebook of dr shabbir the criminals of islam. islam a religion driven by criminals.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/22/2014 4:33:19 AM
  • OK Mr Lodhia,

    Since I asked you the question about GE, let me answer.

    What makes GE (or for that matter any other business) great, is that it is a company that is more than 100 years old,  with a consistent record of growth with profitability. There are only three parameters here 1. profitability 2. growth and 3 Over what period?  If we rank companies on these three criteria, you will find that they differ vastly from each other in the detail but no matter how great they may be in other respects such as say `innovation', unless they are consistently  profitable and keep growing, they do not survive over a long period. We may define a  thousand odd parameters to measure a business by, but unless these  result in growth with profit in the long run, there is no entity remaining to talk about.


    What is the objective of the TJ?  Let me quote a non Muslim who understands it so well! “And there’s no arguing with TJ’s success. The Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist organizations may castigate the organization for its disengagement from politics and for its lack of popular welfare and education programs, but one could argue that Tabligh is better than its detractors at keeping its eye on the real prize: renewing piety among Muslims and indoctrinating them with a strong sense of Islamic community that is global in scope.” Timothy R Furnish

    The TJ has a very simple program. It is to teach Muslims the basics of Islam and  follow the "pillars of Islam" viz belief, salat, zakat and sadqa, saum and haj besides inculcating good Muslim behaviour. 

    If you have read the Quran and understood it, you cannot fail to notice that the Quran repeatedly stresses on three things besides good deeds and they are belief, salat and charity.

    There were millions of Muslims in the subcontinent and Africa, who had no knowledge of Islam, who were taught the basics of Islam by the members of the  TJ. If the TJ has made millions follow the important tenets of Islam that are enjoined by the Quran and which was the mission of the Prophet to teach, besides inculcating a sense of community that is global in scope, isn't their achievement worthy of praise and have they not been continuing the mission of the Prophet? 

    Any other Jamat may have got diverted from its primary aim and got embroiled in local, national and international politics but the Jamat had the foresight to steer clear of all politics and controversy.

    The Jamat has succeeded in its basic objective of reviving piety among Muslims. It has continuously grown over the years in terms of numbers and geographical spread. It has remained peaceful and non controversial all through the turbulent times. While every other Jamat and Sangh was banned during the emergency, it is the only Jamat which has never been banned in India or elsewhere except Russia which bans every religious organization.

    Are  these reasons not enough for you to see greatness? However, if you are blinded by your sectarian animosity, you will continue to argue like a frenzied Islamophobe who can never accept that Islam has any virtue.
    By Observer - 2/22/2014 2:33:14 AM
  • Naseer Ahmed Saheb,

     

    Unfortunately, it is scholars like you who keep on covering the sins of those Muslims who deviated from the Holy Quran. Not only this, you call the missionary outfit like “Tablighi Jamaat” the greatest thing that ever happened to the Islamic world. What nonsense?

     

    I cannot debate with a scholar who is absolutely brainwashed. If you continue to keep on defending, then all of our fellow humans will continue to ask us questions. Then the simplest attack scholars like you will have, is to label all of them as “Islamophobes.

     

    You do not want to read any reports, you do not want to listen to another Islamic scholar, you do not want to listen to important YouTube links. This reminds of a saying, “Do not confused me with facts, I have got my mind made up.” Go ahead and run away from facing the harsh reality. What else can scholars like you offer to the Muslim youths? Nothing but to join the bandwagon of “Tablighi Jamaat,” abandon their family and go for a royal ride with a man-made book called “Faizal-e-Aamal” in their hands.  

     

    For now, I remain speechless and do not wish to continue with you on this subject matter. You can call me any names you want to, however, I will not change my views about your missionary outfit which is nothing but a secretive “Cult” period.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia    

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 1:51:34 AM
  • Naseer Ahmed Saheb,

     

    All the readers on this forum recognized you as an Islamic scholar. Why are you asking this “Dimwit” to define the greatness? Why don’t you explain to all of us?

     

    Please do the needful and oblige.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia 

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 1:35:35 AM
  • Now, Now Mr. Lodhia! You are behaving exactly like an Islamophobe would. You will now deluge us with anti TJ stuff that you find on the internet.

    By Observer - 2/22/2014 1:34:27 AM
  • Naseer Ahmed Saheb,

     

    On January 26, 2010, James Delinpole wrote as follows:

     

    Though Tablighi Jamaat isn't explicitly involved in terrorism, it's viewed by intelligence services as a gateway organization. A senior FBI official once described it as "a recruiting ground for Al Qaeda" and the French secret services called it "the antechamber for fundamentalism." A disturbing number of its adherents have gone on to do very bad things. Among its alumni are shoe bomber Richard Reid, white American jihadist John Walker Lindh, spree killer John Allen Muhammad, and dirty bomb plotter Jose Padilla.


    The reason we know so little about it is because that is TJ's policy. It communicates with its members only by word of mouth, meaning that there are no propaganda journals or incriminating websites which might reveal its goals and scare the liberal useful idiots.  

     

    Is this the “Greatness” you are talking about, Naseer Saheb?

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 1:31:30 AM
  • Mr Lodhia, unless we agree on a definition of greatness, you will go on and on like a crazed fanatic repeating yourself  "list all the “Greatness” of the “Tablighi Jamaat!!!

     

    So don’t be afraid, calm yourself down and make an attempt to define if not GE, then any other organization that you consider great, and list the reasons or simply give your definition of greatness.

    By Observer - 2/22/2014 1:27:00 AM
  • Naseer Ahmed Saheb,

     

    “Great Success” of what? Does the long bearded young Muslims travelling around the globe make you a very happy Muslim or what is it? What success are you talking about? Have any one of the Tableeghis turned out to be a great leader of a Muslim nation.

     

    For crying out loud, do not talk about General Electric, Apple, Coca Cola or Boeing. Those companies are not run by the so-called “Dimwits. They are run by young men and women who graduated with college degree and are proud to be part of a company.

     

    If you call “Tablighi Jamaat” a great success, then show me how and where they have achieved it? Why are you having so much difficulty? No Naseer Saheb, I do have not have any difficulty in understanding. It is you who have a problem in comprehending what I am trying to relay to you.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia         

       

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 1:20:44 AM
  • First let me understand the nature of your difficulty in getting it.

    Can you tell me what makes GE a great company? Your answer will help me understand what you are looking for in my answer and why you are unable to see why I call the TJ a great success.
    By Observer - 2/22/2014 12:54:41 AM
  • Naseer Ahmed Saheb,

     

    KINDLY LIST ALL THE GREATNESS OF TABLIGHI JAMAAT. WHY ARE YOU SO AFRAID? THE HELL WITH THE AQEEDAH. READ WHAT I AM WRITING, MR. OBSERVER?

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 12:44:15 AM
  • Mr dimwit Lodhia,

    All that you are concerned with is Aqeedah. Can a person obsessed with Aqeedah ever have meaningful inter faith relationship? If you have such an obsession with the Aqeedah of the TJ, I can imagine the problems that you have with the people of other religions!
    By Observer - 2/22/2014 12:33:39 AM
  • Mr Lodhia, 

    If you used your head, you will notice that he cites the Quran and the hadiths and not Fazail Aamal. Using your 'logic', an Islamophobe can cite his case to say 'see what Islam and reading of the Quran and Hadith' has done to him and to Suhail and other apostates. Like I said before, I see no difference between you and an Islamophobe. The difference is only in the detail. Otherwise you share the same characteristics, the same thinking and 'logic' and therefore your arguments and reasoning is similar.



    By Observer - 2/22/2014 12:27:57 AM
  • Naseer Ahmed Saheb,

     

    I have been repeatedly asking you to list all the “Greatness” of the “Tablighi Jamaat.What don’t you understand?

     

    If you cannot recognize greatness and express appreciation for it …… then

     

    Stop whining, please. Share the details of greatness with the rest of the readers. Forget the peaceful nature. You are only observing, but not reading what is happening inside the Jamaat. Your hollow praise about the greatness is all too visible. You cannot back up your claim. What a shame?  

     

    Having said this, you simply do not want to hear any constructive criticism of your favorite missionary outfit. That’s exactly where your problem lies whether you like to hear it or not, Mr. Observer or Naseer Ahmed or whoever.  

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia  

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 12:24:59 AM
  • Naseer Saheb,

     

    Do want to know what is a downright dirty comment? Read what Pseudo Rational wrote in his response to me.

     

    Now you tell me what is wrong with your head given that we all know what is wrong with his. Where did he learn to be so abusive? You know for fact that he admits that it was his days with “Tablighi Jamaat” that messed up his brains.

     

    Wake up, Naseer Saheb. There will be millions more young Muslims who will turn just like another Pseudo Rational. Enough of your continuous bragging about a missionary outfit run by “The Army Of Darkness.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia    

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 12:14:18 AM
  • Mr dimwit Lodhia,

    Since you are unable to get it, let me repeat it:

    Mr Lodhia, if you have been carefully listening to what I have been saying, I am not concerned with the Aqeedah of the Jamat. For all I care, they could be Shia, Ahmediyas, Barelvi, Christian, Jew or Hindu. The achievement of the Jamat is maintaining its peaceful nature despite the large number, geographical spread and number of years which makes it a truly great achievement which deserves our admiration.

    If you cannot recognize greatness and express appreciation for it, and if you  only keep stoking your sectarian animosities, then the difference between you and an Islamophobe is only in the detail.

    If you understand the dictionary meaning of "raving and ranting" then you would realise that the one who opposes which is yourself who raves and rants and not an admirer which is myself? You are the one who is raving and ranting about the Jamat and can't lay off even when you have nothing meaningful to say.

    By Observer - 2/22/2014 12:08:03 AM
  • Naseer Saheb,

     

    Why are you so much emotionally driven about your “Tablighi Jamaat”? Care to share your feelings instead of ranting and raving about the cheap comments. Are you are devout believer of “Faizal-e-Aalam”? Is that what offended you? Do you recall the fact that  you did not wanted to give any input from the man-made book? Now when I went through the trouble to jot some crucial points, you got upset for nothing. That’s is grossly unfair.    

     

    You know very well that you remain vague all the way through in defining the “Greatness” of the missionary organization which you admire immensely. You of all should never have any trouble listing all the greatness achieved thus far in more than eight years of their existence.    

     

    All you need to do is to make a convincing argument so that I will be convinced about all the good works done by the “Tableeghis. Better yet, why not read some comments from the writers who think otherwise. Never mind, the cheap comments. You should at least try to be realistic for change.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia  

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/22/2014 12:07:35 AM
  • rafiq lodhia
    can god personify as, pig,  dog, idol in Islam? can a sufi cross the station of hz mohammed in Islam? is it ok to say let us bow our head before the pig because it is God in the pig. is it islam? 
    sufis are greatest mushriks on the surface of the earth. they can be muslim if you change the definition of tauheed and shirk.
    now a routed commentator will say how do you believe in it if you are an apostate. i am saying on the basis of my knowledge.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 2/21/2014 10:09:16 PM
  • To: All Respected Readers on the “New Age Islam” forum.

     

    Tableeghi Jamaat: Teachings of Shirk in the Book “Fadhaa’il ‘A’maal”

     

    Compiled by Abu  Muawiya as-Salafi.

     

    Yet the author of Fadhail ‘Amaal Zakaria Kandalvi fabricates the biggest lie, insult against the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) that even the Kuffar might not have done. Kandalvi writes on p.115, Incident no (Hikayat) - 50, Fadhail Durood(last incident or Hikayat in Fadhail ‘Amaal, Vol.I). He is reporting the incident of some  unkown person by the name of “Maulana Jami.”

     

    “Maulana Jami once set out for Haj and had the intention to stand near the grave of the Messenger of Allah and recite poetry over the grave. Upon completion of the Haj, he set out for Madinah. The Amir of  Madinah saw the Prophet in his dream and the Prophet instructed him to prevent Jami from coming to Madinah. The Amir tightened security but zeal and “Ishq” (note: the word Ishq is in used for that love which is accompanied with lust!) for visiting the Prophet had completely overtaken him and he continued his way to Madinah. The Amir again saw the Prophet in his dream and instructed him not to let Jami in. The Amir scrambled his men and arrested Jami. He was manhandled and thrown into prison. The Amir then saw the Prophet for the third time and informed the Amir that he (Jami) is no criminal but he had composed a few lines of poetry which he intended to recite over my grave and had he done so (i.e able to recite the poem over the grave) my hand would have come out of the grave to greet him and this would have caused fitnah. Hence, Jami was taken out of prison with honour and respect bestowed upon him.”

     

    Astaghfirullah! What shameless, deliberate lies! Had Zakaria no guilt or fear of fabricating such tremendous lies and attributing it to the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) in the pathetic manner that he has done above? He says he cannot remember which book it is in?! And then invites his followers to inform him if he is mistaken?! Then why narrate it in the first place – making a clear lie upon the Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) – let alone what it contains of

    misguidance!!

     

    http://www.thenoblequran.com/sps/downloads/pdf/GRV020004.pdf

     

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/21/2014 8:46:36 PM
  • To: All Respected Readers on the “New Age Islam” forum.

     

    An honest Advice to Tableeghi Jamaat by Dr Israr Ahmed

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgZtlAIPR28

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/21/2014 8:10:09 PM
  • Naseer Saheb,

     

    Your weak rebuttal only confirms that you are unable to pinpoint the “Greatness” of your favorite “Tablighi Jamaat.

     

    You wrote, “So what of Fazail-e-Aamal?” This answer can merely be translated as you simply do not care if anything is wrong in that book. Were you part of the “Jamaat” as a young man? This strong bond of yours must have a link somewhere along the line. Why would you not be at least a little bit critical of the book, that is, in fact a direct opposite to our Holy Quran?  

     

    May I ask you, "10 Million” strong of what? From all I gather is that the “Jamaat” is nothing but a “Cult. It has been described by the five writers in their article, as the  “Army of Darkness.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1526793/Army-of-darkness.html. Here is what they have to say:

     

    The modern leadership of the Tablighi is one of its core mysteries. After Kandhalawi's death in 1944, control passed to his son, Muhammed Yusuf, who led a dramatic expansion across the sub-continent until his own death in 1965. It is understood that real power is still held by family members, although how it is exercised, and by whom, remains largely unknown.

          

    Naseer Saheb, as for their greatness which you repeatedly refer to, then why there lies some sort of a hidden power which remains mysterious up until this day?

     

    Granted that you will again rant and rave about this wonderful missionary movement, but there is nothing one can do to change your mind. I do not think anyone will care to. After all, quite a number of readers on this particular forum are coming to learn as to why I have issues with commentators and religious organizations hiding their true identities.

     

    Strangely, you mentioned that, “If one's aamal reflect the whole of the Quran consistently through one's life, then one has obviously reached perfection and deserve the highest place.” Now my final question to you is, “Aamal Of Which Personality?” The real person or his/her hidden identity? Think about it, Naseer Saheb.

      

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia 


    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/21/2014 8:02:43 PM
  • Mr Lodhia,

    We have enough proof that those who are bent on finding flaws will never see any good in anything. We have such proof with verses from the Quran itself so what of 'Fazail Aamal'? Even after I have said that the degree to which one's aamal reflect the Quran, decides the level one attains in paradise, you don't get it. If one's aamal reflect the whole of the Quran consistently through one's life, then one has obviously reached perfection and deserve the highest place. 

    Moreover, I have made it clear that it is not Aqeedah that I am interested in. For all I care, instead of a Jamat, it could have been a Sangh promoting the purest form of Hindu piety with a matching  record of  90 years of peaceful, apolitical and non controversial existence even in the face of developments that have radicalized other sections of the same community and going through similar stress of external aggression and wars with a similar following of 10 million spread across the world, and I would have similarly praised it.

     

    By Observer - 2/21/2014 4:11:00 AM
  • Good Afternoon Naseer Ahmed Saheb,

     

    Hardly a few meaningful posts can be seen. You know I personally opened the pages of the book titled, “Fazail-e-Aamal” and typed those paragraphs and then posted them. No, it was not taken from someone else criticism.

     

    Your response is vague. I am not sure if you being an ardent admirer of “Tablighi Jamaat” realize that this book is running parallel to our Holy Quran in a sense that it is full of Hadiths with few Quranic verses. Now what do you call such an emphasis on a man-made book versus the Divine book? Little wonder that the author came up with an idea of “Corrupted Views. Your guess is as good as mine!

     

    Another point you somehow missed out is, “only through these learned personages that Allah Ta’ala has blessed us with the true knowledge of Islam.” Surely, you will agree with me that in Islam priesthood is forbidden. Yet the author is in direct contradiction to the commandments of our Holy Quran.

     

    Then again, if reciting the highest number of “ayaats” can place a Muslim in the highest level in “Jannat-ul-Firdaus, then the very commandment of rewarding good deeds by Almighty Allah gets completely nullified. Such a twisted theory is also in total violation of our Holy Quran. Not sure what you are smoking, but there is something wrong if scholars like you endorse such a theory of salvation.

     

    Now can you name the so-called “Greatness of the Tablighees”? What great thing have they performed in the last eight years or so? From all I know, young Muslims have been brainwashed and turned into “Thoughtless Devotees” who have literally abandoned the act of “Amr bin maruf wa nahi anil munkar” (enjoining the good and forbidding the evil).

     

    Do you think that leaving one’s own family members who are in need or sick is a good thing to do? Then again, what have so many millions of Muslims marching in groups have collectively accomplished to raise their voice of concern about the bloody “Jihad” that is going on  in the Islamic world? The primary task of any missionary work is to call upon humans to enjoin good and forbid evil. Nay, these thoughtless Islamic missionaries simply want to stay aloof and display their indifference towards anything that hurts the image of Islam. Their main concern is “Self-Salvation” by following a man-made book and hanging around mosques praying, fasting and eating. I am sorry to say that they are absolutely and positively not contributing anything to enhance the Islamic civilization.         

    Finally, let’s call spade a spade, Naseer Saheb. Sadly, you remain adamant and do not want to hear any constructive criticism, period. I am perfectly prepared for your rebuttal which will include all sorts of names of different sects. Did you ever notice my involving names of various Muslim sects? Common sense should dictate to us that something is truly wrong with the missionary work that relies on a book called “Fazail-e-Aamal” and not on the Holy Quran. The word to the wise is sufficient.  

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/21/2014 1:56:24 AM
  • Mr Lodhia,

    Learn to space out your posts rather than deluging the forum. Stick to no more than 3 a day. That will help you write meaningful posts.

    On your last post, have you read the book or have you picked it up from someone else's criticism of the book? There is plenty of criticism floating around which one can pick up without actually reading from the book. 

    I am saying this because there is far more to what you have said on the reading of the Quran than what you say.

    My understanding based upon my reading is that depending upon the number of ayats a person has consistently acted upon in his life, his stages in heaven will be elevated accordingly. So if a person's complete life on this earth was a personification of the Quran, he will attain the highest level. Obviously this can be the prophet (pbuh) alone whose example the Quran itself mentions as the best example to follow.

    I hope you get it.

    Respect for your teachers is nothing new especially in Sufi philosophy. You will find a number of stories which are common among Sufis - stories of karamat. I don't subscribe to belief in karamat.

    Mr Lodhia, if you have been carefully listening to what I have been saying, I am not concerned with the Aqeedah of the Jamat. For all I care, they could be Shia, Ahmediyas or Barelvi. The achievement of the Jamat is maintaining its peaceful nature despite the large number, geographical spread and number of years which makes it a truly great achievement which deserves are admiration.

    If you cannot recognize greatness and and express appreciation for it, and only keep up stoking your sectarian animosities, then there is not much that we can hope from NAI.



    By Observer - 2/21/2014 12:46:57 AM
  • Naseer Ahmed Saheb,

     

    Here comes another twister which is mind boggling to say the least. Who is Mulla Ali Qari? In the book “Fazail-e-Aamal” in section, “Holy Virtues of the Holy Quran - Page No. 35,” the two paragraphs are sort of shocking. It is as follows:

     

    “According to Mulla Ali Qari, it is mentioned in a ‘hadith’ that there is no level in ‘Jannat’ higher than that given to the reader of the Quran. So the readers will ascend in proportion to the number of ‘ayaat’ recited by them in the world. ‘Allamah Dani (Rahmatullan alaih) says that authorities agree that there are six thousand ‘ayaat’ in the Quran. But there is some difference of opinion about the numbers over and above six thousand. These are variously reported to be 204, 14, 19, 25, 36.

     

    It is written in ‘Sharah-ul-Ihya’ that each ‘ayat’ correspondonds to a higher level in Paradise. So a reader will be asked to ascend according to his recitation. One who reads the whole of the Quran will attain the highest level in Paradise. And one who knows only a part of the Quran will rise up to the proportionate level. In brief, the stage or level reached will be fixed by the number of ‘ayaat’ recited.”

     

    Oh well, this is no time to be sarcastic as such claims raised real serious issue about the very Jamaat which you talk so highly about. May be you might enlightened so many readers on this “New Age Islam” forum as a staunch defender of the Tablighi Jamaat. The question of the day is, “Is such an elevation to Jannat been taught to the Tableeghis? If so, then you are right. Millions are joining every day and reciting Holy Quran to an easy entry to the gates of heavens. You are right about the peaceful nature of this missionary group. This is it. Keep roaming around the world, preach few good words to fellow Muslims, have a party, leave home for four months and the hell with the sick family members or pregnant wife left behind. Bravo!        

            

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia  

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/20/2014 9:27:42 PM
  • Naseer Saheb,

     

    From the so-called “General Principles, Point No. 3 was kind of interesting. It is as follows:

     

    (3) Conversations, talks and discussions must be conducted in soft and persuasive tones, using simple and polite language. All types of displeasure with each other must be avoided. The “ulema-e-karam” (scholars of Muslim scriptures) must be held in high respect and esteem as we usually display for the “Holy Quran” and “Hadis,” because, it is through these learned personages that Allah Ta’ala has blessed us with the true knowledge of Islam and enlightenment. Any disrespect towards them, however insignificant, may amount to contempt of Islam itself, which in turn may provoke the wrath of Allan Ta’ala for the whole community.”

     

    How about that? What is the deal here with the principles of the “Great Jamaat” which you brag about all the time, Naseer Saheb?

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia   

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/20/2014 8:55:43 PM
  • Good Morning Naseer Saheb,

     

    No. I have not read “Fazail-e-Aamal” in its entirety. I merely glanced at few pages.

     

    Yes. Your response implies that you have not read it either. Giving straight answer should not be difficult.

     

    Now here is what I noticed in the book which was kind of awkward. It reads as follows:

     

    The acts of Prophet (Sallallah alaihe wasallam) are very good guide for our practice. The Prophet (Sallallah alaihe wasallam) says:

     

    “I have been given the Quran and also other commandments. Beware of the time, which is coming shortly when carefree people sitting on their couches will say, ‘Stick to the Quran only. Carry out only the commandments contained therein.”

     

    Such corrupted views are generally inspired by arrogant due to wealth, and perhaps that is why the word “Carefree” is used for such people.”

     

    Can you please be kind enough to elaborate on what it the real meaning of the two words “Corrupted Views”?

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/20/2014 8:45:16 PM
  • Mr Lodhai,
    if you are not a liar, then quote where I have asked Rational to join with me.

    My counter question to you is, have you read the Fazail Ammal in its entirety? If yes, then say what you want to say about it and be done with it. For that you don't  have to know whether I have read it or not. Don't expect me to answer questions that I consider irrelevant. 


    By Observer - 2/20/2014 7:07:54 PM
  • Naseer Ahmed Saheb,

     

    May I humbly ask, “What cheap points and revenge are you talking about?” My only objective is to extract the “Truth. If anyone talks cheap about Islam and the Prophet of Islam, then I have all the right in the world to speak my mind.

     

    I could care less if you team up with Pseudo Rational to respond to me about the subject matter “Tablighi Jamaat. All I have asked you for is, “Did you read ‘Faizail-e-Amal’ in its entirety?”

     

    This is a relatively simple question and it can easily be answered in “yes” or “no.”  How else can I behave like a decent human being? You tell me, Naseer Saheb, as I am all ears.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia

        

     

    Naseer Ahmed Saheb,

     

    You wrote, “The writer of Fazail-e-Amal, Moulana Zakariyah is the son-in-law of Moulana Ilyas (founder of TJ).”

     

    My question to you is, “Did you read this book in its entirety?” Let me know so that I can understand as to what extent you have studied it.

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia  - 2/20/2014 7:02:21 AM

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 2/20/2014 2:42:03 PM
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    Your Daily Muslim: Abdul-Aziz al-Deobandi         

     

    http://yourdailymuslim.com/2013/12/18/your-daily-muslim-abdul-aziz-al-deobandi/

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 12/19/2013 11:17:51 AM
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    Challenging the Tabligi Jamaat’s ‘Olymics” Mosque      

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDuXmhi9ZC4

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 12/18/2013 9:09:10 PM
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    The Mega Mosque & Tabligi Jamaat          

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdZ-Yf9j9Wo

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 12/18/2013 9:02:49 PM
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    Kya Tabligi Jamaat Haq Par Hai     

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEEnjSAFFa0

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 12/18/2013 8:46:57 PM
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    Deobandi Tableeghi Jamaat            

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHMqiXRzGsY

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 12/18/2013 8:39:48 PM
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    How To Deal With Jamaat At-Tabligh       

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0-6Q2rcigI

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 12/18/2013 8:32:23 PM
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    Tablighi Jamat’s Hidden Beliefs!

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3XzrDBAYfY

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 12/18/2013 8:23:15 PM
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    Channel 4 Report on Tableeghi Jamaat

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98PBh26t11o

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 12/18/2013 8:20:35 PM
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    Deobandi Tableeghi Jamaat Exposed

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRGuaR-qMvw

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 12/18/2013 8:03:04 PM
  • Mr Lodhia, Your comments are once again becoming personal and rude.
    I must thank you for your posts, which provide me an opportunity to write a glowing article on the 'Tablighi Jamat, through the eyes of its ‘critics'. I could have done that without your posts also, but that would not have been even 1% as effective as basing them on your posts, since you cannot wriggle out from accepting the conclusions which are based on your posts.
    Briefly, what comes through your posts is the following:
    The antecedents of the Jamat are undeniably sufi. The writer of Fazail-e-Amal, Moulana Zakariyah is the son-in-law of Moulana Ilyas (founder of TJ) . He was a Sufi and was given the Khilafah of all the four Sufi Tareeqahs by Moulana Khalil Ahmad Saharanpuri. The book is exclusively followed by the TJ and has been heavily criticized by many scholars for its `Sufi' teachings. One scholar has thoroughly `exposed' the teachings as conforming to the concept of waḥdat al-wujūd.   Mr Sultan Shahin has said that the concept of waḥdat al-wujūd is what makes a Sufi inclusive, since if God is in every person and in everything, then the creed is to love all people and things. That puts paid to the baseless allegation that they are Wahabis who believe in hating all mankind except their own kind.
    I also quote from your posts "Their misinterpretation of some Qur’aanic verses in a manner that was not intended by Allah. For example they interpret the verses on jihad as referring to “going out for da’wah”. The verses which mentioned the word khurooj (going out) etc. are interpreted by them as meaning going out for da’wah."
    I agree. That is the way the TJ and Sufis interpret the verse.
    Again, I quote from your post: “Examples of people making the jump from TJ to radical Islam are the two leading members of the cell responsible for the July 7, 2005, London bombings -- Mohammed Siddique Khan and Shahzad Tanweer. Both had life-changing experiences through their exposure to TJ, though by 2001 the men had left the Tablighi mosque they had been attending in the British city of Beeston, because they found it to be too apolitical. They apparently were frustrated by the mosque's elders, who forbid the discussion of politics in the mosque."
    The apolitical nature of the TJ and active discouragement to any politics in their mosques comes out very clearly in the above. Many of your other posts are of a similar nature. The US government, although apprehensive of the Jamat on account of its large following, has however found the Jamat to be  legitimate. TJ not only ostracizes any members who join jihadist groups but also its privatization of faith (apolitical nature) makes it compatible with modernity. TJ preaches jihad as “personal purification,” not holy war; many radical Islamic groups openly criticize TJ for its apolitical and non-violent teachings; and Wahhabi online fatwas include TJ in a list of heretical groups, in the same category as Shias. A Sufi/Barelvi site Noore Madinah, also criticise the TJ for eschewing violent Jihad and for cooperating with every “Kafir” government across the world.
    “And there’s no arguing with TJ’s success. The Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist organizations may castigate the organization for its disengagement from politics and for its lack of popular welfare and education programs, but one could argue that Tabligh is better than its detractors at keeping its eye on the real prize: renewing piety among Muslims and indoctrinating them with a strong sense of Islamic community that is global in scope.” Timothy R Furnish writing in the journal of International Security Affairs.
    It’s apolitical and pacifist nature is beyond doubt and it has a history of 84 years to prove it. One may not like it or join it, but opposing the TJ is tantamount to opposing what it stands for viz,  “renewing piety among Muslims and indoctrinating them with a strong sense of Islamic community that is global in scope.” By Observer - 12/2/2013 2:11:02 AM
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    Tabighi Jamaat: The Premier Latent Network

     

    Though not supportive of violence itself or recognized as a terrorist group by any Western government, the TIJ is a fundamentalist movement birthed from the same Islamic school that later spawned the Taliban and Harakat ul-Mujahideen. Other than a small cadre of religious scholars in Pakistan, the group lacks organizational structure, is extremely secretive; stresses individual adherence to a strict fundamentalist interpretation of Islam; and may possess the most active propagation imperative for any modern Islamic organization.

     

    Tabligh Jamaat is also vehemently apolitical, a facet that has traditionally exempted the movement from repression from even the most paranoid of governments, but today serves more to shield the group from accusations that it is an active supporter of terrorism.

     

    Terrorist organizations readily exploit these deficiencies, and as counter-terrorism officials become more tactically adept, the advantages of latent Islamic networks such as Tabligh Jamaat in recruiting members, raising capital, and moving clandestinely will become ever more crucial.

     

    The Tabligh Jamaat is an Islamic fundamentalist movement begun in India by Maulana Muhammad Ilyas. Similar to the more infamous Wahhabi sect started by Ibn Wahhab on the Arabian Peninsula more than a century before, Ilyas formed the Tablighi Jamaat to counter what he saw as the perversion of Islamic practice by a rising tide of Hindu influence. Like Wahhab, Ilyas’ brand of Islamic revival evolved out of pre-existing Islamic teachings, in this case, those of the Deobandi madrassas of present day India and Pakistan. These same schools later bred such notables as the Taliban and Harkat ul-Mujahideen (HUT), and though the Tablighi Jamaat lacks the overt, violent ambitions of these organizations, the similarities in their fundamentalist message and political orientation are compelling.

     

    The Tablighi emphasis face-to-face, door-to-door proselytization, shunning propagation via print media and the internet, a practice that has led some to jokingly refer to them as the “Jehovah’s Witness of Islam.”

     

    Tablighi elders’ traditional quietism can be explained both as being in accordance with the declared apolitical stance of the TIJ and as an effort to avoid the jurisprudence debates that have long plagued Islam. It could also be viewed as a shrewd attempt to deflect attention and criticism from the organization. Until recently, the difficulty in penetrating the Tabligh’s diffuse and disjointed network and its apolitical front had been enough to stymie public examination of the organization behind the movement. Today, this same secrecy is drawing the suspicion of law enforcement authorities.

     

    Tabligh members – many Western scholars – are quick to denounce any tie between the organization and terrorism, often citing the group’s focus on individual religiosity over societal transformation and vocal disdain for politics. Those members implicated in terrorist plots, they argue, represent a miniscule percentage of TIJ adherents. This may be true, but when viewed as the percentage of terror plots involving people somehow connected to the Tablighi, the correlation is unmistakable. Some see this connection as evidence Tablighi Jamaat is consciously driving the spread of jihadism across the Western world.

     

    The refusal of what Tablighi leadership that does not exist to pass judgment on the actions of its members or the exploitation of its movement compounds this reality, and while some may contend that this unfairly implies intent on the part of the leadership, by refusing to condemn (or even acknowledge, in many cases) the terrorist acts of its members the TIJ acquires a level of agency in the process. The presence of terrorists and terrorist recruiters with the TIJ ranks is not solely due to the decentralized nature of the TIJ as an organization, it is also a product of the organization’s unwillingness to affect discipline within its ranks, a fault that lies squarely on the shoulders of the Tablighi leadership in Raiwind and its emirs abroad

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 12/1/2013 5:46:20 PM
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    Defending the Tablighi Jamaat

     

    http://www.tauheed-sunnat.com/sunnat/content/defending-tablighi-jamaat

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/30/2013 9:37:14 PM
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    The Tabligh Challenge

     

    http://www.securityaffairs.org/issues/2010/19/furnish.php

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/30/2013 9:26:30 PM
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    The Muslim YMCA : by Robert VerBruggen - 12.01.2006

     

    http://www.islam786.com/tablighijamaat.htm

     

    Tabligh Jamaat is far from a household name, but the reach and nature of the worldwide evangelical Muslim organization poses complex challenges to U.S. counter-terrorism officials, The Nixon Center’s Alexis Debat and the Middle East Institute’s Marvin G. Weinbaum argued Thursday.

     

    The organization is present in more than 80 countries, and about 99.9 percent of its activities are legitimate, peaceful and apolitical, Debat said. “It’s dedicated to improving society through individual development”, said Debat, who returned from a trip to Pakistan two weeks ago. “They claim it’s not a political goal, but I’d argue that trying to change a society’s values is a political project, philosophically speaking.”

     

    The central goal is Muslim withdrawal from Western society.

     

    “Their main activity is sending preachers—for four days, ten days, forty days, four months—to preach their brand of Islam in another community”, Debat said. They also hold gatherings in Bangladesh and Pakistan. The group’s structure is both chaotic and organized. Members come from all ethnic and national Muslim groups, and it is easy to form a “Jamaat” unit with 10 or more people.

     

    Yet there is a central hierarchy, with each unit led by an “emir.” The top-tier leadership has stayed in one family since the group’s founding in the mid-to-late 1920s.

     

    Tabligh Jamaat’s activities are incredibly secretive, Weinbaum added.

     

    However benign most of the group’s activities may be, they offer many opportunities for terrorists. “It’s a vehicle for moving money, moving people and organizing travel and recruiting”, Debat said.

     

    While in Pakistan, Debat was able to attend a massive Muslim gathering (an “ijtima”) after a guard let him in upon learning he is French, though afterwards the expert was followed by about six different individuals, and questioned about his intentions in Pakistan by about 40 people. “It’s a series of flat fields, with 1.8 million people in tents praying, and there’s a mosque and a compound”, Debat said. “I was told that, in the compound, Al-Qaeda came to raise money from Arab sheikhs and recruit foreign Muslims.”

     

    Dozens of shops sold nothing but Osama bin Laden posters.

     

    Much of the problem lies in the fact that leaders cannot attack Tabligh Jamaat. Weinbaum said that would be akin to “cracking down on the YMCA” in Muslims’ eyes. In addition, terrorists can pose as Tabligh Jamaat evangelists to access other countries. “It’s been hijacked by elements that realize the opportunity it presents”, Weinbaum said. “It’s not unlike the mosque or the madrassa—this is fertile ground, where terrorists can create a mindset among people who are susceptible. They can send the message that if you really want to act on your faith, there are places you can go.”

     

    As with mosques and madrassas, though, Weinbaum cautioned against assuming the organization causes terrorism in itself.

     

    “If a terrorist has ties to Tabligh Jamaat, that doesn’t mean that’s where he learned his trade”, he said. “It just shows it’s becoming universal, a rite of passage for everyone.”

     

    Dealing with the organization’s terrorism connections could prove

    difficult for U.S. officials.

     

    “The question is how to root out the 0.1 percent that are terrorists without antagonizing the rest of the community”, Debat said. “It can let terrorists paint the issue as the West versus Islam, and that serves their purposes.” Weinbaum said political change in Pakistan is a prerequisite to addressing the threat. “Pervez Musharraf could put more pressure on them, by bringing up how they’ve been abused by the terrorist element”, he said. “Essentially, we want to keep them from being hijacked.”

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/30/2013 7:55:34 PM
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    A Muslim Missionary Group Draws New Scrutiny in U.S.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/14/us/a-muslim-missionary-group-draws-new-scrutiny-in-us.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

    But law enforcement officials and moderate Muslim scholars say that disengagement from society is what worries them most about the Tablighi Jamaat.

    ''You teach people to exclude themselves, that they don't fit in, that the modern world is an aberration, an offense, some form of blasphemy,'' said Khaled Abou El Fadl, a professor of Islamic law at U.C.L.A. ''By preparing people in this fashion, you are preparing them to be in a state of warfare against this world.''

    Ripe for Exploitation?

    Professor El Fadl said he spoke from experience, having briefly joined the group as a teenager in Cairo about 20 years ago. ''I don't believe there's a sinister plot where they're in bed with Osama bin Laden but are hiding it,'' Professor El Fadl said. ''But I think that militants exploit the alienated and withdrawn social attitude created by the Tablighis by fishing in the Tablighi pond.''

    Some Muslim groups have long criticized the Tablighi Jamaat for its official refusal to take a stand on the causes that have inflamed the Muslim world, from the Afghan holy war against the Soviet Union in the 1980's to the more recent wars over Kashmir, Chechnya and Bosnia.

    But investigators in America and elsewhere say more violent groups have been well served by the Tablighi Jamaat's apolitical stance and ability to move missionaries around countries and across borders.

    ''There may be groups that do not actually profess its basic ideology and profound religiosity and yet use the cover of the Tablighi Jamaat in order to evade scrutiny of the security forces, knowing full well that the Jamaat would not take a public stance against any defectors,'' the Canadian intelligence service said in a recent analysis.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/30/2013 7:42:55 PM
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    Exposing The Deobandis and Tableeghi Jamaat

    http://ideoband.wordpress.com

    Though Tableeghis Propagate So Much Fazail-e-Aamaal, Do They Themselves Read It???

    I Guess No! Forget About Guessing, I Am Sure The Majority Don’t Actually Read It.

    Just Ask Your Friends, Relatives, Etc Who Has Gone In Jamaat With Them For Atleast 40 Days or 4 Month.
    Just Ask Them A Simple Question What Is Tauhid/Tawheed? Majority Will Hear This Word For The First Time

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/30/2013 7:27:17 PM
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    Hussain Salem Mohammad Almerfedi Petitioner, v.

    Barack Obama, President of the United States, et al, Respondents

     

    http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2010/07/23/21/almerfedi.source.prod_affiliate.56.pdf

     

    The government also asserts that petiotioner’s active association with Jama’at Tablighi – an Islamic missionary organization that the government says provides logistical support and operational coverage to terrorist organizations – further justifies petitioner’s lawful detention.

     

    His plans, as he explains it, was to travel from Yemen to Pakistan, a trip that was relatively inexpensive and easy to make, and then to associate himself with the Islamic missionary group Jam’at Tabligh (“JT”), which he hoped would fund and facilitate a missionary trip for him to Europe.  

     

    JT is a complex organization. The Islamic scholar, Dr. Qamar-ul Huda, explains that JT originated in British India as a response to aggressive conversion campaign by Hindu fundamentalist and Christian religious groups. Its emergence was part of a broader trend of Islamic revivalism or the reaffirmation of faith and Muslim cultural identity.

     

    JI hosts an annual meeting in Raiwind, Pakistan that attracts approximately one million people from 85 countries, the second largest gathering of Muslims after the pilgrimage to Mecca.

     

    The teachings of Jt emphasize internal change, not political doctrine.

     

    The government’s own intelligence documents describes JT as “Legitimate Islamic missionary group.” The government argues, however, that although JT functions as a legitimate organization, Islamic extremists worldwide, including al Qaeda, have infiltrated it and have used it as a cover for terrorist activities.

     The United States government has classified JT as a ______ Terrorist Support Entity, which means that government believes it has “demonstrated intent and willingness to provide financial support to terrorist organizations willing to attack U.S. persons or interests, or provide willing operational support to _______ terrorist groups.”  

    An intelligence report _______ states that the “Tabligh Jamaat organization has been supporting Islamic terrorist groups in South and Southeast Asia under the cover of conducting religious activities. The group is closely aligned with other Pakistani terrorist organizations and the Al-Qaida network.

    The court has no reason to question any of these assertions.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/30/2013 5:18:46 PM
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    The Jihadist Threat in France

     

    http://www.currenttrends.org/research/detail/the-jihadist-threat-in-france

     

    The latest counterterrorist operation in France points out the ambiguous role of tabligh

    in participating and waging jihad. While some tabligh centers may be used by anonymous terrorist operatives simply to take advantage of the group’s well-recognized apolitical line, selected tabligh believers are indeed sent to attend Pakistani madrassas – known by the intelligence community to be safe haven for terrorists – in order to deepen their religious knowledge. Police sources also indicate that at these madrassas a different kind of selection takes place, between those who pursue “intellectual” and “operational” vocations. Those in the latter category may be sent to training camps, following the paths of French convert Herve Djamel Laiseau, who was found frozen to death in Afghanistan, or American convert John Walker Lindh, arrested in 2001 while fighting American and the Northern Aliance forces in Afghanistan. 

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/30/2013 4:48:56 PM
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    The Fundamentals of Islamic Extremism

     

    http://info.publicintelligence.net/NCIS-IslamicExtremism.pdf

     

    The connection between Tablighi Jamat and the arrest and convictions of several terrorists in the United States has demonstrated a connection to transnational terrorism. These arrests include Iyman Faris, John Walker-Lindh, and the Lackawanna Six. In each of these cases, the TJ was a vehicle that led to their radicalization and their subsequent commitment to extremism, and/or was used as cover for their jihad activities. As a result, Faris, Walker-Lindh, and the men from Lackawanna traveled to Pakistan and Afghanistan in pursuit of their religious study, made a commitment to jihad, and received training at organized terrorist training camps. Similarly, while there has been no direct connection to the TJ, the recent arrest of Hamid Hayat in Lodi, California illustrates a connection between the study of Islam, the path to extremism, and the commitment to jihad. Hayat allegedly admitted to traveling to Pakistan where he studied in a madrassah before entering a terrorist training camp in 2004. Upon the completion of his training, he returned to the US. This case is similar to Faris, Lackawanna, and others who have also been arrested on terrorism charges and who have followed a similar path for recruitment and radicalization.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/30/2013 4:43:33 PM
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    Fazail-e-Amaal Ki Haqeeqat – Lecture by Sheikh Touseef Ur Rahman

     

    http://www.syedtauseef.com/upload/book/Fazail-e-Amaal%20ki%20Haqeeqat_English.pdf

     

    When this Ummah has left ALLAH’s book, holding fast to ‘Behesty Zawar’, ‘Fazail-e-Amaal’ … What was the result? It led this Ummah to destruction. And humiliation was imposed upon them by ALLAH. They got humiliated in every hole and corner. And what’s the cause of this humiliation? (Verse from Quran) you want to get guidance??? Want to get peace??? Embrace this book of ALLAH! Understand monotheism (tauheed)!!! Do not join partners with ALLAH!! Save yourself from shrik. You will be granted guidance and relief on the Day of Judgment too.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/30/2013 3:01:53 PM
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    Alan Craig exposes Mega-Mosque con trick

     

    http://www.thechristianchoice.org/?page=news&id=264

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9SOiuOIJ9U#t=19

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/30/2013 2:53:24 PM
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    Statements of the Scholars of the Sunnah concerning the Jamaa’ah at-Tableegh
    http://www.munawwar.com/resources/Jamia+Tableegh.htm

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/30/2013 2:51:46 PM
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    Fazail-e-Amaal Ki Haqeeqat – Lecture by Sheikh Touseef Ur Rahman

     

    http://www.syedtauseef.com/upload/book/Fazail-e-Amaal%20ki%20Haqeeqat_English.pdf

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/30/2013 2:48:46 PM
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     Dawat e Islami aur Tableeghi Jamaat kamyaab kyun ?? by Mufti Muneed ur Rehman

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuHLGHyjgWg

    dear sufisoul

     first of all i must say i love all muslims irrespective of difference for the sake of Allah swt-

     i hate to criticize anyone in public unless i feel it is important

     i have spent time with tablighi jamaat and during 1 day or 3 days or 10 days or 40 days... x days they do not talk about social/state/political evils prevailing in the society-

    i am not a fan of mufi muneeb-ur-rahman, but here he sums it all up in 3 minutes, please listen to it-

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/29/2013 10:38:50 PM
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     Madhad & School of Thought

    http://www.islamicislamic.com/school_of_thought.htm#TABLIGHIThey do not interfere in issues of forbidding the evil, believing they are at the stage of establishing an appropriate climate for Islamic living, and that if they were to involve themselves in such issues, then this would place obstacles in their way and turn the people away from their da'wah.

    - They believe that if they correct their individuals (members) one-by-one then the evil will be automatically eradicated from amongst the masses.

    - That going out and propagating their da’wah to the people, helps in nurturing the da’ee and cultivating his actions, such that he feels he is an example for others to follow and that he adheres to that which he is calling the people to.

    - They believe that blind following a madhhab is obligatory, and they do not permit ijtihaad, believing that the conditions of a mujtahid (one who is qualified to make ijtihaad) are not present amongst the scholars of this time.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/29/2013 10:28:11 PM
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     Fazail e Amaal Tablighi Jamaat Q A by Brother Imran

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CziXdz0mhw8

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/29/2013 9:37:05 PM
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    In the Name of God

     

    http://forcenewsmagazine.blogspot.com/2009_04_01_archive.html

    Talghis not propagate Jihad-e-Asghar (the struggle waged with sword), only Jihad-e-Akbar (the greater Jihad that one wages with oneself to lead a more upright and pious life), but their intense indoctrination which often starts at a very young age robs the person of individual thinking and the capacity for logical reasoning. By repeatedly emphasising on the superiority of Islam as opposed to other religions and by strict gender segregation, the Tabligh intensifies the intolerance level of the individuals. Gilles Kepel in his book The War for Muslim Minds: Islam and the West, writes,“The intense indoctrination preached by the sheikhists reduces their flock’s capacity for personal reasoning, which makes these followers easy prey for a clever jihadists’ preacher.” Moreover, since committed Jamaatis travel with the groups for four months at a stretch, they clearly cannot hold regular jobs, which to some extent speak of their and their family’s economic security thereby adding to their overall vulnerability.


    However, the biggest cause of concern is its slightly nebulous organisational structure which makes it vulnerable to exploitation by vested interests. According to Salim Khan, Tabligh has no mechanism for background checks of its members. Since it is entirely a voluntary project, members come and go as they wish. Besides, during chillas, anybody can come and attend the bayaan at the mosque. In fact, the annual Tablighi Jamaat congregation at Raiwind in Pakistan has become some kind of a fishing pond for terrorist groups like Jaish and Lashkar. At the 2006 congregation which was attended by nearly a million people, members of Jaish and Lashkar not only mingled with the Jamaatis freely but also addressed quite a few sessions. It is not certain how many members they managed to rope in for terrorist activities, but it is not difficult to imagine how people brought up on a staple of Islamic superiority would react when told about the sufferings of fellow Muslims at the hand of the enemies of Islam. This is particularly worrisome for India as in any case the normal rhetoric in Pakistan is anti-India; when combined with religious zeal and images of Muslim sufferings in Gujarat, Kashmir and other places it can be a lethal cocktail.

    Holding Out


    Yet, it would be a bit of an over-reaction to immediately jump up and impose restrictions on Tablighi Jamaat or proscribe it. Despite individual cases, there has not been a single instance so far of the involvement of Tabligh as an organisation in any terrorist activity. But given its nebulous structure and the complete absence of accountability it is important that the veil of secrecy be lifted. Even though it is difficult to do a background check on all its travelling members, but some form of internal screening should be put into place. Since Tablighi members travel in groups, their travel arrangements, including passports and Visas are issued as a group, where individual checks are often neglected. This makes Tabligh a good cover for terrorists and anti-social elements. There is also a need for better accountability in the areas of funding as well. At the moment, Jamaats keep no record of any money received or spent. They claim that they function purely on the donations of their members, but there is no mechanism to check if they receive donations from patrons abroad as well and how that money is spent. By abjuring social responsibilities and focussing solely of religious propagation, Tabligh creates intellectually stunted, selfish people who consider themselves outsiders in a society. A large group, running into millions, believing itself to be an outsider is certainly not good news for any society.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/29/2013 9:18:32 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Rehman Malik Irresponsible Statement On Islamic Missionary Group


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26UZ8S9KZtI

     

    Uploaded on Jul 31, 2011

     

    Interior Minister Of Pakistan Rehman Malik has said that Tablighi missionary centre in Raiwaind is the breeding ground of extremism and terrorism in Pakistan as the centre has a major role in brainwashing the extremists.
    <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
    <!--[endif]-->
    Senator Rehman Malik told the audience at the security think-tank International Institute of Strategic Studies (IISS) while speaking on the topic of "Countering Extremism in South Asia".

     

    Rehman Malik said that all the terrorists arrested in Pakistan had three elements in common: they have visited the missionary Tablighi centre in Lahore's Raiwind; their close family members have taken part in Afghan war of the Soviet era and they have been to one of the more than 25,000 madrassahs which have mushroomed in Pakistan following the USA and Pakistan's joint war against the Communist USSR.

     

    pakibizzle2813308 -  2 years ago

     

    @GreaterPakistan Have you ever been to a Tablighi Jamaat lecture? I have many times. They do have militant elements, every single Tablighi Jamaat lecture I've been to they potray Taliban and Al Qaeda as heroes of Islam. They talk bullshit nonsense like ''There was a bombing by America and it killed many shaheed, after that the place that was bombed started smelling like roses and flowers'' and everybody sitting there going MASHALLAH. what a load of bullshit.

     

    pakibizzle2813308 -  2 years ago

     

    @GreaterPakistan Oh yeah and one time the Tablighi Jamaat lecture I went to during the time of the Swat war in 2009 they were talking about how members of their group were in Swat with the ''mujahideen'' (Taliban) and the army was bombing the city but only their buildings were saved because they were working for Allah's cause. They portray the army as savage monsters and the Taliban as heaven sent angels.

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/29/2013 9:03:51 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Tablighi Jamaat: An Indirect Line to Terrorism

    http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/tablighi_jamaat_indirect_line_terrorism

     

    Examples of people making the jump from TJ to radical Islam are the two leading members of the cell responsible for the July 7, 2005, London bombings -- Mohammed Siddique Khan and Shahzad Tanweer. Both had life-changing experiences through their exposure to TJ, though by 2001 the men had left the Tablighi mosque they had been attending in the British city of Beeston, because they found it to be too apolitical. They apparently were frustrated by the mosque's elders, who forbid the discussion of politics in the mosque.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/29/2013 8:36:12 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Tablighi Trail

     

    http://www.timescrest.com/society/tablighi-trail-5378

     

    For Muslims in general, though, the Jamaat is where they turn to for spiritual and other kinds of healing. "There is a common belief that if there is a boy in the family who has taken to drugs and alcohol and gone astray, 'usko jamaat bhej do (send him to the Jamaat)'. Community service along with a good dose of preaching is supposed to work miracles, people say, though I do not believe in such things, " Farooqui says, adding that he remembers the time a Jamaat group had come to his house with the son of a wealthy Dubai emir as one of its members. The boy had been staying in the Nizamuddin mosque for a month and working for Jamaat.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/29/2013 8:15:42 PM
  • The following is from Mr Lodhia's post:

    "Their misinterpretation of some Qur’aanic verses in a manner that was not intended by Allaah. For example they interpret the verses on jihad as referring to “going out for da’wah”. The verses which mentioned the word khurooj (going out) etc. are interpreted by them as meaning going out for da’wah."

    The jihad or struggle in the way of Allah for a Tablighi is going out for dawah. When Moulana Ilyas said that he was preparing "soldiers for Jehad" he meant preparing a large body of Tablighis.


    Moulana Zakariyah: The son-in-law of Moulana Ilyas and the author of Fazaail-e-Aamaal was a Sufi and was given the Khilafah of all the four Sufi Tareeqahs by Moulana Khalil Ahmad Saharanpuri.

    Elders of the Deobandi school of thought, from among who is Moulana Zakariyah; the author of Fazaail-e-Aamaal, have testified to the fact that their Manhaj (way) is that of the Sufis and take pride in it. Mufti Abdur-Rahim Lajpuri quoted in his book of Fatawa, the words of Qaree Mohammed Tayyib (the rector of the Darul-Uloom, Deoband) as, “Religiously, the Ulema of Deoband are Muslims, as a sect they belong to the Ahl us-Sunnah wal- Jamaah, by Madhhab they are Hanafee, in conduct they are Sufis, scholastically they are Maturidi and in Sulook they are Chisti - rather they combine all Sufi orders... And in nisbat they are Deobandi.”  “In essentials and beliefs, they (the Deobandis) follow Imam Abul Hasan Ash’aree and Imam Abu Mansoor Maturidi; and in sub-principles Imam Abu Haneefah. They are initiates of the Chistiyyah, Naqshbandiya, Qadriyah and Soharwardiyah Sufi orders.”

    By Observer - 11/29/2013 7:37:44 PM
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    The World Almanac of Islamism – Tablighi Jama’at

     

    http://almanac.afpc.org/tablighi-jamaat

     

    The movement teaches jihad primarily as personal purification rather than as holy warfare.18 This may be because, following Deobandi doctrine, TJ takes the utilitarian approach that martial jihad is not wise when the umma is weak, rather than because it disavows violent jihad altogether.19 In any event, because TJ eschews jihad of the sword currently, it has met with the disapproval of Saudi clerics, with TJ missionaries banned from preaching in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and a number of online Wahhabi fatwas listing TJ as a “deviant” group, along with Shi`ites.20 However, practical connections between TJ practitioners and acts of terror (such as the attacks in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi), as well as anecdotal evidence that Ilyas himself believed he was “preparing soldiers” for jihad,21 paint a more complex—and threatening—picture of the organization.

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/29/2013 1:47:54 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    The Blessed Effort of Jama’ah al-Tabligh & the Wrong Practices

     

    http://daruliftaa.com/blessed-effort-of-jamaah-al-tabligh

     

    One of my respected Shaykhs, Mufti Taqi Usmani (may Allah preserve him), in a recent lecture, very passionately and sincerely highlighted the wrong practices adopted by some folks who participate in the organized effort of deen called, ‘Jama’ah Tabligh.’ He explained that there are many different efforts of serving the deen of Allah – such as teaching (ta’lim), conveying the message (da’wah & tabligh), reforming souls (tazkiya), charity work, etc – and the objective of all such efforts is to please Allah Most High. They are all different forms of serving the deen of Allah. However, the problem arises when some people get involved in a particular type of effort, and then think that what they are involved in is the only ‘real’ effort; and all other efforts are either not the efforts of deen or even if they are, they don’t have much significance. This leads to deviation!

     

    He particularly singled out those who become ‘extreme’ in the effort of Jama’ah Tabligh. Some of them – due to lack of knowledge – become so overzealous that they start disregarding all other efforts of deen such as teaching ilm, charity work, etc… If teachers and students of a Madrasa do not come out in their organized Tabligh effort, they think that they are not really doing the work of deen! He then cited an example where a Tablighi brother told his old mother and wife that, “I do not have time to earn and provide for you, you earn and feed the family; I need to go out for Tabligh!” This, he explained, is not what Allah wants from us. In Islam, our family also has a right over us, and one should do what is required at the given time. This is not what the ‘elders’ of Tabligh have taught, he explained.

     

    He said that such people become so fanatical that if any scholar was to give them sincere advice (nasiha) out of love and genuine concern, they become extremely defensive and say things like, “You are anti-Tabligh” and “How dare you point out our mistake” and “The mistakes of one or two should not be taken to mean the whole effort is flawed” and “The Tablighis do great work” etc… but when did anyone say the whole work is flawed, and when did anyone deny the value of the effort?! It seems they just do not want to hear anyone correcting their mistakes!

     

    Finally, he said, the effort of Jama’ah Tabligh is very beneficial, which has spread the message of Islam to far and distant lands. We encourage people, especially the general masses, to participate in this effort. However, the mistakes must be pointed out. If such extremism is not avoided, it may lead this whole effort into becoming some kind of a cult! Avoid such extremism, and save others from it! [End of Shaykh al-Islam Mufti Taqi Usmani’s statement in my own words]

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/29/2013 11:59:01 AM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Spreading the holy word – and fuelling Islamic extremism

     

    http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/09/08/spreading-the-holy-word%E2%80%94and-fuelling-islamic-extremism/

     

    In Pakistan, their uncontested rise is rapidly changing the religious landscape to one ossified by a puritan ideology, fixated on the form of Islam practised in the seventh century. At the forefront is the Tablighi Jamaat, a network of proselytizers and religious activists who travel throughout the country—and the world—teaching the Salafi branch of Islam, the reductionist version of the religion practised by virtually all jihadist groups in the world. The Tablighis themselves claim an ideological pedigree from a slightly less radical form of fundamentalist orthodoxy. But since Sept. 11, 2001, their ideology has shifted closer to the Salafis, to a point where they are generally seen as being within the Salafi fold. And for both, Islam’s crisis is the consequence of a weakness of faith, poisoned by secular democracy. The cure is a return to the original form of the religion, cleansed of innovations that have misguided the faithful. “The greatest enemies of Islam,” says Ilyas Khan, a preacher at the Tablighi preaching centre in Peshawar, the capital of Pakistan’s war-ravaged northwest, “are Muslims themselves.”

     

    The Tablighis argue that they are apolitical, pietist Muslims who condemn the violent actions of their jihadist counterparts. Some observers remain skeptical. The FBI claims it has found that al-Qaeda has used the Tablighi Jamaat as a recruiting tool; Richard Reid, the U.S. citizen who in 2003 attempted to blow up a flight by detonating explosives hidden in his shoe, was a member but apparently left because the movement was not violent enough for his tastes. The bombings of nightclubs in Bali in 2002 were reportedly planned in southern Thailand, where the Tablighis run a network of mosques.

     

    The uncertainty over what role the Tablighi movement plays in Islamic radicalization has become a contentious issue in recent years. The fact that the group rejects bloodshed makes them, in some ways, untouchable. But their promotion of the same ideology that jihadists follow, with its rigid rejection of any other form of Islamic practice, marks them out as extremists in their own right—and ones whose message could easily be twisted into violence.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/29/2013 11:39:56 AM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Tableeghi Jamaat: Reason for the Rise of Religious Intolerance

     

    http://www.newageislam.com/radical-islamism-and-jihad/syed-kamran-hashmi/tableeghi-jamaat--reason-for-the-rise-of-religious-intolerance/d/34638

    They are convinced that they are on the road that follows the Sunnah (ways) of the prophet (PBUH) and are acting upon the will of God even though most Muslims throughout the world and throughout history refuse to accept this as the rightful way to preach.

    If you join them in these local congregations, you are encouraged, often times to an embarrassing extent, to plan a three-day course, which is followed by a weeklong trip and then that is then extended to a 40-day tour to the remote areas of Pakistan to spread the message. After one cycle, you will be requested to repeat these self-financed excursions after every few months or at least once a year to get your own faith revitalised. These expeditions get so addictive that my cousin went on a six-month long visit. On his way out, he reassured his ailing father, who had recently been diagnosed with lung cancer, in these words, “I am leaving my mobile phone behind but I will be in touch with you and will call you as soon as I get an opportunity.”

    Even then, he did not forget to advise him, “Our group will pray for your health every day; just ascertain that, meanwhile, you will compensate for all of your missed prayers, fast for your lost months of Ramzan and pay off your zakat in full.” It turned out that his father passed away within the next 30 days and my cousin was never able to attend his own father’s funeral.

    With the passage of time, as you make these volunteer trips, you will adopt a new lifestyle, the one that has been recommended mostly by one sect as the righteous way of living. Your attire will be more ‘compliant’ and more representative of that particular faction, your accent will adapt to new rules, your vocabulary will evolve and, above all, your attitude towards your family will change. Surrounded by a number of new friends, either you will avoid your old associates or they, after failing to find their old pal in you, will start circumventing you. Fashion becomes a curse word and your admiration for the arts and literature will evaporate as part of history. With these changes, you will emerge as a ‘reformed’ Muslim who is ready for his three-day trip every weekend.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/29/2013 11:31:41 AM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Jamaa’at al-Tableegh – Pros and Cons

     

    http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/8674

     

    areszh

     

    What is the ruling on the 40 days and 4 months to the different part of world to call muslim brothers towards duties of islam.

     Praise be to Allaah.  

     “Jamaa’at al-Tableegh” is one of the groups that are working for Islam. Their efforts in calling people to Allaah (da’wah) cannot be denied. But like many other groups they make some mistakes, and some points should be noted concerning them. These points may be summed up as follows, noting that these mistakes may vary within this group, depending on the environment and society in which they find themselves. In societies in which knowledge and scholars are prevalent and the madhhab of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah is widespread, the mistakes are much less; in other societies these mistakes may be greater. Some of their mistakes are: 

     

    1 – Not adopting the ‘aqeedah of Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l-Jamaa'ah. This is clearly seen from the variations in the ‘aqeedah of some of their members and even of some of their leaders. 

     

    2 – Their not paying attention to shar’i knowledge. 

     

    3 – Their misinterpretation of some Qur’aanic verses in a manner that was not intended by Allaah. For example they interpret the verses on jihad as referring to “going out for da’wah”. The verses which mentioned the word khurooj (going out) etc. are interpreted by them as meaning going out for da’wah. 

     

    4 – They make their system of going out for da’wah an act of worship. So they started to misquote the Qur’aan to support their system which specifies certain numbers of days and months. This system, which they think is based on evidence from Qur’aan, is widespread among them in all countries and environments.  

    5 – They do some things that go against sharee’ah, such as appointing one of them to make du’aa’ for them whilst the group goes out for da’wah, and they think that their success or failure depends on whether or not this man was sincere and his du’aa’ accepted.  

     

    6 – Da’eef (weak) and mawdoo’ (fabricated) ahaadeeth are widespread among them, and this is not befitting for those who aim to call people to Allaah.  

     

    7 – They do not speak of munkaraat (evil things), thinking that enjoining what is good is sufficient. Hence we find that they do not speak about evils that are widespread among the people, even though the slogan of this ummah – which they continually repeat – is: 

     

    Let there arise out of you a group of people inviting to all that is good (Islam), enjoining Al-Ma‘roof (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam orders one to do) and forbidding Al-Munkar (polytheism and disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden). And it is they who are the successful

     

    [Aal ‘Imraan 3:104 – interpretation of the meaning] 

     

    The successful are those who enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil, not just those who do only one of the two. 

     

    8 – Some of them fall into self-admiration and arrogance, which leads them to look down on others, and even to look down on the scholars and describe them as inactive and sleeping, or to show off. So you find them talking about how they went out and travelled, and they saw such and such, which leads to unfavourable results, as we have mentioned. 

     

    9 – They regard going out for da’wah as better than many acts of worship such as jihad and seeking knowledge, even though those things are obligatory duties, or may be obligatory for some people but not others. 

     

    10 – Some of them audaciously issue fatwas, and discuss tafseer and hadeeth. That is because they allow each one of them to address the people and explain to them. This leads to them speak audaciously on matters of sharee’ah. So the inevitably speak of the meaning of a ruling, hadeeth or verse when they have not read anything about it, or listened to any of the scholars. And some of them are new Muslims or have only recently come back to Islam. 

     

    11- Some of them are negligent with regard to the rights of their children and wives. We have discussed the seriousness of this matter in the answer to question no. 3043. 

     

    Hence the scholars do not allow people to go out with them, except for those who want to help them and correct the mistakes that they have fallen into. 

     

    We should not keep the people away from them altogether, rather we must try to correct their mistakes and advise them so that their efforts will continue and they will be correct according to the Qur’aan and Sunnah.  

     

    There follow the fatwas of some of the scholars concerning Jamaa’at al-Tableegh: 

     

    1 – Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz said: 

     

    Jamaa’at al-Tableegh do not have proper understanding of the issues of ‘aqeedah, so it is not permissible to go out with them, except for one who has knowledge and understanding of the correct ‘aqeedah of Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l-Jamaa'ah, so that he can guide them and advise them, and cooperate with them in doing good, because they are very active, but they need more knowledge and someone who can guide them of those who have knowledge of Tawheed and the Sunnah. May Allaah bless us all with proper understanding of Islam and make us steadfast in adhering to it. 

     

    Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 8/331                      

     

    2 – Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan said: 

     

    Going out for the sake of Allaah does not refer to the kind of going out that they mean nowadays. Going out for the sake of Allaah means going out to fight. What they call going out nowadays is a bid’ah (innovation) that was not narrated from the salaf. 

     

    Going out to call people to Allaah cannot be limited to a certain number of days, rather one should call people to Allaah according to one's abilities, without limiting that to a group or to forty days or more or less than that

     

    Similarly the daa’iyah must have knowledge. It is not permissible for a person to call people to Allaah when he is ignorant. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

     

    “Say (O Muhammad): This is my way; I invite unto Allaah (i.e. to the Oneness of Allaah — Islamic Monotheism) with sure knowledge”

     

    [Yoosuf 12:108] 

     

    i.e., with knowledge, because the caller must know that to which he calls people, what is obligatory, mustahabb, haraam and makrooh. He has to know what shirk, sin, kufr, immorality and disobedience are; he has to know the degrees of denouncing evil and how to do it

    The kind of going out that distracts people from seeking knowledge is wrong, because seeking knowledge is an obligation, and it can only be achieved by learning, not by inspiration. This is one of the misguided Sufi myths, because action without knowledge is misguidance, and hoping to acquire knowledge without learning is an illusion. 

    From Thalaath Mihaadaraat fi’l-‘Ilm wa’l-Da’wah

    And Allaah knows best.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/29/2013 9:30:33 AM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Jamaa’at al-Tableegh – Pros and Cons

     

    http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/8674

     

    areszh

     

    What is the ruling on the 40 days and 4 months to the different part of world to call muslim brothers towards duties of islam.

     

    Praise be to Allaah.  

     

    “Jamaa’at al-Tableegh” is one of the groups that are working for Islam. Their efforts in calling people to Allaah (da’wah) cannot be denied. But like many other groups they make some mistakes, and some points should be noted concerning them. These points may be summed up as follows, noting that these mistakes may vary within this group, depending on the environment and society in which they find themselves. In societies in which knowledge and scholars are prevalent and the madhhab of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah is widespread, the mistakes are much less; in other societies these mistakes may be greater. Some of their mistakes are: 

     

    1 – Not adopting the ‘aqeedah of Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l-Jamaa'ah. This is clearly seen from the variations in the ‘aqeedah of some of their members and even of some of their leaders. 

     

    2 – Their not paying attention to shar’i knowledge. 

     

    3 – Their misinterpretation of some Qur’aanic verses in a manner that was not intended by Allaah. For example they interpret the verses on jihad as referring to “going out for da’wah”. The verses which mentioned the word khurooj (going out) etc. are interpreted by them as meaning going out for da’wah. 

     

    4 – They make their system of going out for da’wah an act of worship. So they started to misquote the Qur’aan to support their system which specifies certain numbers of days and months. This system, which they think is based on evidence from Qur’aan, is widespread among them in all countries and environments.  

    5 – They do some things that go against sharee’ah, such as appointing one of them to make du’aa’ for them whilst the group goes out for da’wah, and they think that their success or failure depends on whether or not this man was sincere and his du’aa’ accepted.  

     

    6 – Da’eef (weak) and mawdoo’ (fabricated) ahaadeeth are widespread among them, and this is not befitting for those who aim to call people to Allaah.  

     

    7 – They do not speak of munkaraat (evil things), thinking that enjoining what is good is sufficient. Hence we find that they do not speak about evils that are widespread among the people, even though the slogan of this ummah – which they continually repeat – is: 

     

    Let there arise out of you a group of people inviting to all that is good (Islam), enjoining Al-Ma‘roof (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam orders one to do) and forbidding Al-Munkar (polytheism and disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden). And it is they who are the successful

     

    [Aal ‘Imraan 3:104 – interpretation of the meaning] 

     

    The successful are those who enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil, not just those who do only one of the two. 

     

    8 – Some of them fall into self-admiration and arrogance, which leads them to look down on others, and even to look down on the scholars and describe them as inactive and sleeping, or to show off. So you find them talking about how they went out and travelled, and they saw such and such, which leads to unfavourable results, as we have mentioned. 

     

    9 – They regard going out for da’wah as better than many acts of worship such as jihad and seeking knowledge, even though those things are obligatory duties, or may be obligatory for some people but not others. 

     

    10 – Some of them audaciously issue fatwas, and discuss tafseer and hadeeth. That is because they allow each one of them to address the people and explain to them. This leads to them speak audaciously on matters of sharee’ah. So the inevitably speak of the meaning of a ruling, hadeeth or verse when they have not read anything about it, or listened to any of the scholars. And some of them are new Muslims or have only recently come back to Islam. 

     

    11- Some of them are negligent with regard to the rights of their children and wives. We have discussed the seriousness of this matter in the answer to question no. 3043. 

     

    Hence the scholars do not allow people to go out with them, except for those who want to help them and correct the mistakes that they have fallen into. 

     

    We should not keep the people away from them altogether, rather we must try to correct their mistakes and advise them so that their efforts will continue and they will be correct according to the Qur’aan and Sunnah.  

     

    There follow the fatwas of some of the scholars concerning Jamaa’at al-Tableegh: 

     

    1 – Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz said: 

     

    Jamaa’at al-Tableegh do not have proper understanding of the issues of ‘aqeedah, so it is not permissible to go out with them, except for one who has knowledge and understanding of the correct ‘aqeedah of Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l-Jamaa'ah, so that he can guide them and advise them, and cooperate with them in doing good, because they are very active, but they need more knowledge and someone who can guide them of those who have knowledge of Tawheed and the Sunnah. May Allaah bless us all with proper understanding of Islam and make us steadfast in adhering to it. 

     

    Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 8/331                      

     

    2 – Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan said: 

     

    Going out for the sake of Allaah does not refer to the kind of going out that they mean nowadays. Going out for the sake of Allaah means going out to fight. What they call going out nowadays is a bid’ah (innovation) that was not narrated from the salaf. 

     

    Going out to call people to Allaah cannot be limited to a certain number of days, rather one should call people to Allaah according to one's abilities, without limiting that to a group or to forty days or more or less than that

     

    Similarly the daa’iyah must have knowledge. It is not permissible for a person to call people to Allaah when he is ignorant. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

     

    “Say (O Muhammad): This is my way; I invite unto Allaah (i.e. to the Oneness of Allaah — Islamic Monotheism) with sure knowledge”

     

    [Yoosuf 12:108] 

     

    i.e., with knowledge, because the caller must know that to which he calls people, what is obligatory, mustahabb, haraam and makrooh. He has to know what shirk, sin, kufr, immorality and disobedience are; he has to know the degrees of denouncing evil and how to do it

     

    The kind of going out that distracts people from seeking knowledge is wrong, because seeking knowledge is an obligation, and it can only be achieved by learning, not by inspiration. This is one of the misguided Sufi myths, because action without knowledge is misguidance, and hoping to acquire knowledge without learning is an illusion. 

     

    From Thalaath Mihaadaraat fi’l-‘Ilm wa’l-Da’wah

     

    And Allaah knows best.

     

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/29/2013 9:29:57 AM
  • Why Salafis hate Tabligh

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091021233812AASSPXI

    Best Answer - Voter's Choice

    Ismail Eliat answered 4 years ago

    Salafis in general don't hate but I think there is so much mis-understanding one another. For eg: Salafis say 3, days 40 days is a Bid'aa. Where as scholars of Tabligh says this is just a system and a Tarteeb as our system of Madrassa etc. Then if all our systems of Da'wa and Taleem (teaching and learning) are Bid'aa, their system of Da'wa through channels, CDs , debates, posters and video clipping, exposing etc then teaching Ilm through syllabus and class divisions, years and months, certificates and titles, all these things did not exist at time of Rasaulullah (s.a.w) in Da'wa and Taleem. So let those who call a brother Muslim as Bida'ati first look into what they are doing. Also Tabligh is not a group but it is a duty of this Ummah for which reason we are a selected nation.

    Also Salafis are misunderstood by others. They do take the opinion of Mazhab. In truth, Salafi are those who follow Salaf Salihoon and it is obligatory upon all Muslim to follow the Salaf. It's not a group but a methodology. If you take to the view of great scholars like Shaikh Ibn Baaz, Uthaimeen, Jibreen (May Allah have mercy on them) they never label themselves as Salafis, rather they explain to Ummah what were Salaf Salih were upon. They all loved the efforts of Tabligh and explained it in many of their talks and gave advices to what they saw as shortcomings. As for those who have allergenic towards using weak narrations for virtues of deeds, they also have problem with majority of Islamic books as Riyadul Saliheen of Imama Nawawi (r.a), Adabul Mufarrad of Imam Bukhari (r.a), Tarheeb wa Targeeb, Muta Malik, Tirmidhi and so on and on. Also some people are against any caller of Islam and any groups working for Islam. The basic role to follow is that we should correct one another in good manner and try to serve Islam in the best ways we can do in these times of Fitna and trials. Islam is perfect, those who strive for it may have their own weakness and may not be perfect. Allah (s.w.t) accepts those who sincerely helps His Deen. May Allah (s.w.t) unite this Ummah on Deen.

    Anita answered 4 years ago

    I love how people use the word Salafi as if it's a bad thing. Do you know who Salafis are?

    Let me explain to to you since I actually read about these terms rather than listen to hearsay:

    What does it mean to be a Salafi? It means following the Salaf, and hwo was that? Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). He himself said this to his daughter Fatima "Indeed, I am for you a blessed Salaf." (Bukhari no. 2652).

    The term Salafi emerged from the death of the Prophet (pbuh) to 4 hundred years after his death. In this time period the people who strictly followed the Qu'ran and and the way of the Prophet (pbuh) called themselves Salafis.

    Using the word Salafi in a derogatory sense happened 200 years ago when the British met a man name Muhammad bin Abdul Wahab. They found him to be a devout Muslim who again strictly followed Islam as the Salfis did and they didn't like that. So to make him seem like less of a Muslim and to put a divide amongst the Muslims, the British claimed that Wahab practiced a different religion all together and deemed anyone that followed true Islam to be a "Wahabi" Ever since then people have used "Salafi/Wahabi" in a derogatory sense when if you think about it, any Muslim that follows true Islam is a Salafi.

    So technically every Muslim should be a Salafi since this was the earliest word used to describe a devout Muslim.

    Tawbah answered 4 years ago

    Unfortunately they use fabricated hadith which in essence is lying against the prophet(saw). However Salafis are not without blame either considering they do not acknowledge Tawheed Al Hakimiyah (Allah's right to have his Shariah law established on the earth) and they constantly make excuses for the ruling elite in the hijaz to implement man made laws which challenge Allah's hukoom (Judgement)

    Aspirant Sikh soldier answered 4 years ago

    This infighting amongst sects in a religion is very common because each sect thinks that they are practising that particular religion in most proper way and that the other sects are strayed !
    This not only happens in Islam unfortunately also in Christianity , Hinduism , etc

    Tendou Souji answered 4 years ago

    Tabligh do not practice fabricated Hadith..


    yes they refer to weak Hadith but it is not used as a hujjah..instead Tabligh use weak Hadith as a MOTIVATION to increase their a'mal(fadhail a'mal)..i wonder the one saying Tabligh use fabricated Hadith have truly been in Tabligh...
    besides, Tabligh are calling people towards Allah..in which we are trained to really take care of our iman n solah..what's wrong with that??

    Dony tell me we're going to be a secular Muslim..
    No Iman without hardships n we all knew that when we die we only bring iman n a'mal..
    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/29/2013 9:18:25 AM
  • Thank you Mr Lodhia and my apologies to you for being severe on you for posting from some very doubtful sources earlier.

    Also I would request you and others to go through the portions that you have highlighted. The highlighted portions are invariably speculative.

    The Tablighi Jamat is simply too good to be true for most people. Its massive following is daunting. There must be a hidden agenda to such a disciplined body of over 10 million spread over 200 countries. How can such a massive Jamat not have a political agenda? It must therefore have a hidden agenda and must be engaged in 'stealth jehad'!

    An organization cannot go about hiding its real agenda for 84 years. Which organization has a 100 year agenda covered under the wraps which  remains hidden even while going through the turbulent times that we are going through?

    I talked about having my own reasons to keep away from the Jamat and gave those reasons which you missed.

    The Jamatis  show individual variations in their approach and the criticism applies to individual Jamatis and not to the Jamat. Some oversell the concept and pretend that "it is the call of God that must be obeyed".  Only a Prophet can say it is the call of God and not a Jamati. An individual may therefore answer the call of God and leave his pregnant wife to "the care of God" which is a reason you mention for disliking the Jamat. Fair enough, but still this takes away nothing from the entirely peaceful nature of the Jamat.

    Because of such wide variations in approach a young person may go through the hype curve.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle
    They may take you to the peak of unrealistic expectations (after all you are doing the work of prophets), the practical reality may take you to the trough of disillusionment and if you have a strong and stable temperament to withstand the disillusionment, you will then rise above the slope of enlightenment and reach a plateau of peace.

    The trough of disillusionment can however shatter a person and my guess is this is what may have happened to Rational.

    Again, not every one is taken through this roller coaster ride but those who experience it, may either come out stronger for the experience or go under.

    Again, this takes away nothing from the entirely peaceful nature of the Jamat.

     Statistically, it is proved that on the few days when  hospital services become unavailable, the death rate goes down! People in real emergency die but deaths due to wrong treatment are prevented. So, even doctors kill but that cannot be held against the hospitals and doctors in general because on the whole they contribute to reduced mortality.

    The reason I mentioned in my earlier post was that I consider the Jamat to be like a village primary school  and therefore too limiting. You cannot say that I should not support a village primary school just because I did not attend one nor my children.

    Mr Lodhia, there can be enormous amount of fair criticism but none of it takes away from its entirely peaceful nature and the good work it is doing.

    By Observer - 11/29/2013 3:50:38 AM
  • Respected Naseer Saheb,
    Thank you kindly for your balanced comment. Though, it is late now and I will not be able to
    reply, nevertheless, I am glad that you went through all the links which I have posted on New Age Islam forum.

    However, it will be splendid if we get more comments trickle in so that both of us can try to figure out how best to conclude this subject matter.

    Of course, I am sure you will respect the difference of opinions between all the readers. I must also inform you that Sultan Shahin Saheb was much appreciative of my efforts to post important links. Reading and reflecting upon all the viewpoints is very healthy as you well know. In fact, this is the only way we can analyze as to what went wrong in the Islamic society at large?

    Again, I thank you for your response. By the way, let us continue the discourse in a much

    more respectable manner. There is absolutely no need to use foul language. If I did, then please accept my sincere apologies.
    Sincerely yours, rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org
    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/29/2013 1:18:21 AM
  • Thank you Mr Lodhia for posting the links. I would strongly advise all readers to go through them to get a comprehensive and balanced view of the Tablighi Jamaat. Truly it is said that your enemy knows you better than your friend. More than his admirers, only an enemy like  Godse could keenly feel what Gandhi truly represented . That he did not like what Gandhi represented is another matter. One cannot however fault Godse for his understanding of Gandhi and the threat that Gandhi  posed to Godse's vision of India. You must read the statement that Godse made during his trial on why he killed Gandhi.
    Shahin Sb keeps referring to the origins of the Jamat. This part is also covered in Mr Lodhia's postings. I find it unexceptionable.
    In one of the posts Ghamdi and Zakir Naik are described as Wahabi. In different posts you have links to videos in which both Ghamidi and Zakir Naik criticize the Tablighi Jamaat. So you have a much hated and derided Wahabi Tele avengelist criticsing the Jamaat!
    The Jamatis follow exclusively the book Fazail Aamal or 'The Benefits of Good Deeds'. A fair comment on the book is that besides verses from the Quran, strong and weak hadiths, it also contains Hadiths that are categorized as suitable (low on authenticity but considered OK because these promote desirable behavior) and stories of Sufis which some may call fables. These are 'No, No' for any Wahabi or Salafi and is a distinctly sufi trait.
    The practice of going out doing Tableegh which consists of both teaching and learning again corresponds with the Sufi practice of leaving home in search of God. The number of days for which they go out (3, 10, 40 or 120 days) also correspond with  Sufi practices. This is again heavily criticized by various 'scholars' and Mr Lodhia provides us the links. 
    The emphasis on Dhikr which the post describes as going round and round anti clockwise reciting the name of God is also associated with the Sufis which has also been criticsied.
    Also a fair comment is the non-involvement of the Jamaatis in local issues which is again the Sufi way of distancing himself from worldly attachments.
    The Jamaat has been criticized for not making any statement on terrorism which is true. That does not mean that the Jamat is supportive of terrorism. This behavior is in accordance with the apolitical nature of the Jamaat. The Jamaat took no position on anything - be it the Shah Bano case, Babri Masjid, Gujerat and Mumbai riots, various blasphemy related riots etc etc.
    There are very few real Sufis in this world today. Most people  who call themselves Sufis are only Sufi zadas or the progeny of Sufis who make a living from the shrines. 
    Tablighi Jamat is a true Sufi grass root level movement and therefore does not find favour with a Wahabi and there are numerous non-Barelvi ulema who have criticized it. Since it also has Deobandi roots in the sense that although it believes in the Barelvi concept of Waseela (which a Wahabi does not), it does not subscribe to the Barelvi concept of the prophet as much more than a normal mortal. (Did not die, was born before Adam, reason for creation of the earth, created from Light, light of God etc etc)
    Its Sufi antecedents are clearly seen in focusing on the spiritual development of the individual, non involvement in worldly affairs, being apolitical, eschewing the doctrine of violent Jehad, emphasis in dhikr, emphasis on leaving the home to find God through working with people.
    Another fair criticism posted by Mr Lodhia of what a Malaysian has written is that Tabligh is a misnomer since the Jamat does not proselytize among non-Muslims but works exclusively with Muslims. Any proselytization among non-Muslims that takes place is when a a non-Muslim comes on his own to their gatherings.  
    There are innuendos about  a terrorist having prayed at a Tablighi mosque etc. A mosque is a place where anybody could walk in. The purpose of Tabligh is to reform people and that does not exclude criminals. So a criminal praying at their mosque or attending their gathering does not prove anything. One must be sensible enough to distinguish between what an individual does and what the organization does and none of these stories have affected the Jamat in any way anywhere in the world.
    The moderates on this site have been saying that Islam should be for promoting good deeds and spiritual advancement and religion should distance itself from politics. This is exactly what the Tablighi Jamat is doing.
     
    By Observer - 11/29/2013 12:32:22 AM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Advice To Jamaat al-Tableegh From An Ex-Tableeghi (Abu Massab)

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfeSJlONuLI

     

    Abrar Khan - 1 year ago

     

    Both my grandfather and father were tablighi's. I went on many khuruj's during my teens... often being pressured by others in the mosque during my summer vactions... 3 days, 10 days, 40 days, and honestly in some aspects, Alhamdulillah in some of their practices can be beneficial; however like the Sheikh here said, - it is but another cult in Islam. The education one receives through these jamaat's is comprised from oral traditions that go from person to person, thus weakening legitimacy.

     

    abuseventy - 1 year ago

     

    our prophet saw didnt sit in front of women and deliver lectures he went to people one by one also in the market places he gave dawah he went to taif where he got pelted with stones, he didnt sit on leather chair with smart jubba etc he actullay made physical effort, so follow what he did, he cried for the ummah in duas, in tahajjud he stayed hungry for days, sacrifice was made, its very easy to sit in comfort and criticize, but i know that throughout the world 1000000,s benefit from tableegh

     

    khorshed alam - 7 months ago

     

    Fazail E Amaal is the most read book after the quran. It has changed many peoples lives, I have it in my room. You don't have to be a scholar to read this book, it is very easy to understand. You are making false accusations without even reading it! It has hadith and Quran verses in it and some commentary by Molana Yusuf Khandlawi (RA). Please watch refutation to salafis accusations on fazaile amaal by Mufti Asad Waqas Khalil on youtube.

     

    azhar mehmood96 - 1 year ago

     

    he says that sahaba r.a never spend 3 days or 40 days on tableegh. i have one question. why do you fix the timing of your lecture??

     

    Akmal Syafiq - 1 year ago

     

    Refer to Al Furqan ayah no 63. Assalamualaykum

     

    khorshed alam - 7 months ago

     

    Im not surprised your criticising Fazail E amaal, Nasiruddin Albani even criticised Sahih Bukhari Shareek and Muslim Shareef !

     

    Manhaj As-Saheeh - 7 months ago

     

    Whatever, dont go off topic. Allah is most high, above this throne, whoever says otherwise is a liar and misguided. Qalas, i dont want to argue about your sheikhs. their case is with Allah, no question i have seen stories of shirk in Fazail amaal.

     

    Ahmed Jarral - 6 months ago

     

    These salafis are furthest away from the salafs... that seems quite ironic right?! And why do the salafis gel the need to brandish everyone as a evil doer or ignorant or even a munaafiq AND anything they don't understand the brandish as biddah? The salafis of today need to fix up, and you have become a sect as such... and your school of thought branches off ibn taymiyah

     

    khorshed alam - 7 months ago

     

    For the best answer on this topic, watch sheikh mumtaz ul haq - Where is Allah? The Best Answer to this question is to NOT even think or ask about this Question!!

     

    khorshed alam - 7 months ago

     

    This brother is spreading Fitnah. Tableegh is a dawah mission to spread the Deen of Allah. Who gave you the permission to start a group called Salafi or Ahle Hadith?

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/28/2013 10:48:58 PM
  • To All Respective Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    ‘What is Tablighi Jamaat …  

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_SN_DfLvoc

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/28/2013 10:14:26 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Founder of Tabligh Jamaat Insults Quran in Fazail e Amaal

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r9npgpLP3Q#t=21

     

    khoobroo

     

    3 years ago

     

    Actually Tablighi Jamat is a hidden underground plateform of terrorist organizations. Sipah e Sahaba, Taliban, Al-Qaida etc. are the production of Tablighi Jamat. The belongs to "Najdi School of thought". Najdi School of thought means try to believe in Allah s.w.t without Rasool Allah s.a.w.w. Osama Bin Ladin, Mullah Umar, Dr.Naik, Ghamidi, Tablighi Jamat are from the same school of thought.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/28/2013 10:04:56 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

    THE TABLIGH JAMAAT

    http://csis.org/files/media/csis/pubs/080115_islamic_radical_ideologies.pdf

    The reach and influence of the Tabligh Jamaat are visible at its annual ijtemas in Dhaka

    (Bangladesh), Raiwind (Pakistan) and Bhopal (India). An ijtema is a gathering of the devout

    which usually lasts for about 3 days. The Dhaka and Raiwind ijtemas attract at least a million devotees each while Bhopal gets about half that number. Low-profile and private, these enormous annual events reflect the nature of their organizer, the Tabligh Jamaat. The Tabligh Jamaat is one of the most remarkable in the Islamic world. Founded in the 1920s by Maulana Muhammad Ilyas Kandhalawi in Northern India, the Tabligh Jamaat is today a world-wide missionary organization run out of Nizamuddin in Delhi. The organization has kept its bureaucracy to the very minimum, shuns public ity and works tirelessly through a superbly-organised network of volunteers to propagate the call of its founder “Ai Musalmano! Musalman bano”(O Muslims, become Muslim)

    According to the lore associated with the organization, Maulana Ilyas be gan his activities among a semi-tribal group called the Meo, in the Mewat region of North India. He felt a need to respond to aggressive Hindu proselytizing movements which launched massive efforts in the early twentieth century to reconvert those Hindus who had converted to Islam. Meos had a history of moving back forth between Islam and Hinduism depending upon who held political power in the region they inhabited. When Ilyas started, most Meos were Muslim only in name. They worshipped Hindu deities in their homes and celebrated Hindu religious festivals. They could not recite Shahadah or say their daily ritual prayers. Their birth, marriage, and death rituals were all based on Hindu customs. Maulana Ilyas came to the conclusion that only a grassroots Islamic religious movement could counter this. 42

    He began by establishing a network of mosque-based religious schools to educate Meos about correct Islamic beliefs and practices. But he found that this system inadequate as its functionaries were lacking in enthusiasm, and perhaps zeal. He then came up with a system that is unique in its simplicity and its effectiveness. He motivated Muslims to go in groups of ten to Meo villages.

    The group would go to a village, invite local Muslims to assemble in the mosque and present their message. The message was, and is, very simple.43

    Every Muslim must be able to recite 4 Shahadah (the profession of faith)

    correctly in Arabic.

    A Muslim must learn how to say the Shalat (daily prayers) correctly.

    A Muslim must learn the basic teachings of Islam and to do zikr (ritualized

    remembrance of God through Koranic recitations/prayer)

    4. A Muslim must respect fellow Muslims

    5. A Muslim must be honest and sincere

    while doing the above.

    6. A Muslim must devote time to go forth

    and to spread the word of God.

    A seventh point was added later. Muslims were as ked to abstain from wasting time in idle talk and from sinful deeds. Maulana Ilyas belonged to a family of Ulema with close ties to Deoband. His teachings were based on the Deobandi concept of looking inward and living individual lives in accordance with the Koran and the Hadith in the expectation that this would defend and revitalize Islam. The crux of the Maulana’s message is his sixth commandment. A Muslim MUST go forth to proselytize (it is farzul ain). Failure to do so would be held against him on the Day of Judgment.

    The initial movement in Mewat was spectacularly successful and thousands of Muslims joined Maulana Ilyas. There efforts did lead to signs of Islamic religious revival in the area 44 and encouraged the Maulana to replicate it on a national and later international scale. The basic strategy is stunningly simple. Dedicated Muslims (it is not known definitively whether they undergo formal training as missionaries or not) are organized into groups of ten (called jamaats) under a designated leader. Groups are self-financing and intermingling of classes is compulsory.45

    They are asked to go out on missions that last typically, three days, forty days, four month (chilla) or one year. Shorter tours are in the close vicinity. A forty day tour would typically take the Jamaat across the country while forty day or year-long tours would usually be to destinations abroad. During these tours, the jamaat bases at a local mosque and starts proselytizing door-to-door amongst Muslim households. Individuals and families are asked to come to the local mosque for maghrib (sunset) prayers where they are exposed to the seven commandments and to Tablighi indoctrination.46

    At the end of each tour, each Jamaat is expected to submit a report on its mission; some of these reports (there is no definite information on whether these reports are kept or destroyed) that are available in the public domain provide virtually the only window into the movement. Participation in Tablighi activity is entirely voluntary. Members can leave at any time. The management of the activities of these groups is undertaken by a secretive central set-up at Nizamuddin, New Delhi. The leadership of the group, which is drawn mostly from the descendants of the founder, shun publicity and publish nothing. There is no reliable information about its organizational structure. It is believed that there is a network of ameers with specific responsibility for a designated territorial area. Nothing is known about its membership or the number of full-time workers. Its finances are entirely opaque. It is only known that group has received substantial Saudi funding which may have gone to offset travel costs of missionaries and even to pay salaries of full-time Tablighis.47

    A remarkable feature of the Tabligh is its globalization. It began by establishing branches in West and East Pakistan following the partition of India. It then went to wherever an expatriate South Asian Muslim community existed. Large operations are known to exist in Africa and the UK. It is active in the United States and is known to have a presence in China, Central Asia and possibly, Japan.48

    The first question that is asked by the Tabighi when someone opens the door is “Are you being a good Muslim?” This is the general tone of subsequent interaction. Tablighis would thus generally appear to stay away from politics and socio-economic issues during their proselytizing. This is, however, a contentious issue. There is a school of thought that the Tabligh has a long-term political Islamist agenda and its evangelism is preparing an army of soldiers of Islam. Its secretiveness and its organization along quasi-military lines is also held against it. The fact that prominent Pakistanis including former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, former President Muhammad Rafique Tarar and former Intelligence Chief Javed Nasir have Tabligh connections is often adduced as evidence of its political clout.

    Although Tablighis never talk of violence during their da’was, there can be very little doubt

    where it has proved to be a recruiting ground for terrorists. American Islamic radicals including some who fought in Afghanistan were inducted into Islamic radicalism through American Tablighis. Islamic radicals have also been known to be present during the itjemas where they hand out recruitment pamphlets. There have also been reports that Tablighi Jamaats have, perhaps unwittingly, served as cover for movement of terrorists. The Tabligh, it may be noted, has never denounced radical violence.49 By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/28/2013 9:48:25 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Tablighi Jamaat vs Activism

     

    http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f15/tablighi-jamaat-vs-activism-49487/

     

    Is the Tablighi Jamaat compatible or incompatible with political and community activism? My findings are that the Tablighi Jamaat is an inwards looking movement that appears to do little to address the everyday and long needs and requirements of Muslims in the west. Most active Tablighis I have met are not interested in any forms of activism or even discussing anything of a political or current affairs nature. Conversely, most Muslims who favour political and community activism want nothing to do with the Tablighi movement and rarely even listen to talks given whenever a jamaat visits their masjid.

     

    Salaam,

    My local is a deobandi/tableegi jamaat masjid.

    I read a thread on here where a brother said all they do is 'sleep, read fazail amaal and eat biryani', and i must say i kind of agree with him.

    For people that have never seriously practiced, and for children (aged 16 max) its possibly a good idea to go out with them ONCE.

    Politics/ activisim doesnt really interest me as politicians are all toilets- either they take the p*ss or are full of sh*t. But my political opinions aside tabligi jamaat has got to be the most boring form of dawah there is. Their 'talks' consist of a 5 minute chat about how 'laa ilaha illAllah' consists of 2 elements, which is nonsense. these tools think that you can explain the various elements and nuances of the kalima in a 5minute chat. Their knowledge is very limited and very basic- Ive never heard a tabligi talk about Tauheed. Hence i only really suggest that kids should go out with them, as i do see some benefits they have. Eg drug addicts, youths involved in criminality get turned around by some of the work they do.

    From my observations, they have some cult like tendencies. Ie, they are not allowed to question the elders or the 'ameer saab' of their jamaat. Whereas our deen tells us to ask for proofs, evidence, and to contemplate.

    When they recite Quran they do so at 100 mph with their heads rocking to and fro like they are moshing.

    They spend a lot of time walking in anti clockwise circles in the masjid with rosay beeds doing dhikr- i sense sufism in some of what they do and stand for.

    They claim that they are in the path of Allah, but they havent really got a clue, although im sure they mean well.

    They perform an act they call 'Gasht' which involves knocking on peoples doors and 'calling them to the path of Allah'. They only every knock on the doors of their own chums. I asked a brother why they dont knock on non muslims doors. His response was 'brother we need to get our own house in order first'- total cop out, raised issues of cowardice to me.

    Whats this knocking on doors thing all about anyway? its the practice of jehovahs witnesses and christian missionaries.

    They takes their sleeping bags with them and remind me of boyscouts. Their book, fazail e amaal is a waste of good paper.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/28/2013 9:02:23 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Army Of Darkness

     

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1526793/Army-of-darkness.html

     

    In America, the activities of the Tablighi have been under close scrutiny for some time. A confidential FBI memo, leaked to a television news network last year, portrayed the group's followers as likely to be particularly susceptible to the terrorist cause. "We have a significant presence of Tablighi Jamaat in the US, and we have found that al-Qaeda used them for recruiting, now and in the past," says Michael Heimbach, the deputy chief of the FBI's international terrorism section. Yet, in Britain, the organisation, its shadowy membership and less-than-explicitly stated aims remain virtually unknown.

     

    It should be otherwise, for, while rival Islamic groups flaunt their reach and power, Tablighi Jamaat - loosely translated as "propagators of the faith" - exercises influence in a more discreet, yet more worrying, fashion. The organisation was founded in British-ruled India in 1927, at a time of growing political friction between Hindus and Muslims that led to the partition of the sub-continent in 1948. Both communities rallied their faithful loudly, and one of the voices that rose above the clamour was that of Muhammed Ilyas Kandhalawi, a scholar and cleric who prescribed a strict code of religious observance. Tablighis, however, were taught that their true security - indeed, their religious duty - lay in recruiting as many followers as possible. No limit was placed on the potential pool of converts, and so, implicitly, the ultimate objective was the Tablighisation of the world. The group, for all the mystique that surrounds it, has been diligent, and, today, with a growing presence in the West, it is viewed by anxious critics as a Trojan horse of Islamic fundamentalism.

     

    It operates legally in both Britain and America, and it should be stated that none of its leading figures is known to have said anything that suggests support for terrorism. Indeed, the Tablighis reject any form of political alignment, restricting their activities, according to the group's founding creed, to prayer and self-improvement through intense study of the Koran. So much so, that some hardline Muslim groups have, in the past, attacked Tablighi Jamaat for its conspicuous failure to take a political stance on issues such as Israel and the Iraq war.

     

    Yet, say Western critics, this passivity is not all that it seems. The group's ideal of a world governed by an ultra-conservative, neo-medievalist form of Islam, in which women are subservient and all laws and customs are based on religious dictates, is barely distinguishable from the wish lists of al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

     

    Marc Gaborieau, the head of the School of Indian and South Asian Studies in Paris, and a Western authority on Tablighi Jamaat, says that the group's objective is "the conquest of the world". Less easy to divine, he admits, is the strategy. "It is extremely secretive and suspicious of outsiders and no one at the centre of its activities has been fully identified or has spoken about how it operates. We know that it does not recognise national borders and that, despite its claim to be apolitical, it does have ties with politicians and branches of the military, particularly in Pakistan and Bangladesh."

     

    The modern leadership of the Tablighi is one of its core mysteries. After Kandhalawi's death in 1944, control passed to his son, Muhammed Yusuf, who led a dramatic expansion across the sub-continent until his own death in 1965. It is understood that real power is still held by family members, although how it is exercised, and by whom, remains largely unknown.

    "It operates in every sense as a secret society in this country, as much as elsewhere," says Dr Patrick Sukhdeo, the director of the Institute for the Study of Islam and Christianity. "Its meetings are held behind closed doors. We don't know who attends them. How much money it has. It publishes no minutes or accounts. It doesn't talk about itself. It is extremely difficult to penetrate."

     

    For all its growth, Tablighi Jamaat has, in one sense, changed little. In the early days, it would send its followers out as missionaries. Working in small groups, with few material possessions, they would walk from village to village, denouncing modernity as blasphemy and calling for a return to the 7th-century origins of Islam and what Kandhalawi perceived to be the purity of the faith. Today, the organisation runs on a global scale - it has about 50,000 followers in America alone - but its missionaries still operate in the traditional way, visiting Muslim community groups and mosques to call for a re-embracing of the faith.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/28/2013 8:54:26 PM
  • Very useful information Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia Saheb,  

    Some of the links I was not aware of. Thanks.

    By Sultan Shahin - 11/28/2013 4:26:35 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Dr. Zakir Naik Tablighi Jamaat Fazail-e-Amaal Reply Answer by a Student. FLV

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EluyBEqEsc#t=164

     

    Dr. Zakir Naik Answers 2013 – What’s Wrong With Tablighi Jamaat – Urdu

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8xuvvDpABs#t=357

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/28/2013 12:20:36 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Answer to Ghamidi about Tablighi Jamaat

    http://www.learningace.com/doc/6212642/72a7053d57641bce925c11c1c7553190/answer-to-ghamidi-about-tablighi-jamaat

     

    Everyone well versed in “Urdu” language must listen to this video very carefully.

     

    Of course, all the astute comments after listening will be greatly welcomed. Surely, many of the readers will be much eager to hear valuable comments from Honorable Naseer Ahmed Saheb.

     

    Thank you for listening, I remain

     

    Very respectively yours, rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/28/2013 11:55:52 AM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Question: Does Tablighi Jamaat have terrorist links?

     

    Answer: The association between Tablighi Jamaat and Islamic violence (or jihadism) will be explored in greater detail elsewhere on this website.Tablighi Jamaat claims to be non-political and non-violent. But certainly this is not the full story. There has been real concern about the radicalising effect TJ teaching has on some young men, preparing them for militant Islamism. The intelligence services in France – where Tablighi Jamaat are particularly strong – have referred to the sect as the “antechamber of fundamentalism” and a “fertile breeding ground for terrorism”. The New York Times reported (14 July 2003) that the FBI international terrorist section “found that al-Qaeda used them (TJ) for recruiting now and in the past.”A militant jihadi group like Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, which in October 2005 was banned by the UK government under the Terrorism Act 2000, can claim that “our people are mostly impressed by the TJ. Most of our workers come from the TJ.”Close links have been noted between ...

     

    http://www.experts123.com/q/does-tablighi-jamaat-have-terrorist-links.html

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/28/2013 11:43:17 AM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Tablighi Jamaat: A missionary organization or?

     

    http://proamericanmuslims.wordpress.com

     

    Tablighi Jamaat (TJ) is a very popular Islamic missionary organization working in South Asia. Now almost a century old, TJ functions as an essentially missionary organization trying to impart knowledge of ‘real Islam’ to Muslims and non-Muslims. The core focus of this organization is to educate the world about the basic components of Islam and to promote ‘Islamic’ living.

     

    Besides working on that primary objective, the Jamaat is also known for its rather moderate approach towards Jihad. Apparently, it has no links with the Jihadis and Al-Qaeda as, according to its principles, Jihad can only be waged by an Islamic government, not individuals.

     

    Despite this thinking, TJ is not completely free of Jihadists. As a matter of fact, Jihadis take TJ as the first step towards militancy. In the Taliban stronghold, TJ was very popular. Many of Taliban leaders took some lessons from the Jamaat.

     

    So we need to know more about TJ. In the next post, I will try to come up with the working of TJ and its alleged links with terrorist organizations.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/28/2013 11:32:40 AM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Tablighi Jamaat and Deobandi Taliban in light of Ahadees

     

    http://lubpak.com/archives/285005

     

    Recently a consensus Fatwa of Sunni Ulema declared that Taliban terrorists are Khawarij. It may be noted that Taliban (TTP) and allied terrorist groups including Sipah-e-Sahaba (ASWJ-LeJ), Jaish-e-Muhammad, Jundullah etc are purely Deobandi groups, not a single Sunni Barelvi, Shia or Ahmadi is a part of TTP, ASWJ-LeJ, Jundullah etc. It may also be noted that all leading Deobandi clerics of Pakistan including leaders of the Tablighi Jamaat and Mufti Taqi Usmani etc have never explicitly condmened terrorist activities and suicide bombings by the TTP, ASWJ-LeJ etc. The fatwa of Sunni Ulema cited above was by Sunni Sufi/Barelvi clerics who have little influence on Deobandi madrassas and militants.

     

    Recently, Pakistan’s veteran journalist Nusrat Javed said that Tablighis cultivate the Taliban mindset in Islam loving ordinary people.

     

    In the present post, we have compiled the Ahadith (traditions of Prophet Muhammad) that support the Sunni Sufi/Barelvi Fatwa in both English and Urdu with the Sahih Hadith books references.

     

    The recent growth in Deobandi Tablighi Jamaat activities in Pakistan and internationally provides a fertile ground for a fault finding mission among other Muslims which leads to the religious motivation behind killing those that are not considered “Good Muslims” (i.e., those who are not Deobandis or Salafis/Wahhabis). Many Deobandi terrorists including those operating as Taliban (TTP), Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (ASWJ-LeJ) are known to have emanated from the Tablighi Jamaat. It should also be noted that the Tablighi Jamaat received patronage from General Zia-u-Haq Deobandi, the military dictator of Pakistan. The PMLN and Sharif brothers have very close links with the Tablighi Jamaat. The Jamiat e Ulema e Islam (JUI) and Jamat e Islami too follow the same Deobandi ideology.  The funding comes from the petrodollars of Gulf Monarchies, particularly from Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait and UAE.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/28/2013 11:09:02 AM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Tablighi Jamaat

     

    http://www.globaljihad.net/view_page.asp?id=1656

     

    Despite its pacifist stance, Tablighi Jamaat has appeared on the fringes of numerous terrorism investigations. One of the London 7/7 suicide bombers, Shehzad Tanweer, studied at the Deobandi seminary in Dewsbury and Mohammad Sidique Khan, the leader of the London 7/7 terror plot, was a regular worshipper at the adjoining mosque. Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, was said to have been influenced by Tablighi Jamaat, several of whose adherents were also among those arrested last year over an alleged plot to blow up transatlantic airliners.

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/28/2013 11:01:55 AM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Not bowled over by Tablighi Jamaat

     

    http://www.globalpolitician.com/default.asp?22567-terror

     

    Tablighi Jamaat is not political (as yet). This does not mean that it is a group bursting with sweetness and light. Far from it - it teaches world domination by Islam; it does not recognize the nation state; and teaches the doctrines such as the second class status of women and the sinfulness of both interfaith dialogue and the toleration of non-Muslim religions.

    In December 2006, one London Tablighi imam urged followers, including one of VIGIL’s associates, to spend more time off work and on pilgrimage saying that they had no excuses, especially in a country where they could claim all sorts of state benefits. It is true that Tablighi imams try as best they can to draw followers away from being economically productive in the sense that they urge followers to devote more and more of their time to the Tablighi cult – two days a week becomes two weeks a month becomes six months a year.

    The group is ridiculously secretive – which can only foster outsider suspicions – and certainly its Dewsbury headquarters is more Hitler’s bunker than, just as an example, the welcoming open doors of equivalently proselytizing “happy-clappy” Christian evangelical groups in operation in the UK. Its religious education programs are discriminatory and promote intolerance. Its leadership prefers languages like Urdu to English and its women folk are often dressed from head to toe – thus erecting social barriers rather than dismantling them.

    Tablighi Jamaat seek an Islamic society throughout the world, and that includes Britain. At the last time of counting, 98.3 percent of Britons could think of nothing worse than Britain as an Islamic Society. Perhaps this would explain the findings of an ICM opinion poll in February 2007, to which the Labour MP Sadiq Khan commented, “vast numbers of Muslims feel disengaged and alienated from mainstream British society”… the British Muslim population is only 2.5 percent of the population.

    The London Markaz should be prevented from being built – in the sense that the last thing Britain, let alone London, needs is another “ghetto” (recall radical Muslim Abu Izzadeen last year chiding the Home Secretary in Leytonstone for visiting “Muslim land”) which the Markaz will promote in what is currently a diverse part of the country where Tamils of various religions live peacefully alongside Christians, Hindus, Muslims and Jews.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/28/2013 10:52:26 AM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Pew Research Religion & Public Life Project

     

    http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/15/muslim-networks-and-movements-in-western-europe-tablighi-jamaat/

     

    Theologically, the Tablighi Jama’at movement is closely tied to the scriptural, conservative Deobandi school of Sunni Islam, which emphasizes strict adherence to religious orthodoxy. Most of the religious scholars and leaders associated with the Tablighi Jama’at are followers of Deobandism.

     

    Although Deobandism originated in South Asia (in the town of Deoband, near Delhi in northern India), it has much in common with the Wahhabi style of Islam that is associated with Saudi Arabia’s religious establishment. However, Deobandi doctrine tends to be more flexible than Wahhabism and is more accepting of other Islamic approaches, such as Sufism.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/28/2013 10:44:16 AM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Tableeghi Jamaat Exposed

     

    http://www.islamicacademy.org/html/Articles/English/Tableeghee%20Jma%27at.htm

     

    IN CONCLUSION:

     

    The members of Tableeghi Jamaat have become extremely unpopular with many communities of Muslims throughout the world and even in South Africa. However, many continue to tolerate them. In fact, what they do, in the manner of Christian evangelists, is to play on the guilt of insecure people and then offer them an emotional environment in which they can redeem themselves and find others in a similar plight who are ready for the same treatment. Such "conversions" are frequently very superficial and sometimes superficially quite dangerous for the individuals concerned.

     

    As we have seen, the ludicrous claim is made that the programme of the Tableeghi Jamaat comprises in every respect the way followed by the Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) and his Companions (radia'llahu 'anhum ajma'een), in their establishment of Islam. In fact, the opposite is true. From its inception, the programme of the Tableeghi Jamaat was designed, while giving the appearance of Islamic activity, to leave in place the very Kaafir forces whose explicit intention was precisely the prevention of the establishment of Islam in any real way. In the light of all the foregoing:

     

    1. We declare that the Tableeghi Jamaat is, by its own admission, a deviant sect of Islam and that it is being used by the enemies of Islam to help them in their continuing battle to prevent governance by the laws of Allah from being re-established in the world.

     

    2. We therefore call on the leadership of the Tableeghi Jamaat to acknowledge that they are directly responsible for the misguidance of millions of Muslims and to abandon their present programme which only furthers the interest of the enemies of Allah.

     

    3. We therefore call on all members of the Tableeghi Jamaat to reject the subversive role they have been unwittingly persuaded to play and leave this sect which is being used by the enemies of Islam to prevent Allah's Deen being restored and governance by His Laws re-established.

     

    4. We therefore call on all Muslims to disown the Tableeghi Jamaat and to discourage its activities by refusing to give its members permission to sleep in mosques and to use them for their activities. And we call on all Muslims to reject the modernist perspective of Islam that they have been given to and respond to Allah and His Messenger (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) by giving their wealth and lives to see the totality of Islam once again re-established on the earth.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/28/2013 10:18:42 AM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

    ISLAMIC LEARNING MATERIALS

    http://islamiclearningmaterials.com/tablighi-jamaat/

    What I don’t Like About The Tablighi Jamaat

    Despite my overall favorable impression of the Tablighi Jamaat there are a few things about them that irk me.

    The Talks

    I’m so tired of hearing their members stand up after the prayers, and repeat the same speech, in the same pitch, and in the same rhythm every single time.

    Can we please get some variety?

    It’s like each member has learned and memorized the same speech and all they can do is repeat it every single time. It’s gotten to the point where I don’t even bother to listen to their talks because I already know exactly what they’re going to say.

    The Time

    Second, what’s with the 3 day, 40 day thing?

    Some members of Tablighi Jamaat (not all for sure) make the number of days you spend Fee Sabeelillah almost Waajib (compulsory). They put a lot of emphasis on completing these different levels.

    Once a group came to my local Masjid. I decided to stay with them for the weekend. However, by the second day things happened and I had to go home.

    Mind you, I lived right down the block! Barely a 10 minute walk so it’s not like I was asking anyone to buy me a plane ticket back home or ruining someone’s well-thought out plans.

    Some of the brothers in the Jamaat made me feel so guilty for not completing the full 3 days. What was happening at home meant nothing to them.

    And once again, not everyone on this Jamaat acted like this. A few brothers told me that if I had to go then it was okay and hopefully I could come back another time.

    However, I was a little peeved that some of them were making it seem like I was abandoning one of the five pillars of Islam!This activity was at best, a voluntary one for which Allah would reward us based on our intentions and actions.

    The Isolation

    Finally, it may be beneficial if the members of the Tablighi Jamaat would focus on attaining more Islamic knowledge outside of the Jamaat. Many members seem to get to isolated within this group and neglect their own Islamic education while calling others to the Masjid.

    Obtaining more knowledge about Islam would certainly improve their Da’wah efforts.

    Of course, there are many scholars (ulemah) and students of knowledge who are active participants in the Tablighi Jamaat. So I don’t want you to get the impression that its full of a bunch of dummies.

    But many of them that I’ve met (keeping in mind that most of the Jamaats I’ve been on were in the Americas) seemed to limit their Islamic perspective to that group alone. Some of them do not take the time to broaden their Islamic knowledge outside of the Jamaat.

    Faza’ili Amaal

    The primary text the Tablighi Jamaat uses is one called Faza’ili Amaal (Benefits of Good Deeds).

    Those who criticize Jamaatul Tabligh say that this book of full of weak and fabricated Hadiths.

    I am not qualified to confirm or deny this claim.

    I’ve heard people read from it, and have read some of it myself. But I have never read it in depth, and haven’t read it at all in years.

    I’m sure there’s a free pdf somewhere on the internet, so I’ll probably download it and see what all the fuss is about.

    Nonetheless, given that there is so much criticism against this book, it would seem that the members of Tablighi Jamaat could find another text to rely on. There are more than enough hadith collections and unquestioned texts that they can read and teach from without relying on Faza’ili Amaal.

    That’s pretty much my take on the Tablighi Jamaat. I would like to know what your opinions are about this group.

    Positive? Negative? Neutral? Don’t really care?

    Speak your mind!

    Selected Readers’ Comments are as follows:

    aadhil fowmesays:

    June 4, 2013 at 1:53 AM

    Assalam Alaikum my dear brothers:
    First a fall I say you people to go in Jamaat for 40 days. I don’t know how this happens, but with my real experience I’m 100% sure that by going 40 days,4 months,1 year leaving your family,will make you 100% muslim INSHALLAH! INSHALLAH!INSHALLAH!
    *Being with jamaat,again I don’t know how this happens, Our Imaan and dheen(allah’s(swt) order,and prophet Muhammad(PBUH) life style)increases for a greater level,with the time pass.

    IMPORTANT FACTS;
    It is so sad,and unhappy to leave our family for a short period. yes it is true.But if we take our packings and keep a step out of the house,the time passes so quick,which means the time would spend so quick.

    Zaid Shakursays:

    January 16, 2013 at 2:54 PM

    Keep in mind that the whole Tablighi Jamat movement did not just come about by way of a whole bunch of Pakistani brothers of limited knowledge sitting around sipping Chai and looking for a distraction. NO, this movement was started by great Shuyukh in India, known for their religious learning, piety and sincerity. To say that they were wrong or misguided or even that we could do it better, is a horrendous claim akin to backbitting. We who have no knowledge cannot criticize the work of those who have knowledge. Is the blind equal to the one who can see? Let us be careful of being armchair internet critics and seek Allah’s forgiveness. And Allah knows best.

    Zeeshan says:

    December 29, 2012 at 5:13 AM

    I like tabligi jamat, and i think that it is final solution of Muslim Ummah….

    Abu Sufyaansays:

    November 27, 2012 at 6:15 AM

    Assalaamu alaykum

    Nice balanced artcle.

    Just to add one point regarding the book Fazail Amal , in the middle east , they use Riyadh Us saleeheen instead which gets rid of this critisism. In fact , they are active in Saudi Arabi and you will not hear them using Fazail Amal.

    Also, some of the saudi sheikhs saw nothing wrong with someone joing the TAblighi Jamaat – Shiekh Bin Baz gave some answers to this effect, but later on he changed his opinion.

    Ejaz Abbasisays:

    December 6, 2012 at 10:01 PM

    12 basic rules when going out in Jammat. . 1 Less sleeping, 2. Less eating, 3. Less worldly talk, 4. Less going out of masque. 5. never take anything without the permission, 6. Never desire to ask for something from any one other then Allah. 7. Never disrespect any one, 8. Never leave without informing the leader. 9. Give excessive dawah, 10. Perform excessive ziker and worship reading Quran and hadiths. 11. Give excessive service to your brothers in jamaat and the guests who may join at any given time. 12. Excessive learning and teaching.


    Dear brothers, I have been spending time with the jamaat for over 20 years, though have never gone for more than 10 days at a time, but each time I went the rules above were mentioned. Now if people like myself do not follow them then it would not be fare to call the whole effort as being wrong. Would it? This I found to be a mobile school. I could go on and on with all the benefits that are being driven with this effort, but it will serve you no good. I humbly request my brothers to go out and check it out for yourselves; The worst scenario would be that you would have lost some time out of your life. But again we all are well aware of our time management. Have we not lost time elsewhere? So what if a bit more is lost and I will be sure of what it is all about. So Insha Allah pack up and come to your nearest mosque.

    Abdul Hussainsays:

    September 6, 2012 at 5:39 PM

    Assalamu alaikum all………..

    I read your brothers articles with interest. I have good experience with the Tabligh Jamaat(TJ) both as a participant in the 3 day thing and also as a masjid secretary who arranged their jamaat at times.

    My experience is of a mixed one. while its good to guide people back to islam, it is also our duty to give dawah to non muslims as it will be questioned in the hereafter.

    Another thing is that based on my experience, the individuals are using the jamaat as a way of pleasure…excessive sleeping, using mobiles etc. The also disrespect people of other madhabs..

    The hold the fazail amaal as the only book to base their arguments, the book also contain false hadiths i heard and grave worshipping artcles.

    Also the lecture they hold is same after same..


    The TJ was started from India and they still hold many innovations.

    They are inexperienced to lead such important activity and unless they go back to quran and Sunnah, the jehovas witnesses, who knock on both muslim and non-msuslim doors will overtake By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/28/2013 10:11:20 AM
  • Dear Harsh, as you can see Naseer Saheb cannot see one simple fact that all Islamist terrorists today come from Wahhabi, ahl-e Hadeesi, stream and the Taliban in Pakistan are products of Deobandi madrasas which are also of the same scool of thought. We at New Age Islam have not invented or discovered these facts. Any dimwit can see that anywhere on the internet, in daily newspapers, on television. Sufi shrines/Bareilwis in Pakistan, Sufis everywhere are under attack. This too is a known fact. However, apologists of Wahhabi violence cannot see that. It's an amazing situation. If these facts were New Age Islam's discovery, I could accept somebody not accepting them. Clearly this is just an attempt to protect Wahhabism from attack and promote their violence. Sufi/Bareilwis are simply not in the picture except as victims of Wahhabism-inspired violence. 
    Tablighi Jamaat is not directly involved in violence. But as preacher of Wahhabi ideology of Islam-supremacism, exclusivism, intolerance of other religions and cultures, promoters of medieval Arab bedouin cultural practices, takfirism (which other Wahhabis practice violently), Tablighi name also must crop up in this war of ideas. 
    Naseer Saheb's job clearly is that the work of refutation of violent takfiri ideologies, neo-Kharjism, etc, is not carried forward. Pakistan bans us but apologists of extremism and terrorism in India cannot do that, so they try to scuttle the debate in this way, by a counter attack on Sufi/Bareilwis who figure simply as victims of terrorist violence.
    I am continuing with this debate so that we can continue with our job of refuting terrorist ideologies within Islam. We are not deterred by Pakistani ban. We will not be deterred by attacks from the fundamentalists in India. Let us not forget that the Deoband is in India. Tablighi Jamaat started in India with the avowed aim of taking Mewati Muslims away from Indian cultural practices.
    By Sultan Shahin - 11/28/2013 7:26:25 AM
  • Dear Harsh,

    Very clearly, I disavow and condemn all ideologies that promote hate, excluvism, supremacism, injustice, misogyny etc. and dissociate from all sects that indulge in Takfir. Neither is my intention to show the Barelvi in a poor light. If I speak about the Barelvi, it is only to counter the sectarianism of the Barelvi on this site. See any article on extremism. It is accompanied by condemning the Wahabi/ Ahle Hadith and the Deobandi sects clearly associating every other Sunni sect with the extremism.

    The litmus test, so to say, of the sectarianism on this site is the condemnation of the only non Takfiri Jamat, which eschews violent Jehad and politics and has a 84 year record of being a non controversial apolitical and peaceful Jamat which was not banned even during the emergency when every other Jamat and Sangh was banned. It is condemned only because it is perceived to be Deobandi although the Jamat itself maintains a neutral stand on account of which many Barelvis are also its members.
    By Observer - 11/28/2013 3:20:49 AM
  • For God's sake (as both of you believe in Him) end this debate, it is heading nowhere. I would urge both of you to indulge in, what Keats calls, "negative capability", i.e., try to see things from the other side and depersonalise it. Sultan Sb read Observer's comments from his mindset and Observer Sb do the same.  By Harsh - 11/28/2013 3:01:48 AM
  • Shahin Sb,

    You are the one who is being ridiculous and worse, a deliberate twister of the truth.

    Where did I say that Dawood is a Barelvi ideologue? What I said is that Dawood is a typical Deobandi hating Barelvi.

    I have also said that the Barelvi is a believer in violent Jehad and becoming a pain in the backside of the 'kafir' government, as evidenced by the criticism of the Sufi/Barelvi site Noore Madinah of Tablighi Jamat for not being so.

    I have also said that the Barelvi ideologue Ahmad Raza Khan initiated the Takfiri war, and no Indian ideologue of any sect had before indulged in Takfir. I have also said that Wahab and Ibn Tamaiya are not imams of any sect in India and unlike the Barelvi, for whom many of their ideologues are objects of veneration, for the non Barelvi there are no religious icons and the reason for Ahmed Raza issuing a fatwa of apostasy against the non Barelvi is that in his opinion, the non Barelvi Sunnis do not venerate the Prophet (pbuh) enough. Veneration of imams and religious ideologues is a Barelvi trait. For a non Barelvi, Wahab and Ibn Tamaiya mean nothing,unless he chooses to consciously follow them as a tool to further his political interests. The  political ideology of a Wahab or Ibn Tamaiya is the hand maiden of the politician and not related to the religious belief of any sect. Wahab and Ibn Tamaiya can be identified with political groups but not with any sect.

    Your attempt to quote Wahab, and accuse all non Barelvi Sunnis of following him,  is therefore mischievous.

    All Takfir is violent in intent since according to the classical sharia law, which the Barelvi subscribes to, apostasy is punishable by death. So there is nothing like non violent Takfir and unlike what you are making it out to be, where in a munzara or debate, people end up calling each other Kafir, Ahmad Raza has issued a fatwa declaring every other non-Barelvi including the Shia and the Ahmediyas as apostate and went to the extent of getting his fatwa ratified by as many religious leaders of the time in different countries, as possible. If people have not indulged in killing based on the fatwa, it was only on account of the fear of consequences. Remove the fear and arm the people and then see what happens. That is exactly what is happening today. I disavow all Takfir and dissociate with every sect that indulges in it.

    I have also said that the excessive veneration of the Prophet by the  Barelvi is responsible for the blasphemy laws and targeting of minorities in which the Barelvi is in the forefront. Barelvis are involved in every case of blasphemy as accusers. They also took the lead in getting the Ahmediyas declared as non Muslim minority. Sufis are also in the limelight for forcible conversion of Hindu girls which is no less a crime than extremism.

    To me, being a moderate is to denounce all ideologies that promote hate, violence, exclusiveness, supremacy etc. The point where I differ with others is on associating a sect with a political ideology. I am with others in denouncing the political parties or groups such as the Jamate Islami or the Taliban or Al Qaeda etc. and in the fascist nexus of the Kindom of Saudi Arabia and the ideology of Wahab. But I am not with others when all Saudis are categorised as followers of Wahab and much less the categorisation of sects such as Deobandi and Ahle Hadith as Wahabi. I do not at the same time deny that a fringe are a part of the political parties since political,parties are made of people, but the mischief that they indulge in, is as a member of a political party rather than as following the religious ideology of a sect. 

    As far as radical thinking is concerned, I can easily demonstrate with evidence, that the non Barelvis on this site are more moderate than the Barelvis.

    No matter what, if the debate is of ideas alone, you had no need to make my name. Since in your opinion, I have been as ridiculous as before, you could have dealt with my present ridiculousness and there was no need to take my name. It is as clear as daylight that you use my name only for the personal attacks.

    This present debate is about the Tablighi Jamat alone. Nobody is asking you to like it. After having made your point you can close the topic from your end and shift your attention to your other "pressing subjects". However, when cornered, like the Islamophobes do, you keep widening the topic and bring in extraneous matters and launch personal attacks.

    Are you capable of discussing a topic in a focused manner and closing it without bringing in extraneous issues?

    Can we discuss the Jamat alone and not what Naseer Sb said in the past on another subject?

    By Observer - 11/28/2013 1:52:34 AM
  • Dear Naseer Saheb, you probably missed this comment. I did not expose you, not even recognise you until you brought in Mafia Don Dawood  Ibrahim again and portrayed him as a Sufi/Bareilwi Imam or ideologue. No one other than you can be as ridiculous, so I realised that your friends on the forum are right. Please read this now, if you wish:

    Mr. Naseer Ahmed, anynymity is anonymity when it works. With your correct name, we can relate to your past comments. It is important that we do when you are repeating the same old ones. 
    Who but you would make ridiculous propositions like Sufism being responsible for terrorism because Mafia Don Dawood Ibrahim visits Sufi shrines. No one in the world peddles such nonsense in defence of Wahhabism. And, the fact that Wahhabism is an ideology of hate and creates enmity among Muslims as well among different religious communities is not a discovery made by New Age Islam. It is common knowledge. Books of Wahhabi imams and ideologues are available not just in librararies but even online. Anyone can reach them. Then the ideological affiliation of Islamist terrorists with Wahhabism is also a known fact. 
    We have nothing against Saudi or Wahhabi people, many of whom do not know themselves what their purported ideology is all about. Most of us suffer from this identification with an inherited religion and sect. 
    But if we have to fight terrorism ideologically, we have to call this ideology by the name with which it is known. Since this happens to be Wahhabism, we call it Wahhabism, as the whole world does. This is not a New Age Islam invention or discovery.
    Somehow, your friends recognised you almost immediately. I merely thought of you as an admirer of Maulana Waheeduddin Khan whom I also admire. In any case I concern myself with the message and not identities. But with Dawood Ibrahim being presented again as as a Sufi ideologue and representative of Sufism, I was left with no option. I not only had to recognise you but express my agreement with your friends. 
    Now if you want to denounce only Barailwi Takfirism, which being non-violent is not a priority issue with us, I can suggest a way out. Please write an article on the subject and thus we start a new thread. I am against all Takfirism. We should try and close down all Takfiri factories, violent or non-violent. Opposing terrorism and violence and promoting peace will remain a priority issue with us, but I recognise that all Takfirism is evil and should be opposed. 
    you will find many articles on the site expressing such sentiments.

    ... As a community we are more reactionary and obscurantist that positive and progressive. We live in fear and denial. There is nothing wrong with us; it’s all Jewish conspiracy, Hindu conspiracy, Western imperialist conspiracy, etc. etc. We love living in the past, in the land of pointlessness. So our discussions too are not so much about issues of today as about the bygone past. We revel in discussing ad infinitum the dirty politics of seventh century Arabia and taking sides with one or the other party. We have no present and no plans for the future. As a community, that is. Some individuals, of course, do have plans for themselves as well as for the community and a vision of regeneration for Islam and the Muslim community. But they are reviled for thinking of this word rather than the other world where 72 houris are waiting for them impatiently in a land of milk and honey and of course, plenty of liquor. (In the case of poor women, of course, only their husbands, if any, would be waiting there, and yet some of them become suicide bombers, for some reason.) --Sultan Shahin, Editor, New Age Islam


    http://www.newageislam.com/ijtihad,-rethinking-islam/demolish-kafir/-mushrik/-munafiq-manufacturing-factories,-says-sultan-shahin,-defending-new-age-islam-against-talibani-onslaught/d/1143

    Let us resolve to keep helping Muslims in the New Year mapping an agenda for Islam in the Twenty-first century – the task New Age Islam has set before itself.

    Islam is of course, a universal Deen, for all people in every corner of the world and for all times to come; but in order to fulfil its destiny it has to keep reinventing itself in every new age; it has to be rethought and reinterpreted in the light of the orthodox Islamic principles of Ijtihad, the gates of which were opened for us by Allah and the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and no Muslim has the right to close them down.

    The pace of change has accelerated so much in the last decades that our very way of life has become quite distinct even from the recent past. How does the Islamic way of life mesh into and cope with the demands of the New Age is the major challenge before us Muslims, that too at a time when we have not only vast numbers of Muslim societies in nearly all parts of the world varying from one another in our social norms and customs, but also a vast number of interpretations of Islam resulting in deep sectarian divisions. While for enemies of Islam in the extortionist and exploitative sections of human society Islam is one religion and Muslims are one religious community the world over, for Muslims themselves there are scores of Islams and scores of Muslim communities, nearly all baying for each others’ blood. We apparently need to reboot Islam in our systems.

    Let us at least resolve that in the New Year 2009 we will at least find the lowest common denominator or the greatest common divisor for what should have been the simplest of questions and has become a very complicated one: who is a Muslim? Let us also resolve to work in the New Year towards closing down all the Kafir-and-Mushrik-manufacturing factories that are flourishing so much in our midst. There are so many things to be done; but let us start at the easiest first step. -- Sultan Shahin, editor, New Age Islam
    http://www.newageislam.com/ijtihad,-rethinking-islam/rebooting-islam--let-us-at-least-resolve-the-issue---who-is-a-muslim?/d/1085
    Beware of the Kafir-manufacturing factories: Maulana Nadeem-ul-Wajidi responds to the Fatawahs of Kufr against Dr. Zakir Naik

    A number of Fatawahs have been issued against Dr. Zakir Naik. The Muftees of Deoband had said that he should not be trusted but the Barailwees have crossed all limits. They have asserted that he should be dealt like an infidel "Kafir" and should be excluded from the Muslim community. This was stated by a Barailwee Mufti of Lucknow and it has not been opposed by any of the learned persons of Barailwee thought. The concerned Mufti has demanded from the government to put a ban on the PEACE channel of Dr. Zakir Naik and the fund he is raising should be examined but there is no mention of the wrong beliefs on which basis this Fatwah is issued. Of course it said that he is provoking the young Muslims for terrorism and he favours Osama bin Laden. The question is not whether he is doing this or not. The question is: even if the two charges are authentic or even if any of the two allegations is correct, should he be excluded or banished from Islam or not? If it is correct that Dr. Zakir Naik supports terrorism, the law should take its course but it is not for the Muftiyan to deliver judgments….Such deviated people should try to ponder over their thinking and the ways of dealing with such critical matters. The difference of opinion in the interpretation of spiritual Islamic matters is quite possible but such differences should be sorted out by perfect spiritual and factual reasons and Islamic knowledge in the light of the Quran Kareem and Hadees Shareef, not by denouncing and giving decrees of infidelity (Kufr, Shirk and Fajoor).

    NewAgeIslam.com presents Maulana Nadeem-ul-Wajidi’s impassioned plea for Muslims to behave with sense.  Translated from Urdu by Raihan Nezami, NewAgeIslam.com


    http://www.newageislam.com/the-war-within-islam/beware-of-the-kafir-manufacturing-factories--maulana-nadeem-ul-wajidi-responds-to-the-fatawahs-of-kufr-against-dr-zakir-naik/d/1049
    By Sultan Shahin - 11/28/2013 12:12:37 AM
  • Mr Rafiq Lodhia,

    Shahrukh Khan, a well know and very popular Bollywood film star was detained at American airports by the immigration officials for several hours although he was in the US to deliver an invited lecture at one of the premier Universities. His experience on all previous  visits was similar. Clearly this was on account of his Muslim name alone, since he wears the western dress, is clean shaven and has a Hindu wife. Going by your advice, he should convert and take a nonMuslim  name, because the consequences of his having a Muslim name have been very unpleasant!

    You have been tarnishing the image of a peaceful Jamat who as per your own report is not doing Tabligh (proselytising) but Takriat (working among Muslims alone). Is this tarnishing the image of 10 million Tablighis not more serious than chiding you for doing so? You also pick up what should be apparent to anyone with even a modicum of good sense to be absolute trash, like that blog 'ultimate' truth by an  anonymous Deobandi hating Barelvi blogger whose only other blog is the usual Barelvi rant.

    Regarding my taking a pseudonym, it is in keeping with the policy of this website. I have not crossed any limits of decency or morality. The editor has crossed the limits, by not respecting my desire to maintain anonymity while he allows aNastik  urrani or a Khamabagosh and several others to write anonymously. How would he like, if I revealed the identity of any of them? What is immoral is that the editor will allow some to write anonymously and not others. I have also explained that I chose to keep my identity anonymous only because, when cornered in a debate, the editor launches a fierce personal assault. You are also using my name because you are indulging in a personal attack.

    Mr Lodhia, do not try to teach me morality. My morality is very consistent and in keeping with what I have said on the subject. I also have no desire to insult you, but when you do not let me ignore you, then you should be prepared to hear what I was trying to avoid saying.
    By Observer - 11/27/2013 11:59:58 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    His no-fly nightmare

     

    A U.S. citizen spends 10 days detained in the Bangkok airport. He thinks his name made a secret list.

     

    Naseer Ahmed and his likes who are staunch supporter of “Tablighi Jamaat” must come to senses once of these days. Can any respective reader on the New Age Islam forum be sure to see to it that Honorable Naseer Saheb catch up reading about a young Memon man, Rehan Motiwala, who got caught in a very sticky situation. The story goes as follows:

     

    Motiwala, whose parents are of Pakistani origin, was not told why he might be on the list. A likely possibility, however, is his contact with Tablighi Jamaat, a conservative Muslim missionary movement based in South Asia.

     

    He took leave from medical school last year, traveled to Pakistan to visit relatives and went on to Indonesia to work with the group, members of which go around the world proselytizing for Islam.

     

    Tablighi Jamaat is widely regarded as peaceful and apolitical, and claims millions of followers, but U.S. and European law enforcement officials have raised questions about possible connections to radical Islam.

     

    John Walker Lindh, an American who converted to Islam, met Tablighi missionaries in California before joining the Taliban to fight U.S. forces in Afghanistan. British security officials allege that two of the suicide bombers who attacked the London transit system in 2005 had attended a Tablighi Jamaat mosque.

     

    Motiwala first heard of the movement when he arrived last year in Karachi, the Pakistani mega-city where his family members live. Inspired by the Tablighis' devotion, he began attending their meetings, improved his Urdu language skills, grew a beard and shed his Western clothes for a Pakistani shalwar kameez, a long tunic.

     

    "They were very welcoming," Motiwala said. "We would ask people to come pray at the mosque, talk about the greatness of God, sit in gatherings and listen to prayers."

     

    http://www.latimes.com/la-na-0629-no-fly-20130629,0,7393525.story#axzz2lt0qAkMx

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia being a “Fool” according to Naseer Saheb somehow do possess a small dose of intelligence to realize the exact result of what brainwashing by the “Tablighi Jamaatis” can do to an American Muslim, let alone all the Muslim youths in the Indian subcontinent.     

     

    For now, while we all can keep on wondering as to what made Naseer Saheb switch to “Observer” status, but it seems like his sole aim is not to observe, but to disrupt any reasonable arguments. Perhaps, someone better wise him up to reflect upon Immanuel Kant’s quote as follows:

     

    “Have the courage to use your own reason. That is the motto of enlightenment.”

     

    Better yet, it will be best if all the readers on this forum follow the link of Los Angeles Times to find out why a medical student born in the United States of America and hailing from Anaheim, California wound up with long beard and shalwar kameez? What is this strange love affair with the beards? Is this how Muslims should portray the image of Islam?    

     

    http://www.latimes.com/la-na-0629-no-fly-20130629,0,7393525.story#ixzz2lt10KA00

     

    Thanks again for listening, I remain

     

    Very respectfully yours, rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/27/2013 4:34:09 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Naseer Ahmed Saheb’s while writing about Immanuel Kant’s philosophy somehow forgot his quote:

     Religion is the recognition of all of our duties as divine commands.

     What we the Muslims must do now is to finally come to a foregone conclusion that we have deviated far away from the commandments of our Holy Quran. That is just the bottom line, period.

     Dare to think! Dare to know!

      Sadly, Naseer Saheb did not dared think about the consequences of using the screen name “Observer. Not only this, he does not even want to know about the reports that are being published about the activities of “Tabligh Jamaat.” Just like he covered his name, he also want to cover up the sins of Tablighis. Don’t forget in one of his comments, he literally saluted their wisdom.

     One more thing, if any one of you would like to read more quotes of Immanuel Kant, then click

    on the link: http://myfellowmuslims.org/?page_id=247

     Thanks again for reading, I remain

     Very sincerely yours,

    rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org

       

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/27/2013 4:00:17 PM
  • To: Naseer Ahmed alais Mr. Observer

     

    Read the below comment very carefully and then figure out what went wrong? What made you to switch your good name? How will you respond to a reader named Raihan Nezami?

     

    Janab Ghulam Mohiyuddin Saheb: I am very much obliged to you as out of extreme modesty, you have bracketed me with the exceptionally learned genius intelligentsia and Islamic scholars as well like Mohammad Yunus sb, Sultan Shahin sb, Naseer Ahmed sb which I simply don’t deserve. Actually this place belongs to you or Janab Manzoorul Haque sb and many more on this site, who have proved their wisdom and scholarship. Plainly speaking it is an insult to them to be grouped with me except on condition that we all are Muslims and May Allah Kareem keep us united with all other Muslims. This group has been the source of Islamic knowledge and rational thinking for the miniature like me and numerous other readers on this site. I am common Muslim who expresses what he thinks out of his little basic knowledge of Islam. So please let me remain a simple learner of these scholars what I please to do here.


    By Raihan Nezami - 10/28/2012 11:29:17 PM

     

    Well, before you insult another Muslim on account of not being able to answer the concerns raised in a straight manner, then person like Raihan Nezami will start to question your scholarly integrity? What more can I say, Naseer Ahmed Saheb?

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/27/2013 3:44:37 PM
  • To: Naseer Ahmed alais Mr. Observer

     

    Let me give you a piece of advice. Do not presume anything. Quote me to make your point.

     

    Alright then, you once stated, ‘As far as treatment of other people is concerned, it should be consistent with respect for their dignity.” This sentence was in your article titled, “Islam and Kant’s Principle of Morality” dated August 9, 2012.

     

    Now you tell me what went wrong when you read my comments and try to portray as if I am a “Fool” and an “Ultimate Scavenger. Of course, I am not presuming here, but wasn’t it you who defined my personality as such without respecting the dignity of another human? You wrote in length about “Morality, then for crying out loud what on earth happened?

     

    I have not asked you or anyone to like Tablighi Jamat, much less join it. As a matter of fact, I mentioned that I have my own personal reasons for keeping away from it.

     

    Alright then, you mentioned that you have your own personal reasons for keeping away from “Tabligh Jamaat.” If that be the case, then why don’t you list all the major and minor reasons for keeping away from the missionary organization which you continue to claim as pious and holy? You are an intelligent man who can twist and turn with your words, though  a simple explanation jotting down the well thought out reasons will suffice.  

     

    The simple debate here is that apart from your personal whims, you have no objective reason to oppose the Tablighi Jamat nor is there any justification for anyone to consider all non Barelvi sects as Wahabi.

     

    Alright then, where did you spotted the personal whims? Share your thoughts so that the readers on the New Age Islam forum can also be duly enlightened by your response. It is better that a scholar like you set the record straight once and for all. If Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia is such a scavenger as you so claim, then at least make a sincere attempt to explain to me as to that that I can repent. Naseer Ahmed Saheb, I am all ears.       

     

    rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org

     

       

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/27/2013 3:35:49 PM
  • Head-on confrontation of any sect produces more heat than light. It actually exacerbates sectarianism. All sects have their faults. Our discussion should be more about values that we cherish and trends that we dislike. We cherish personal freedoms, inclusiveness, tolerance, integrated and pluralistic societies,  nonviolence and ijtihad. We dislike extremism, coercion, supremacism, violence, hate and obscurantist fatwas. -
    Islam should be based on upholding of values and principles rather than on exaltation of persons or sects. By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 11/27/2013 12:59:16 PM
  • Dear Sultan Shahin Sahab,

    I endorse your following statement which has a reference to me: "I believe It is important for us to know and also to refute this hateful ideology.Yunus Saheb is engaged in this task, the most important task before Muslims of today that unfortunately no one else is doing. He is also engaged in presenting a viable and coherent moderate narrative."

    I have kept out of the ongoing debate for I am trained to return rudeness with rudeness as rudeness itself is evil and we are commanded to return evil with good. Anyway, you have my take on the issue in my recent article awaiting posting, which, like my other essays, takes a broader view of the issues facing Islam as whole from the Qur'anic perspective.
    By muhammad yunus - 11/27/2013 8:09:35 AM
  • Dear Ravi kumar,I like your comment where you said, "the long and the short of the all the discussions is that mr observer is extremist supporter and mr sultan shahin is moderate supporter and is moderate".
    By Ghulam Ghaus غلام غوث - 11/27/2013 6:39:56 AM
  • the long and the short of the all the discussions is that mr observer is extremist supporter and mr sultan shahin is moderate supporter and is moderate. By Ravi Kumar - 11/27/2013 6:12:23 AM
  • dear observer as according to your mr sultan shahin, you are naseer sb.
    from all the comments made till now i find you guilty, the supporter of wahabism who caused split in the beginning in the arabian penisnula killing numerous lives all from among the muslims who did not support muhammad bin abdul wahhab. 
    you are supporting not only wahhabism but terrorists also, you are supporting talibanis in afghanistan, alqaeda, are yar in short all the terrorist groups are today from among the followers of wahhabim.
    not only that the followeres are killing people but also the wahhabi  scholars are supporting them and sending them to their so called Heaven. 
    sultan shahin seems to be good enough to be well-supported. 
    By Ravi Kumar - 11/27/2013 6:09:19 AM
  • Harsh, I plead guilty. However I intended to stay away but when people think that you have run away and are crowing, it is better to return and set the record straight. By Observer - 11/27/2013 3:14:13 AM
  • Let me put my difference with Ghulam Mohyideen Sb in the past in its right perspective. He had a very strong presumption which he thought to be the truth and accused me of something which I proved to be wrong. His presumption, I later attributed to his misunderstanding and not to a deliberate lie and there the matter rests.

    I must thank Ghulam Mohyideen Sb for not rising to the bait the last time Shahin Sb  raked it up. On the contrary he spoke up for me when Shahin Sb went ballistic with his personal assault on me.

    I have great respect for Ghulam Mohyideen Sb who is a true blood moderate and an indefatigable defender of Islam. The reason that I am back is also because of him. He was facing Khalid Suhail, Hats Off,  Rational and Afaq alone who were  on a rampage with reference to Moulana Waheeduddin's article on "Islamic Separatism."  I pitched in for old times sake.

    By Observer - 11/27/2013 3:09:56 AM
  • It has been proved, without any doubt, that Mr Observer is not a man of his words. He had said a few comments earlier that this would be his last comment, but even after that he is continuing to comment. And Mr Observer, let me assure you that I am not in the coterie of Sultan, Sadaf and Lodhia. I would, however, like him to continue with this site, because I like to read his intelligent works.  By Harsh - 11/27/2013 3:05:35 AM
  • Shahin Sb,

    Clearly you and me disagree on who and what is human. I go by Ghalib's idea in "Aadmi ko bhi mayasar nahin insan hona"

    Now let me tell you that Wahab is not venerated by the Tablighi and not even his reformist ideas   are discussed or are part of their books. So much for your clubbing all Ahle Hadith, Deobandi and Tablighi as Wahabi. Believe me I did not ever hear the name of Ibn Tamaiya or Wahab from any Tablighi. You can educate all of us about Wahab and Ibn Tamaiya and hope to transform us but I see that the Barelvi on this site is already a Wahabi. You are a Wahabi in your stereotyping of all non Barelvi sects. The Islamopohobe quotes a verse and hadith and tells us this what Islam is. Likewise, you quote Wahab or Ibn Tamaiya and say this is what every Deobandi is including the Tabligh Jamat. What is the difference?

    As far as foul language is concerned, I do not use it as I can deal with any foul mouthed brute without responding in kind.

    As far as behaviour is concerned, how would you describe the three of you (Sadaf, Lodhia and yourself) each corroborating the others lies and slander thinking that I would not return? You were behaving like a pack of hyenas. 
    By Observer - 11/27/2013 2:37:22 AM
  • No, Naseer Sb., Taliban are not sub-human. They are very much human and also very much Muslim. Humans and Muslims should deal with that. In any case, I have no power to throw people out of humanity or Islam. Don't wash your hands off them either as a human or as a Muslim. Introspect, why and how, through what processes, under what circumstances, can humans and Muslims turn into such dastardly killers of innocent men, women and children and have their action be considered pure Islam, leading them to heaven.  How can very well educated theologians justify their actions as in accordance with Quran and Sunnah?

    Persuading to become a suicide bomber must be the most difficult job in the world. Well nigh impossible. But how come an army of Muslim suicide bombers is available wherever you need them. Does this not bother you?

    And, no, I a not targeting a single individual of any sect, only the ideology of hate and violence, that too largely because, this ideology calls itself pure Islam. I have a different view of Islam. This is y religion. So when Abdul Wahhab says that even if some one is a Muwahhid, he cannot be a true Muslim unless he carries hate and enmity in his heart towards Mushrikeen and Munafiqeen and shows it in his speech and action, I cannot help getting angry. You apparently agree with him, so you don't like him being quoted and shown as a hateful creature and an enemy of Islam. You will say you don't agree with him, then what is the problem. Why should his ideology not be exposed? Why should Muslims not be asked to distance themselves from this ideology?

    There are other ideologies of hate in the world and we should all oppose them too. But charity should begin with home. Le us first tackle our own hatemongers. Calling them sub-human or kafir and washing our hands off them is an easy way out that I don't want to take. In fact these are not way outs at all.

    By Sultan Shahin - 11/27/2013 1:26:06 AM
  • Naseer Sb., Why is quoting Wahhab's line on how Muslims should treat non Muslims"a very sectarian position?"

    I want Muslims to know what is the origin of terrorism? Why is Tablighi Jamaat seeking to wean Muslims away from their culture? Where is all this hate coming from?  Why should Muslims not know what is the philosophy of Abdul Wahha and Ibn-e-Taimiya that is being so aggressively peddled by the Saudi-Wahhabi state? We are in the middle of a war. Tomorrow you could be killed f you decided to visit a Sufi shrine for whatever reason. You cold have ben killed in the Patna blasts. Why should Muslims not know what and who is behind all this. Why is quoting Taimiya and Abdul Wahhab's hateful comments towards all non-Muslims (including 90 per cent of Muslims) so very sectarian? Why should we not protect ourselves from Wahhabism, the ne-Kharji ideology of our era?

    I believe It is important for us to know and also to refute this hateful ideology.Yunus Saheb is engaged in this task, the most important task before Muslims of today that unfortunately no one else is doing. He is also engaged in presenting a viable and coherent moderate narrative. An equally important, if not even more important task before the Muslim community.

    I told you I found the brief narrative of our core ideology unexceptionable and very well put. I particularly liked the part about democracy and Islam. This is precisely my view. This site needs people like you who can carry tis message forward. That is why I even ignore your foul language. But you must understand that refuting hate ideologies within Islam is equally important. Our first priority should be to fight this war. We cannot afford to be squeamish about things when someone is standing with a sword over our necks.

    However, if this hate is coming from non-Wahhabi ideologies, expose that too. Refute that too. New Age Islam as a website has no problem with that whatsoever. I showed to you Deobandi ideologue Maulana Nadeemul Wajidi's article refuting Barailwi fatwa against Zakir Naik. We translated that in English and presented to our readers long before you were associated with the site. I am against all takfir. I would not even like to wash my hands off the Taliban, saying I do not consider them Muslim. We have to accept that they come from an old Islamic strain of extremism that has nearly always been with us in history, sometimes dominant, sometimes dormant.

    By Sultan Shahin - 11/27/2013 1:01:38 AM
  • Shahin Sb,

    If I said that the Taliban are sub human to kill innocents, would you disagree?

    So what is wrong when somebody says that stereotyping the behavior of  all non Barelvi sects for the acts of the fringe is subhuman? Are you not targeting every single member of various sects?
    By Observer - 11/27/2013 12:42:45 AM
  • Mr Lodhia,
    Let me give you a piece of advice. Do not presume anything. Quote me to make your point.
    I have not asked you or anyone to like Tablighi Jamat, much less join it. As a matter of fact, I mentioned that I have my own personal reasons for keeping away from it.
    My objection is to Ghaus Sbs post on the subject criticizing it.
    That there will be many who will question its Aqeedah and methods is a given. That is not the debate here. A Muslim may not agree with the Aqeedah of a Christian but should he oppose any peaceful Christian missionary movement?
    You will respond that the Wahabi will not allow it. Agreed. So the Wahabi is a damned bigoted zealot. That is also not the debate here.
    The simple debate here is that apart from your personal whims, you have no objective reason to oppose the Tablighi Jamat nor is there any justification for anyone to consider all non Barelvi sects as Wahabi. By Observer - 11/27/2013 12:36:21 AM
  • Mr. Observer alais Naseer Ahmed

     

    You wrote, “On this very site, I was teaming up quite well with Muhammad Yunus Sb to debate on important topics with people to make them understand the true message of Islam which as we all agree is pluralistic, inclusive, peaceful, compassionate and just.”

     

    Well then, teach this “Fool” about the ways of “Tabligh Jamaat” so that I can learn your ways of Islam that is pluralistic, inclusive, peaceful, compassionate and just.

     

    Tell me, Tablighis going away to faraway lands by leaving their sick parents and pregnant wives is a compassionate act, Mr. Scholar? Trust me, I am all ears to hear your views. You seem to be truly dodging to answer such sensitive questions. Be bold and courageous to tell the “Truth.    

     

    You have already labelled me with all sorts of names. Now at least act like a “Gentleman” to answer the “Ultimate Scavenger.” Remember that, Janab Naseer Ahmed Saheb.

     

    Well, if you cannot do it, then I will take all your messages directed to me and show the whole Muslim world. This is not a threat, but it is a fact of life. “Certified Muslim Bashers” must finally be exposed for misleading the Muslim youths.          

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia   

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/27/2013 12:29:07 AM
  • So you never use foul language, Naseer Saheb.

    So this is what must have happened in Ghulam Mohiyuddin Saheb's case as well.

    "I do not use foul language. I nail a lie and call `slander' slander. I respond to rudeness with rudeness. Foul Language never. Lies never."

    Naseer Sb., Apparently it is GM Saheb who must have done all this and you responded to rudeness with rudeness, nailed his lie, called his slander slander.
     
    Great!
     
    By the way, who called you subhuman?
    By Sultan Shahin - 11/27/2013 12:24:18 AM
  • Mr Lodhia says:
    "“Let us close this debate. Why do you want to close it? Why are you afraid to give an honest to goodness answer to my comments?"

    Now who is prolonging? Make a list of all your points and I will respond to each one of them and then let us end it or go on like this forever. The choice is yours.

    I will respond to anything that you insist that I respond to but will not respond on my own on your posts that show you in a poor light. Believe me, I want to spare you.

    So be my guest and tell me exactly what is it  you want me to respond to.
    By Observer - 11/27/2013 12:22:30 AM
  • Mr. Observer alais Naseer Ahmed

     

    That’s right. How can a fool become educated? You tell me Mr. Scholar? You are making a bigger fool by trying to run away from answering.

     

    Forget the rightist movement. That’s just another spin which Muslim intellectuals uses when the facts comes out in the public square.

     

    You are a perfect camouflage. You are too busy and want to undermine the religion of Islam by continuing to support “Tabligh Jamaat” who rely less on Holy Quran, but more on the fabricated Hadiths and their own fairy tales.  And then you call them the most holiest of Islamic organization? That’s a joke of the century, Mr. Observer.

     

    Yes, you should be responding to all the posts which this fool is directing towards you. Don’t you want a fool to learn? Then teach me why “Tabligh Jamaat” is good for all the Muslims to join? Perhaps, you can win me your way so that I can save money by not purchasing Gillette shaving cream any more, and will certainly give up my “Loongi” and wear “Kurta & Pyjama” for good. Is that what you desire all Muslims to do?   

     

    One more thing, you have to do one hell of a job to convince me that “Tabligh Jamaat” holds on to the commandments of Holy Quran. If you cannot prove it, then you are just another one of those intellectuals who are busy misguiding the Muslim Ummah.   

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia   

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/27/2013 12:17:15 AM
  • Shahin Sb,
    On this very site, I was teaming up quite well with Muhammad Yunus Sb to debate on important topics with people to make them understand the true message of Islam which as we all agree is pluralistic, inclusive, peaceful, compassionate and just.
    I cannot say that we achieved a great deal of success, but many aggressive participants in the debate, at least kept quiet after a very active participation with extreme view points. The aggressive participants by the way are all Barelvi.
    Going by those discussions and the fact that you mentioned that you took me to be a great admirer of Moulana Waheeduddin and having read my articles can you honestly call me a 'Wahabi'. You know very well that a true blood Kharij would behead me for my views which come nowhere close to `Wahabism'. You also know very well that I am not a defender of Wahabism but only object to the naked sectarianism on this site. You have yourself accused all non Barelvis to be followers of Wahab and you quote Wahab's line on how Muslims should treat non Muslims. Is that not a very sectarian position? By Observer - 11/27/2013 12:13:14 AM
  • Of course, Dawood Ibrahim does what ISI tells him. You said he supports Lashkar-e-Taiba. Of course, he must be. He would support all Wahhabi terrorist organisations, as he is working for ISI. These are creations of Pakistan's ISI for which he works.

    But why is he relevant in a thread about growth of Wahhabism in India? He is not a Wahhabi ideologue, is he? Is that your contention? He is a criminal turned ISI-supported terrorist. Such people do not require any kind of indoctrination. He is not relevant in an ideology-related discussion. He is just a diversion created by someone who wants to stop people from discussing the bane of Wahhabism. He is not a Wahhabi; he is not a Sufi. Far from bring any kind of ideologue. He is a criminal, a Mafia Don, a Terrorist. India should get hold of him. He has caused us much grief. He is not going to give you any reward either for elevating him to the position of an Imam comparable to Imam ibn-e-Taimiya.

    By Sultan Shahin - 11/27/2013 12:10:33 AM
  • Mr. Observer alais Naseer Ahmed

     

    “Let us close this debate. Why do you want to close it? Why are you afraid to give an honest to goodness answer to my comments?

     

    For sure, you cannot and the only reply will be your usual bully way of answering. What else is new, Mr. Observer?

     

    Read your own comment as follows:

     

    After all this discussion, I find that no one has a single objective reason to oppose the Jamat. One could still dislike it for personal reasons. If people accept this the debate end. How am I distracting anyone? If people have not been able to come up with a single objective reason to denounce the Jamat but only engage in sectarian rhetoric am I to blame?

     

    No, you are not to be blamed, but instead, you must read the articles, view the Youtube video and ponder over few comments about “Tabligh Jamaat” so that you will be able to permanently stop your spin. You have thus far skilfully avoided answering in a scholarly manner.     

     

    The word to the wise is sufficient.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/27/2013 12:02:35 AM
  • Mr Shahin, I do not use foul language. I nail a lie and call `slander' slander. I respond to rudeness with rudeness. Foul Language never. Lies never. Prove otherwise if you wish. By Observer - 11/26/2013 11:58:19 PM
  • Mr Lodhia,

    As Hats Off said, you made a fool of yourself last time. This time you are making a bigger fool of yourself.

    Ghulam Mohyideen Sb has made an appropriate comment on the article you mentioned and nothing more needs to be said. However, I can understand the discomfort of the Rightists regarding the movement. If Jehad is not apparent it must be `stealth jehad' is it not? For those who want to see  evil, they can interpret innocence as a clever camouflage for  evil.    Should I be responding to all such posts?

    By the way I have heard/seen the video and read the article THE TRUE COLOURS OF TABLIGH JAMAT.

    Please do not insist that I comment on these or you will have more reasons to regret. Was that more bullying?

    By Observer - 11/26/2013 11:52:15 PM
  • You are right Naseer Saheb, I never wanted you to leave, to hound you out, or something like that you said. I just want you to discuss Wahhabism in this thread that is about the growing influence of Whhabism in India, starting from an article in The Hindu. If the subject you want to discuss is Takfirism in Islam or specifically non-violent Barailvi Takfirism, write an article on the subject. My offer is long standing from the time you used to use your real name. Probably scores of time I have asked you to write about the subject you want to discuss. But do not bring in extraneous issues on this and other threads about other issues. That will only be construed as a diversionary tactic. An attept at not letting us discuss the bane of Wahhabism.  On this thread you can defend Wahhabism, though. Do that by all means. You never do that. Like Mohd Yonus Rational, you just want something else to be discussed, not Wahhabi radicalism.

    As for our foul language no one on this forum has been safe. Maybe this is one of Kant's teachings. For, I know Islam did not teach uncivilized behaviour. So we are all by now used to that. But it is important for new readers also to know that Observer is the same good old Naseer Saheb, doing everything, saying everything that he has done or said before. I am not roping in Ghulam Mohiyudin Saheb – what for? – I am telling you why I have become immune to the foulness of your language.If some one like him is no safe, no one is.  In any case “subhumans” on this frum should not be very sensitive.

    However, I still hope that now that Wahhabi terrorism has allegedly reached your neighbourhood in Patna, maybe you start getting worried about Tablighis, ahl-e-Hadeesis and all other Wahhabis. I hope you were safe from the noise and smoke of Patna blasts.

    By Sultan Shahin - 11/26/2013 11:48:31 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

    Mr. Naseer Ahmed – How would you analyze this particular comment?

    Eccentric answered 6 years ago

    A new sect of Islam is known as Tablighi jam at.


    They don't think they are new but they have invented many new things in Islam which never before. like high ankle pajama, long beard, always keep a small stick (Miswaak) in hand, they don't read whole Quran, just few selected Ayats. They focus more on some corrupted Hadiths rather than Quran. their focus is to change the outer looks of a Muslims. their aim is to do some selected Ibaadat and nothing else. they think, its Haraam to indulge oneself in worlds affair. according to them pictures TV radio and every new things invented is Haraam.

    As far as Daawa is concern they just misguide people. asked them to leave their homes their small kids, their wives, their old parents and traveled with them for Dawah which is totally unacceptable in Islam.
    they only focus to give Daawa to Muslims only. They rarely give Daawa to non Muslims. as they don't have enough knowledge of Islam to discuss with non Muslims. they think asking question about religion is Haraam. they discouraged Muslims to ask questions about religion. they also discourged women to work outside. to go out side without full BURQA. they are very strict with their women.

    Source: I have written above from my own personal experiences

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/26/2013 11:44:39 PM
  • Shahin Sb, Is not your last post more rhetoric?
    I will answer  your question regarding its origins separately or better still all your and your teams questions in one go and then let us close this debate. By Observer - 11/26/2013 11:41:16 PM
  • Mr. Not Quite So Good Of An “Observer.”

     

    Mr. Observer wrote: Mr Lodhia, the scavenger that you are, you can be expected to unload truckloads of garbage. I ignored your garbage the first time also but responded when you insisted on a response and made clear why I did not wish to engage with you further.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s rebuttal: Bullying tactic. That is all you must have learned from your “Tabligh Jamaat.” Sultan Shahin Saheb was nice enough to endorse your qualification as a “Scholar.” Having stated this by him and having read the same by me, I remain dumbfounded as to why the word “Decency” does not exist in your Tablighi dictionary?

     

    Mr. Observer wrote: A massive and very successful movement such as the Tablighi Jamat will have a large number of people, who are to the right of the center who will be be opposed to it and will attack it with innuendo. You will find plenty of innuendo but nothing that sticks. Why do I have to tell you this if you had the good sense  to know this yourself? And why should I waste my time on you any further?

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s rebuttal: Quite conveniently, you skipped reading what I expressed in my rebuttal to you about “Tabligh Jamaat” devotees’ behavior. Of course, what matters to you, is your own version only, and the hell with other’s viewpoints.  

     

    Mr. Observer wrote: The Indian intelligence agencies also keep a tab on it activities as they do for any other similar organization and the proof of its clean chit is that the TJ was the only Jamat/Sangh that was not banned during the emergency years.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s rebuttal: Why not at least make an honest attempt to read the reports which I posted on New Age Islam? A genuine scholar should never ever be “Intellectually Dishonest” so to speak.

     

    Mr. Observer wrote: The fact that the "modern" Muslim' is uncomfortable with his Muslim identity makes him very apprehensive about the Jamat. Their dislike for the Jamat is understandable but  likes or dislikes are personal whims.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s rebuttal: I have no use for “Cult. Any religious association that insists upon certain dress codes, and on top of that it, demands the followers to sport  beards. Wearing kurta and ankle height pyjama does not reflect the true image of Islam. Show me one Quranic verse which states something about “Beards,” or for that matter, any particular uniform dresses to run the Islamic Jamaats around the globe. Can you, Mr. Observer?       

     

    Mr. Observer wrote: For any person who is following the debate, it should be apparent  

    that no person has been able to put forth an objective reason for opposing the Tablighi Jamat and as a matter of fact no country in the world has found an objective reason to curb the activities of the Jamat.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s rebuttal: You are not a blind scholar, or are you? You can certainly read everything that suits you. Why don’t you read the article by Alex Alexiev titled “Tablighi Jamaat: Jihad’s Stealthy Legions, and then brag about how holy is your “Tabligh Jamaat.”

     

    Mr. Observer wrote: The vicious attack on the Jmat has now turned into a personal attack simply because you have lost the debate. The opposition is simply the Barelvi opposition to what is known as a Deobandi Jamat.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s rebuttal: What nonsense? I do not give a hoot about Barelvi nor Deobandi. Mind you that the young American Muslims do not even care about all such stupidity. Go preach to the uneducated ones who will blindly follow “Tabligh Jamaat.” Keep the Muslim youth backward and train them to continue to bicker all day long. What sort of mindset do you possess, Mr. Observer? You know that the “Curiosity” is roving on Mars

    and here you are involved in petty disputes about Barelvi and Deobandi. Wake up! We are now living in the 21st century.     

     

    Mr. Observer wrote: Neither Shahin Sb nor others will respond to the certificate given by the Sufi/Barelvi website Noore Madinah which criticises the Jamat for eschewing violent Jehad and for not having anything in its programme that inconveniences a "kafir" government. While it is the ultimate endorsement by a hostile sect, it also reveals mindset of the Sufi/Barelvi

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia: I could care less about any “Certificates.” As a learned man and a scholar, you should at least possess “Moral Sense” to keep the discourse at a respectable level instead of using the bullying tactics to debate with your fellow Muslims. Shame on you!      

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/26/2013 11:39:15 PM
  • On the Tablighis, I wrote to you this. Plus there is plenty of material on the internet and libraries. You can even see Tablighi-afflicted Muslims walking on the streets in Patna looking like weirdoes from the distant past. Is this how you want Muslims to look and behave?

    Mr. Naseer Ahmed, any one who knows anything about Tablighis knows that this organisation was started with the purpose of alienating Muslims from their cultural practices and their civilisational milieu and has been doing that successfully with support of intellectuals like you. Most people do not announce their nefarious designs in books. As you said, they come from Deobandi-Wahhabi stream and have been spreading   supremacism, exclusivism, obscurantism and fundamentalism of all sorts, creating a very conducive environment for extremism, radicalism, militancy to grow.  I do not, however, expect apologists for Saudi-Wahhabism to accept this. I cannot believe, however, that you do not know this.  it is common knowledge how and why Tablighi Jamaat came into being any why Saudi state gives it such massive support. By Sultan Shahin - 11/25/2013 11:38:21 AM

    By Sultan Shahin - 11/26/2013 11:32:05 PM
  • Naseer Sb., This too requires your attention:

    There are no Jehadis among Sufi/ Barelvis. Now is the time for you to bring in Mafia Don Dawood Ibrahim and the murderer of Salman Taseer who visited Sufi shrines like the rest of the Muslim community minus Wahhabis.

    However, there are many normal Muslims who are becoming militant now. Indeed until a few decades ago most of the community was peaceful and believed in co-existence and pluralism. Don't forget that the Pashtun community from where the Taliban come was Gandhian follower of Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan not very long ago. Now don't start blaming Gandhism for terrorism. Sarhadi Gandhi had learnt Gandhian non-violence not from Mahatma Gandhi, but from Islam.

    It's the intrusion of Saudi-Wahhabism that turned many of the same people into terrorists. Now they justify wanton violence against innocent civilians according to their ideology that they call pure Islam.

    Any one who looks at Islam as a peaceful religion must oppose that. Of course, those who think Islam is a religion of terrorism and violence, supremacism and obscurantism, will support them. One of the ways of supporting them is to divert all discussion about Wahhabism towards other sects and shortcomings of other sects. This is the route you and Mohammad Yunus rational have chosen.

    I would advise other moderates on the site not to fall in this trap and maintain their focus on presenting Islam as a religion of moderation.

    By Sultan Shahin - 11/26/2013 11:26:13 PM
  • Shahin Sb,

    The mastermind appears to have been a PhD in psychology and not some foot soldier.

    Why did these boys choose Modi's planned visit and not Nitish Kumar's or a religious place?

    Don't tell  me these boys decide for themselves.They are from a vulnerable section of society and can be exploited and are exploited.

    Dawood Ibrahim is however both the leader, planner, financier and executioner of his plans. 

    Dawood is believed to remotely control many such incidents and India has taken  up such cases with the Pakistan government.
    By Observer - 11/26/2013 11:25:25 PM
  • To All Respective Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    My Fellow Muslims,

     

    My personal request is to view this YouTube video and let someone on this forum make sure that Honorable Scholar Naseer Ahmed can at least make a comment after listening to this video clipping.  

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZwqxI36vks

     

    Sultan Shahin Saheb, please be kind to encourage the New Age Islam forum respective readers to set the record straight about “Tabligh Jamaat.” If you do not, then the so-called scholar will continue to spin his own theory and get everyone running around in circles over and over again. I say, it is high time to prove Naseer Ahmed Saheb wrong.

     

    Sincerely yours, rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/26/2013 11:23:14 PM
  • Naseer Sb., The comment you are quoting from is this. Full Text:

    Mr. Naseer Ahmed, you bring in Sufi/Bareilwis only to distract moderates' attention from the subject. We are discussing the growing influence of Wahhabi Islam in India. However, you do not want this subject discussed, so, like mohd yunus rational, keep bringing in other issues, whatever issues will rescue your sect. 


    This site has nothing to do with any sect whatsoever. The report we are discussing appeared originally in The Hindu, probably the most respected, independent newspaper of India. The entire world today is discussing the bane of Saudi-Wahhabism. So are readers of this website. That Saudis are deploying talented people like you to infiltrate extraneous issues into the discussion, shows that probably they are getting desperate at the entire world understanding their game and condemning their attempt to colonise Muslim minds through organisations like Tablighi Jamaat.
      Now that the US has entered into a deal with Iran disregarding the imperial and sectarian interests of its ally, the Saudi-Wahhabism and Israeli Zionism, maybe that explains the desperation. 
    No amount of mudslinging by Saudi-Wahhabis is going to damage the reputation of this website.
    Instead of trying to distract us, why don't you try to defend your murderous creed. Violent Takfiri Wahhabism appears to be winning new converts among Muslims; so why are you so desperate? Maybe you know your weaknesses more than we do. 
    I assure you peaceful Islam will defeat you. Your petrodollars and American, Zionist support to Jihadism is not going to save Wahhabism. Neo-Kharjism will die the same death ads did the original Kharjism.
    By Sultan Shahin - 11/25/2013 8:23:54 PM By Sultan Shahin - 11/26/2013 11:18:04 PM
  • Sadaf tells a story. The actual story which I related is a beautiful one which is why I related it and only a pervert can distort a beautiful story the way Sadaf has done.

    Shahin Sb has quickly added his corroboration. “Of course, I know that what you have pointed out is true and based on his own previous comments”!!!

    Let me put the record straight. I have not been in the employment of any non-Indian company nor had any non-Indian bosses ever. I have had foreign nationals reporting to me as I worked for an International company.

    Now you can see to what depths these people are capable of sinking just to take you down with them. They will sink by themselves only. 

    By Observer - 11/26/2013 11:17:27 PM
  • No, Naseer Sahe, the boys allegedly involvd in Patna blasts were not ideologues, but they were preachers and foot soldiers of Ahl-e-Hadees sect. This sect is based on the hate ideology of Ib-e-Taimiya on which other Wahhabi sects too are based. There is no indication that these boys were criminals as has Dawood Ibrahim been all his life.  It's because these boys who could very well be involved in doing good for society or at least themselves or their families, living ordinary, happy lives, ad they not been lured by ahl-e-Hadeesis into terrorism. Why don't you understand one simple thing: all present-day Islamist terrorists belong to one or the other Wahhabi sect or sub-sect? They have all undergone Wahhabi brainwashing either in schools or madrasas or terrorist training camps run by terrorist organizations.

    Patna or Ranchi boys worry me because this may be an indication of the storm to come. Do you want your country to become another Pakistan? Or Afghanistan? Many Bangladeshis are worried today, mulling over the same apprehension. Oh God, they say in the headlines of their articles, let not Bangladesh become another Pakistan or Afghanistan! Why do you an Indian Muslim not worry about the same possibility when you see storm clouds gathering, a few drops starting to fall? Don't you know that most victims of the Wahhabi violence are Muslims, be they Shia or Sufi or Brailwi or Ahmadi, and, of course, a few Christian and Hindu. So the first targets of Wahhabis are non-Wahhabi Muslims.

    These children, now youth, were not gangsters or criminals of any sort. They became terrorists because they were brainwashed into accepting this ideology of hate. How many more of our children re being brainwashed now, right under your nose. You know Taimites, consider Ibn-e-Taimiya the glory of Bihar. You live in Patna, You should be worried. Though the Champaran district of Bihar has the so-caled Taimiya University, the largest Taimi madrasa actually, all over India are new madrasas being built calling themselves proudly Salafi or Taimi. Not only Biharis like us, indeed all Indian Muslims should be worried. Our children are being snatched from us and being turned into bombs. Try to protect them. Fight this hate ideology How does it matter if some people go to Sufi shrines, show their respect, along with teir Hindu and Sikh brethren, bow down or as Wahhabis would say worship the graves. They are not disturbing world’s peace. Why should they be killed? Why should the shrines they rever be demolished? These people are not even responding to violence with counter-violence. Nowhere in the world are Sufis retaliating. Hundreds of Sufi shrines have been demolished in Africa in recent years by Wahhabi militant organisatin Boko Haram and the Like. But Sufis are behaving wth the patience and equanimity that Islam taught us all.

    By Sultan Shahin - 11/26/2013 11:04:19 PM
  • This debate is because Ghaus Sb said in this thread:
    "It is time to better think how to save India and Muslims from Wahhabism and the growing hardcore movement, Tableeghi Jamaat."
    My contention is simply this, that the Tablighi Jamat is a grass root level movement with a  history of 84 years and has remained apolitical all through its history.The fact that it eschews violent Jehad and is welcome by every non Muslim government in the World is confirmed by  a Sufi/Barelvi site which however find these as the gravest flaws of the movement!
    We have also discussed the criticism against the Jamat by reputed leaders of the community such as Javed Ghamdi and Ziauddin Sardar.
    After all this discussion, I find that no one has a single objective reason to oppose the Jamat. One could still dislike it for personal reasons. If people accept this the debate ends. How am I distracting anyone? If people have not been able to come up with a single objective reason to denounce the Jamat but only engage in sectarian rhetoric am I to blame?
    Accept that you hate the Jamat but have no objective reason to oppose it and the debate ends.
    You wont even allow me to go away peacefully. So I am back and don't blame me again for distracting everybody.
    If you think you have objective reasons to oppose the Jamat, list them down and I will respond after which let everyone draw their own conclusions and let us end this debate. By Observer - 11/26/2013 10:51:02 PM
  • Shahin Sb,

    Were the boys involved in Patna blasts Ahle Hadith ideologues for this website to come up with three articles and the transcript of your talk? Was their association with the sect greater than Dawood Ibrahim's?
    By Observer - 11/26/2013 10:19:47 PM
  • Shahin Sb,

    You have said the following:

    That Saudis are deploying talented people like you to infiltrate extraneous issues into the discussion, shows that probably they are getting desperate at the entire world understanding their game and condemning their attempt to colonise Muslim minds through organisations like Tablighi Jamaat.

    I assure you peaceful Islam will defeat you. Your petrodollars and American, Zionist support to Jihadism is not going to save Wahhabism.”

    Prove what you said or else it is slander bey definition and that makes you a slanderer.

    Earlier also you tried to drag in Ghulam Mohyiddin Sb on a matter that is closed between us. He presumed something and I proved that to be wrong and I have since treated his wrong presumption as a misunderstanding and not a deliberate lie. Stop trying to spread your mischief and trying to enlist support.

    By Observer - 11/26/2013 10:14:06 PM
  • Naseer Saheb, Thanks for the link giving an article by my former colleague and Pakistani counterpart with Asia Times Online late and martyred (in the cause of freedom of expression, killed by ISI) Syed Saleem Shahzad. I am quoting below some more portions from the report available on http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/EJ22Df07.html

    I don't see, however, how it established him as  a Sufi ideologue of the stature of Wahhabi imams like Ibn-e-Taimiya or MohammadIbn-e-Abdul Wahhab or even Syed Qutub or Maulana Abul Ala Maudoodi, as you present him as. It would be better if you quoted from some of his books on Islamic theology in which he must be advocating Jihad against non-Muslims in the manner Taimiya, Wahhab or Qutub and Maudodi do. In any case here is Shahzad on Dwood Ibrahim from your link:

    "While in Karachi, Dawood, known as David or Bhai (brother), earned a reputation in the city's underworld for his religious beliefs, passion, and his network was well known. 

    "In earlier days, religion was not a major issue for Dawood. But after moving to Karachi his interaction with members of the former Mumbai community (Memons, Kathiawaris, Gujratis and Kokanis) who had settled in the city before and after the partition of British India in 1947, introduced him to some business-cum-religious-cum-political figures, such as Haji Hanif Tayyab and Amin Pardesi. 

    "This entire circle, including Dawood, is Barelvi, a religious sect to which Muslims of the India-Pakistan region belong and which is diametrically different from the Wahhabi (Salafi) and Deobandi schools of thought that characterize religious militancy. The Barelvi school places emphasis on paying respect to tombs and shrines, and it believes that the bodies in shrines can bestow blessings on those who visit them. The Barelvi school does not deal much with the issues of vice and virtue, and jihad has never been a part of this sect. 

    "Conversely, the Wahhabi and Deobandi schools do not believe in shrines, indeed, they would like to see them all demolished, and they preach that only Allah can bestow blessings if one prays to him. They are also very strict on matters of vice and virtue, and jihad is one of the most emphasized chapters of their teachings. 

    "When Maulana Masood Azhar (founder of the banned militant Sunni Islamic group Jaish-i-Mohammed) was detained in India, somebody asked Dawood to use his contacts to have him released. Dawood's straight response was: "Impossible, he is a Deobandi." 

    "The Lashkar-i-Taiba, another militant group that is active in Jammu and Kashmir, is even more extremist compared to the Deobandis. It does not even accept clean-shaven people into its organization. Before any military training, members have to undertake a course lasting several months to ensure that the recruit is compatible with the set standards of vice and virtue. These facts could not be unknown to intelligence quarters, including the CIA.

    "And it was not as if Dawood made much effort to keep a low profile. Whether in Dubai or Karachi, he was courted by top South Asian cricketers for his cricket betting activities. Similarly, with regard to Bollywood, hardly a film could be produced in India without investment from Dawood. Dawood's guests were always lavishly entertained, and the best Scotch whiskies flowed, even in a dry country….

    "Dawood's underworld connects are extensive, and he "sublets" his name in Pakistan, Thailand, South Africa, Indonesia, Malaysia and the United Arab Emirates, among other countries, to "franchises" in the fields of drug trafficking and gambling dens. 

    "Dawood took a turn from his "normal" activities in the early 1990s when Bombay (as Mumbai was then known) was stricken with communal violence, with Muslims in particular badly victimized at the hands of Hindu extremists, culminating in the series of deadly blasts in 1993. Dawood is widely linked to these, and has been a wanted man in India ever since. 

    "At this time, one of his juniors, Chota Rajan, a Hindu, turned against Dawood, and was cultivated by India's Research and Analysis intelligence wing. In turn, Dawood became the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence's "Bombay connection". 

    "Chota Rajan has tried on several occasions to attack Dawood's interests in Bangkok and in Karachi, but only in the absence of Dawood as his presence anywhere reportedly still horrifies Rajan. Attacks earlier this year on the Kawish Crown Plaza in Karachi - a building owned by Dawood - were only made because there has been no trace of Dawood in the city for a long time. 

    "In the past two years, not a single member of D-Company, as Dawood's gang is known, has been caught in connection with any plot against the US. Had D-company been engaged in a terror campaign against the US it could have found many "soft bellies" in the Asia-Pacific region and in South Africa, where it is strong enough to carry out small-scale attacks, such as planting bombs or trafficking al-Qaeda members to carry out attacks. 

    "Dawood had three prominent operators in Karachi - Shoaib Khan, Ibrahaim Bholo and Shahanshah Khalid. Initially, all three worked well together, but in time they began to feud. Bholo was kidnapped and killed, according to some reports by Shoaib Khan over differences over a drug deal in South Africa. Khalid and Khan continue their gang warfare. 

    "Khan's political leanings are well known - he worked as a mercenary killer for the Muttahida Quami Movement, an ethnocentric party whose leader has been in exile in London for a decade, as well as for the People's Students Federation, a wing of the Pakistani People's Party (PPP) led by former premier Benazir Bhutto. Khalid is also a member of the PPP and contested last October's general election on its ticket. Like his "associates", Dawood has not been linked to any jihad or extremist political organization. 

    "There are many other big mafia gangs in Thailand, Hong Kong and South Africa, and compared to them, D-Company is nothing. Yet now Dawood is portrayed by US authorities as a terror ring leader under Pakistan's protection. 

    "No doubt India is delighted, but as a shot in the "war on terror", this one seems wide of the mark.” 
    By Sultan Shahin - 11/26/2013 9:51:15 PM
  • But Mr. Naseer Ahmed, If, as you point out, Mafia Don Dawood " Ibrahim has been helping finance increasing attacks in Gujarat by LeT," (Lashkar-e-Tayyeba), which, of course, is a Wahhabi organization, how does he become a Sufi ideologue?

    Then, in any case, Dawood Ibrahim being a representative of Sufi-Bareilwi community is a preposterous idea that even normal Wahhabis do not entertain. Do you know of any other Wahhabi crazy enough to present Sufism as an ideology of terror because one of the visitors of a Sufi shrine happens to be a Mafia Don? Has any one heard anything more ridiculous than that?

    You have called me a liar. But you haven't told me what did I lie about. I don't mind these abuses from you, however, because if someone can slander and abuse some one as senior and balanced as Ghulam Mohiyuddin Saheb, then he can do anything. In any case you have done this before with me and others. You will see now why I need to use your real name. How else will readers find out what did you call GM Saheb? How else would readers also find out the truth of what Mr. Sadaf wrote about you, based on your tales of indebtedness to Saudi friends or masters, whatever they were?

    It must be a suitable subject for a psychiatric study what circumstances can make someone so blind and crazy with hate for his father's religion as to go to this extraordinary length merely to prove that not just a small section of his religious community but the entire Islamic community is terrorist and the religion itself is synonymous with terror. Both you and Mohammad Younus Rational Saheb deserve such a study and if possible help.

    Howver, I would still like you simply to not use threads about Wahhabism to engage in Sufi/Baailei-bashism. You can very well write an article about the trend of Takfirism in Islam, started by Kharjites, followed by Ibn-e-Taimiya and Abdul Wahhab (both violent) then also Ahmed Reza Khan (whose followers are non-violent). In this thread he can engage in Barailvi-bashism, which is not a priority issue for us as they are not violent and do not engage in terrorism, but after all we moderates on this forum are against all takfiri practices, even if non-violent. 

    However, you should not be using this anti-Sufism of yours as a diversionary tactic to keep us from discussing terrorist ideologies and refuting them.  

    By Sultan Shahin - 11/26/2013 9:22:31 PM
  • THE TRUE COLOURS OF TABLIGH JAMAT

     

    January 18, 2010 by mthago

     

    Tabligh Jamat is an Islamic movement that has portrayed itself throughout the whole world as a dakwah movement. The movements originated from India in the early nineteen centuries. It has portrayed itself as a very noble job and they claim that the work done by Tabligh Jamat is very similar to the works of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w and their companions. It also portrayed itself as a work that inculcates the spirit of sacrifice among Muslims similar to what Prophets Muhammad s.a.w and his companions used to do. Are all the claims that Tabligh Jamat made are true .Is Tabligh Jamat truly a dakwah movements. Is Tabligh Jamat similar to the work of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w or is similar to other ‘tarikat’ movements. I have been involved with the work of Tabligh Jamat more than thirty years. Since the Jemaah portrayed itself as doing the work of dakwah, I become interested and decided to join the group although at that time I was only a student. What surprised me Tabligh Jamat does not give dakwah to non-Muslim? They argue with me saying that the present day Muslims cannot do dakwah to non-Muslims because Muslims are not practicing Islam. They said to me that we have to correct the Muslims first then only we can give dakwah to the non-Muslims. At that time, I was young and immature so I heard and I obeyed.

     

    Whatever they said to me always remain in my mind. While I was involving with the work of Tabligh Jamat, I was always thinking and hoping that one day the work of dakwah to the non-Muslim will start. Although I am always eager to do the work of dakwah to the non-Muslim, yet I do not know how to do it. When I look at the Muslims involved with work  of Tabligh Jamat I have very slightest hope that the work of dakwah to the non-Muslims will ever starts .I was worried and I always pray to Allah to teach me how to do the work of dakwah to the non-Muslims as Prophets Muhammad s.a.w used to do. With the blessing of Allah, my prayer was granted and to cut short the story, the work of dakwah to the non-Muslims starts in my locality in early February 2008. Now when I do the work of visiting the peoples to call them to Allah I will visit everyone including the non-Muslims. Now I will not miss any house as I used to do. When I met Muslims I will remind them about the meaning of the great words and about the orders of Allah, I will ask him to do the work of dakwah, and to perform five times daily solat with congregation in the mosque. When I met with non-Muslims, I will invite them to enter Islam and to recites the great words. In case there are no opportunities to give dakwah with words then I will make prayer and ask Allah to give guidance to them.

     

    When the elders of Tabligh Jamat in India know that I am also giving dakwah to non-Muslims and teaching others to do dakwah to non-Muslim, they start to take action to stop me from spreading the teaching to others. As I was one of the Syura of Malaysia, they withdraw my right to make any decisions and they prevent me from making any lectures in any meetings of Tabligh Jamat all over Malaysia. The decisions made by the elders of Tabligh Jamat clearly indicates that Tabligh Jamat do not want to do dakwah to the non-Muslims. Tabligh Jamat is only interested to invite the Muslims to join their movements. Therefore, I conclude that Tabligh Jamat is not a dakwah movement as they portrayed themselves to be but Tabligh Jamat is only one of the many ‘tarikat’ groups. The reasons that they gave to me thirty years ago for not doing the work of dakwah to non-Muslims was only an excuse not to do the work of dakwah.

     

    The Tabligh Jamat is using reasons created in their minds and using logics not in accordance with Quran and Hadis so that the Muslims should not do the work of dakwah to the non-Muslims. Some of the members of Tabligh Jamat argued to me that avoiding the work of dakwah to non-Muslims is the ‘hikmah’ of their elders. Allah knows hikmah and no one knows hikmah except Allah and Allah teaches hikmah to the Prophets Muhammad s.a.w. When Muslims do exactly like Prophets Muhammad s.a.w did then  Muslims have hikmah and when Muslims are not doing like the Prophet Muhammad s.a.w did then Muslims are making fitnah. When Muslims do not do dakwah to the non-Muslims like Prophet Muhammad s.a.w did then Muslims are making fitnah and the so call scholars that stop the Muslims from doing the work of dakwah to the non-Muslims are actually spreading fitnah.When the Muslims stop the work of dakwah to the non-Muslims Allah is not pleased with the Muslims and Allah put the Muslims in so many fitnah.

     

    I conclude that Tabligh Jamat is not a dakwah movement as they claimed themselves to be. Tabligh Jamat is only one of the many tarikat groups and like all other tarikat group; they are usually very fond of admiring their elders instead of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. When they give lectures, they often quote the words of their elders instead of Quran and Hadis. When any Tabligh Jamat visit a Muslim, instead of asking the person to obey the commandments of Allah, that is to do the work of dakwah and to perform five times daily solat with congregation they are more interested to ask the person to join their group by participating to what they call as going in the path of Allah for three or forty days or four months. At the end of any lectures that they make they will also ask the audience to join their groups by participating in the so call going in the path of Allah for three or forty days and four months. They are only interested in the number of persons that can join their tarikat group and they are not interested in establishing the orders of Allah. Although more than ninety years Tabligh Jamat is in existence yet the first order of Allah that is to give dakwah to the non-Muslims, to deliver the great words to them is still not established.

     

    When Sheikh Muhammad Ilyas started the work, the work has no name and at that time, it is commonly known as the work of calling peoples towards kalimah and solat. At those times, it was a true work of dakwah and Sheikh Muhammad Ilyas used to visit the people in their houses and their fields to invite them to recite the kalimah or the great words and to ask them to perform five times daily solat. After the demise of Sheikh Muhammad Ilyas the work has been mutilated by his deciples who modified the noble work to becomes a tarikat group by the names Tabligh Jamat. Their elders instead of doing the work of visiting the peoples in their homes and fields to invite them to recite the kalimah and to performs solat are only interested to give long and exhausting lectures. Therefore, I conclude that the present Tabligh Jamat is not the group that does the work of dakwah or tabligh and neither it is the group that do the work of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w, as the Tabligh Jamat claim to be. It is only one of the tarikat group developed by the Muslims in India and instead of calling it by the name of Tabligh Jamat, it should be better known as ‘IndiansTarikat Group’.

     

    Dr.Nasoha Saabin
    January 2010
    Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

     

    http://mthago.com/2010/01/18/the-true-colours-of-tabligh-jamat/

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/26/2013 9:15:32 PM
  • Shahin Sb you are a liar and slanderer. I oppose only your sectarianism which shows when you do not lose a single opportunity to blame the Wahabi/Deobandi/ Ahle Hadith sects each time.

    The fact that you paint all non Barelvi sects with the same brush should be clear to everyone when you accused the Tablighi Jamat of being a follower of Wahab which is a lie and your lie has been nailed. This alone shows your vicious character of stereotyping all non Barlvis.

    You now have two hounds to bark for you. You need them besides your own talent to launch a personal attack. If this was only a war of ideas, you would not have felt the need to use my name.

    By Observer - 11/26/2013 8:05:57 PM
  • Shahin Sb,

    Dawood is not just another shrine visiting Indian. India's foremost enemy Dawood is a typical Deobandi hating Barelvi. 

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/EJ22Df07.html

    While in Karachi, Dawood, known as David or Bhai (brother), earned a reputation in the city's underworld for his religious beliefs, passion, and his network was well known. 

    In earlier days, religion was not a major issue for Dawood. But after moving to Karachi his interaction with members of the former Mumbai community (Memons, Kathiawaris, Gujratis and Kokanis)who had settled in the city before and after the partition of British India in 1947, introduced him to some business-cum-religious-cum-political figures, such as Haji Hanif Tayyab and Amin Pardesi. This entire circle, including Dawood, is Barelvi.

    When Maulana Masood Azhar (founder of the banned militant Sunni Islamic group Jaish-i-Mohammed) was detained in India, somebody asked Dawood to use his contacts to have him released. Dawood's straight response was: "Impossible, he is a Deobandi." 

    "Ibrahim's syndicate has consistently aimed to destabilize the Indian government through inciting riots, acts of terrorism and civil disobedience. He is currently wanted by India for the March 12, 1993 Bombay Exchange bombings, which killed hundreds of Indians and injured over a thousand more. Information, from as recent as Fall 2002, indicates that Ibrahim has financially supported Islamic militant groups working against India, such as Lashkar-e-Tayyiba [LeT]. For example, this information indicates that Ibrahim has been helping finance increasing attacks in Gujarat by LeT. 

    Also read the book "TALIBANISATION OF PAKISTAN From 9/11 To 26/11 and Beyond" By Amir Ali  which contains more details about his other Barelvi associates. 
    Or "South Asia: The Spectre of Terrorism"  edited by P. R. Kumaraswamy, Ian Copland which also discusses Dawood's  pronounced Barelvi leanings.

    By Observer - 11/26/2013 7:54:06 PM
  • Mr Lodhia, the scavenger that you are, you can be expected to unload truckloads of garbage. I ignored your garbage the first time also but responded when you insisted on a response and made clear why I did not wish to engage with you further.

    A massive and very successful movement such as the Tablighi Jamat will have a large number of people, who are to the right of the center who will be be opposed to it and will attack it with innuendo. You will find plenty of innuendo but nothing that sticks. Why do I have to tell you this if you had the good sense  to know this yourself? And why should I waste my time on you any further?

    The Indian intelligence agencies also keep a tab on it activities as they do for any other similar organization and the proof of its clean chit is that the TJ was the only Jamat/Sangh that was not banned during the emergency years.

    The fact that the "modern" Muslim' is uncomfortable with his Muslim identity makes him very apprehensive about the Jamat. Their dislike for the Jamat is understandable but  likes or dislikes are personal whims.

    For any person who is following the debate, it should be apparent  that no person has been able to put forth an objective reason for opposing the Tablighi Jamat and as a matter of fact no country in the world has found an objective reason to curb the activities of the Jamat.

    The vicious attack on the Jmat has now turned into a personal attack simply because you have lost the debate. The opposition is simply the Barelvi opposition to what is known as a Deobandi Jamat.

    Neither Shahin Sb nor others will respond to the certificate given by the Sufi/Barelvi website Noore Madinah which criticises the Jamat for eschewing violent Jehad and for not having anything in its programme that inconveniences a "kafir" government. While it is the ultimate endorsement by a hostile sect, it also reveals mindset of the Sufi/Barelvi

    By Observer - 11/26/2013 7:50:52 PM
  • Dear Sadaf Sahab, Let us not be so harsh. Let us not forget that for all his faults he is also a scholar. He has studied Quran in great depth. Md Yunus Saheb is very appreciative of his erudition. Of course, the lengths to which he goes to see that Wahhabism is not blamed for the extremism and terrorism of today is extraordinary and to me inexplicable. But let us stay balanced. Of course, I know that what you have pointed out is true and based on his own previous comments. 
    But I would like him simply to not use threads about Wahhabism to engage in Sufi/Baailei-bashism. 
    He can very well write an article about the trend of Takfirism in Islam, startd by Kharjitrs, followed by Ibn-e-Taimiya and Abdul Wahhab (both violent) then also Ahmed Reza Khan (whose followers are non-violent). In this thread he can engage in Barailvi-bashism, which is not a priority issue for us as they are not violent and do not engage in terrorism, but after all we both and other moderates on this forum are against all takfiri practics, even if non-violent. 
    However, Naseer Saheb should not be using this as a diversionary tactic to keep us from discussing terrorist ideologies and refuting them. 
    By Sultan Shahin - 11/26/2013 6:20:17 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    My Fellow Muslims,

     

    We the “Moderate Muslims” should unanimously label those Muslims who constantly attack moderate viewpoints as “Certified Muslim Bashers.There is no need to use any harsh or any foul language. It will be even better if we all can muster enough courage to  post it on the blog or websites so that our fellow Muslims are duly informed.  

     

    I say, let the Muslims be aware of those whose sole aim is to keep disrupting the balanced viewpoints of the “Moderate Muslims. It is these educated Muslims with all of their evil intentions do more harm to the great religion of Islam, let alone the “Certified Muslim Haters, like Robert Spencer and Pamella Geller. It is quite obvious that somewhere in their own background, they have been trained to “Hate” any Muslim who promotes moderate views. Of course, they have their own sweet little hidden agendas, and that is the reason why they get involved in the discourse on the internet forum with hidden identities.     

     

    There is after all, a truth in the statement by Sadaf, “I wonder why such a coward, even wanted to enter an argument where from eventually he would run away appealing others also to do so?” Kindly read Naseer Ahmed’s viscous comments about this humble Muslim.

    It as follows:

     

    “Your post on the "ultimate truth" is the "ultimate shit" and shows you to be the "ultimate scavenger". Can you not even choose a proper source? What credibility does your source carry and if the charges are as serious as what the blog makes them out to be, what corroboration do you find from credible sources? Your source is an unknown and anonymous blogger whose other blog is the usual Barelvi rant against the Wahabis. The choice of your source to pick up a blog written in such poor taste and making such outlandish allegations is a reflection on your own character, the depths to which you can descend, and your proclivity for believing in any trash if it supports your prejudices. A person such as you is not worth having a discussion with.”

     

    What a shame? The so-called “Tabligh Jamaat” devotee cannot even reply to all the articles about his beloved Islamic organization which I posted yesterday. After all, let the readers on this forum be fully aware of who the “Ultimate Scavenger” was?

     

    Thank you, Sadaf for pitching in to clear the air. Thank you, Sultan Sahin Saheb to reveal the true identity of the mischief maker, or should we all say a “Certified Muslim Basher.   

     

    Thanks again for reading, I remain – Very respectfully yours – rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/26/2013 12:54:26 PM
  • I wonder why such a coward, even wanted to enter an argument where from eventually he would run away appealing others also to do so? He is not just sectarian, he has sold his integrity for few gold coins he was thrown at during his stint in Middle East. I am sorry to say all these harsh words. But truth is a bitter pill.

    As I have maintained, I do not bow on graves. But then I have never bowed to to pick those thrown gold coins unlike he did. I know this because he had once admitted that he did. It is all on the pages of New Age Islam. But then he thought there was nothing wrong in doing that. He just wanted to tell how magnanimous his bosses in Middle East were. He calls me HMV- His Masters Voice, as if I am a dog, and he alleges that am a dog of Mr. Sultan Shahin. But let me put it this way, at least I have barked on Mr. Sultan Shahin too on several occassions. Barked or roared, depends on who understand the language of barking an who understands the language of roaring, but for sure this man about whom I am talking is a dog with all characteristics of a dog. He is a dog of his ex-bosses from Arab and a dog who still wags his tail at the memory of those gold coins thrown at him. 
    By sadaf - 11/26/2013 11:58:35 AM
  • To Editor: Sultan Shahin – New Age Islam

     

    You wrote, “With your correct name, we can relate to your past comments.” That’s exactly what I did Sultan Saheb. I searched on New Age Islam and I found out all about Honorable Naseer Ahmed Saheb.

     

    Now you will realize the dire importance of revealing the identity of those commentators who are only focused on disrupting a meaning dialogue.

     

    Very sincerely yours, rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/26/2013 11:11:42 AM
  • Mr. Naseer Ahmed, anynymity is anonymity when it works. With your correct name, we can relate to your past comments. It is important that we do when you are repeating the same old ones. 
    Who but you would make ridiculous propositions like Sufism being responsible for terrorism because Mafia Don Dawood Ibrahim visits Sufi shrines. No one in the world peddles such nonsense in defence of Wahhabism. And, the fact that Wahhabism is an ideology of hate and creates enmity among Muslims as well among different religious communities is not a discovery made by New Age Islam. It is common knowledge. Books of Wahhabi imams and ideologues are available not just in librararies but even online. Anyone can reach them. Then the ideological affiliation of Islamist terrorists with Wahhabism is also a known fact. 
    We have nothing against Saudi or Wahhabi people, many of whom do not know themselves what their purported ideology is all about. Most of us suffer from this identification with an inherited religion and sect. 
    But if we have to fight terrorism ideologically, we have to call this ideology by the name with which it is known. Since this happens to be Wahhabism, we call it Wahhabism, as the whole world does. This is not a New Age Islam invention or discovery.
    Somehow, your friends recognised you almost immediately. I merely thought of you as an admirer of Maulana Waheeduddin Khan whom I also admire. In any case I concern myself with the message and not identities. But with Dawood Ibrahim being presented again as as a Sufi ideologue and representative of Sufism, I was left with no option. I not only had to recognise you but express my agreement with your friends. 
    Now if you want to denounce only Barailwi Takfirism, which being non-violent is not a priority issue with us, I can suggest a way out. Please write an article on the subject and thus we start a new thread. I am against all Takfirism. We should try and close down all Takfiri factories, violent or non-violent. Opposing terrorism and violence and promoting peace will remain a priority issue with us, but I recognise that all Takfirism is evil and should be opposed. 
    you will find many articles on the site expressing such sentiments.

    ... As a community we are more reactionary and obscurantist that positive and progressive. We live in fear and denial. There is nothing wrong with us; it’s all Jewish conspiracy, Hindu conspiracy, Western imperialist conspiracy, etc. etc. We love living in the past, in the land of pointlessness. So our discussions too are not so much about issues of today as about the bygone past. We revel in discussing ad infinitum the dirty politics of seventh century Arabia and taking sides with one or the other party. We have no present and no plans for the future. As a community, that is. Some individuals, of course, do have plans for themselves as well as for the community and a vision of regeneration for Islam and the Muslim community. But they are reviled for thinking of this word rather than the other world where 72 houris are waiting for them impatiently in a land of milk and honey and of course, plenty of liquor. (In the case of poor women, of course, only their husbands, if any, would be waiting there, and yet some of them become suicide bombers, for some reason.) --Sultan Shahin, Editor, New Age Islam


    http://www.newageislam.com/ijtihad,-rethinking-islam/demolish-kafir/-mushrik/-munafiq-manufacturing-factories,-says-sultan-shahin,-defending-new-age-islam-against-talibani-onslaught/d/1143

    Let us resolve to keep helping Muslims in the New Year mapping an agenda for Islam in the Twenty-first century – the task New Age Islam has set before itself.

    Islam is of course, a universal Deen, for all people in every corner of the world and for all times to come; but in order to fulfil its destiny it has to keep reinventing itself in every new age; it has to be rethought and reinterpreted in the light of the orthodox Islamic principles of Ijtihad, the gates of which were opened for us by Allah and the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and no Muslim has the right to close them down.

    The pace of change has accelerated so much in the last decades that our very way of life has become quite distinct even from the recent past. How does the Islamic way of life mesh into and cope with the demands of the New Age is the major challenge before us Muslims, that too at a time when we have not only vast numbers of Muslim societies in nearly all parts of the world varying from one another in our social norms and customs, but also a vast number of interpretations of Islam resulting in deep sectarian divisions. While for enemies of Islam in the extortionist and exploitative sections of human society Islam is one religion and Muslims are one religious community the world over, for Muslims themselves there are scores of Islams and scores of Muslim communities, nearly all baying for each others’ blood. We apparently need to reboot Islam in our systems.

    Let us at least resolve that in the New Year 2009 we will at least find the lowest common denominator or the greatest common divisor for what should have been the simplest of questions and has become a very complicated one: who is a Muslim? Let us also resolve to work in the New Year towards closing down all the Kafir-and-Mushrik-manufacturing factories that are flourishing so much in our midst. There are so many things to be done; but let us start at the easiest first step. -- Sultan Shahin, editor, New Age Islam
    http://www.newageislam.com/ijtihad,-rethinking-islam/rebooting-islam--let-us-at-least-resolve-the-issue---who-is-a-muslim?/d/1085
    Beware of the Kafir-manufacturing factories: Maulana Nadeem-ul-Wajidi responds to the Fatawahs of Kufr against Dr. Zakir Naik

    A number of Fatawahs have been issued against Dr. Zakir Naik. The Muftees of Deoband had said that he should not be trusted but the Barailwees have crossed all limits. They have asserted that he should be dealt like an infidel "Kafir" and should be excluded from the Muslim community. This was stated by a Barailwee Mufti of Lucknow and it has not been opposed by any of the learned persons of Barailwee thought. The concerned Mufti has demanded from the government to put a ban on the PEACE channel of Dr. Zakir Naik and the fund he is raising should be examined but there is no mention of the wrong beliefs on which basis this Fatwah is issued. Of course it said that he is provoking the young Muslims for terrorism and he favours Osama bin Laden. The question is not whether he is doing this or not. The question is: even if the two charges are authentic or even if any of the two allegations is correct, should he be excluded or banished from Islam or not? If it is correct that Dr. Zakir Naik supports terrorism, the law should take its course but it is not for the Muftiyan to deliver judgments….Such deviated people should try to ponder over their thinking and the ways of dealing with such critical matters. The difference of opinion in the interpretation of spiritual Islamic matters is quite possible but such differences should be sorted out by perfect spiritual and factual reasons and Islamic knowledge in the light of the Quran Kareem and Hadees Shareef, not by denouncing and giving decrees of infidelity (Kufr, Shirk and Fajoor).

    NewAgeIslam.com presents Maulana Nadeem-ul-Wajidi’s impassioned plea for Muslims to behave with sense.  Translated from Urdu by Raihan Nezami, NewAgeIslam.com


    http://www.newageislam.com/the-war-within-islam/beware-of-the-kafir-manufacturing-factories--maulana-nadeem-ul-wajidi-responds-to-the-fatawahs-of-kufr-against-dr-zakir-naik/d/1049
    By Sultan Shahin - 11/26/2013 10:44:11 AM
  • To Editor: Sultan Shahin – New Age Islam

     

    It was indeed a pleasure to read “Moderate’s” judicious verdict. “Observer” simply ran away and was not able to answer any of my rebuttals. Muslims like him think “One-Sided” only and refuse to read anything that point out the flaws of the Islamic organizations which they believe in. Your readers have now witnessed two people thoroughly “Brainwashed. Naseer Saheb now will stop posting and that leaves “Rational,” who I am afraid is in a very confused state of mind. Strange as it may seem, both these gentlemen simply cannot answer any of my rebuttals.

     

    In future, you should post those comments of folks who reveal their true identity. This platform of yours is strictly to rekindle the true spirit of Islamic message. I say, “Moderate Muslims” voices should be given more importance. I can appreciate person like “Hats Off”

    making a constructive criticism. Of course, it should be welcomed, but what I have noticed

    is that even such person will always side with those who are hell-bent to portray a wrong image of Islam. In other words, you have a tough task ahead of you, yet you need to do your very best to maintain a proper balance during the debates.  

     

    Keep up the good work, Sultan Saheb.

     

    Your ardent admirer, Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia       

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/26/2013 8:35:35 AM
  • mr Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/25/2013 10:26:38 PM
    keep your true understanding of the jumbled Quran with you. at least i don't need it.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/26/2013 1:50:01 AM
  • @observer/ naseer sb
    What a sheer ignorance of the present and past!
    every fatal and barbaric acts are being done by none other than the followers of Wahhabi, and you, despite reforming your community, are in quest for attacking barelvis who do not belong to Alqaeda teams, Talibani teams, Ikhwanul Muslemeen teams, Indian Mujahedeen network, Jaishe Muhammad team, and Jamete Islami team.
    Readers/commentators/intellectuals themselves can decide how to make mr naseer understand the staunch follower of Wahhabis, the supporter of Talibanis/ Jihadists as his writings prove him to be. By Moderate - 11/26/2013 12:45:33 AM
  • @observer/ naseer sb
    What a sheer ignorance of the present and past!
    every fatal and barbaric acts are being done by none other than the followers of Wahhabi, and you, despite reforming your community, are in quest for attacking barelvis who do not belong to Alqaeda teams, Talibani teams, Ikhwanul Muslemeen teams, Indian Mujahedeen network, Jaishe Muhammad team, and Jamete Islami team.
    Readers/commentators/intellectuals themselves can decide how to make mr naseer understand the staunch follower of Wahhabis, the supporter of Talibanis/ Jihadists as his writings prove him to be. 
    By Moderate - 11/26/2013 12:45:16 AM
  • You can see that the editor has no morals at all. Inspite of my desire to maintain anonymity, he now insists on addressing me by name. It is easy to understand why. Having been routed in the debate, he has again resorted to a massive and vituperative personal assault like he did last time.
    Did you notice how he clutched the straws offered by Sadaf? Shahin's attacks are not against specific acts of violence or specific militant groups such as the Taliban or Al Qaeda but against the non Barelvi sects which he always names to gether as Wahabi, Ahle Hadith, Deobandi.
    The attack with innuendo, lies and slander against the peaceful Tablighi Jamat is the ultimate proof.
    His personal attack using my name is to ensure that I stay away from the site. That is a tactic that he knows will work as it did in the past.
    This is my last post.
    Mr Muhammad Yunus and other moderates, this is the time for you to speak up and make up your minds about associating with a site which just cannot represent the moderate Muslim. There is nothing moderate about a sectarian nor can he ever be.
    Who is a subhuman? The Taliban and those of their ilk who kill innocents are sub human. Also people like Sultan Shahin who stereotype all non Barelvi as Wahabi and violent Talfiris are no less sub. The difference between the Taliban and Sulatn Shain is that he lacks guns and immunity from the consequences of physical violence. He therfore satisfies himself with the violence of words and spreading sectarian hate. His poison is no less lethal.
    Rational, you often asked what is the end result of the debate. You can see as to how and why this debate ends the way it does. You can see that Sultan Shahin and his team were thoroughly routed in the debate and the course that they have now taken. The debate was not because they genuinely believed what they said. The debate was simply because they will always malign any sect that is not Barelvi and a debate cannot change that. After being cornered in the debate about the Tablighi Jamat after which the only honest response should have been to acknowledge that they have no objective reason to malign the Jamat, they now make out that the debate is a distraction!
    By Observer - 11/26/2013 12:23:41 AM
  • To All RespectedReaders on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    The Desi Jihad

     

    What is the composition of these groups? Following the 2002 Gujarat riots, some of the more radical elements in the Deoband-Tablighi Jamaat and Ahle Hadis tanzeems in Gujarat vowed vengeance.

     

    As many as two dozen students, most of them, of course, Kashmiris who were studying in Deobandi madrasas in south Gujarat, fled the madrasas for arms and explosives training in Pakistan soon after the riots.

     

    Ahmedabad blasts are a result of big intelligence lapse on the part of the state police since a large number of locals are believed to be involved.

     

    Twelve of these were students of the Deobandi madrasa at Kantharia near Bharuch called Darul Uloom Arabiyyah Islamiyyah. (These madrasas have now stopped enrolling Kashmiri students following police pressure). It is possible that the blasts were the work of these new recruits.

     

    Significantly, one of the most notorious commanders of HUJI and leader of its Auragabad module, Javed Kashmiri, who is eluding Maharashtra Police, had his religious education in a similar madrasa near Bharuch.

     

    The 101-year-old Deobandi madrasa at Dabhel near Surat, which is the oldest Deobandi madrasa in Gujarat, has also been accused of spreading radicalism. At least two maulvis charged with terrorist acts have studied in Dabhel.

     

    In Gujarat, almost all those arrested in relation to terror acts following the post-Godhra riots, including the infamous Akshardham attack and the lesser known bus bomb blasts in 2002 in which 13 people were injured, were Deobandis.

     

    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/The+desi+jihad/1/12342.html

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/25/2013 10:56:11 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

    FBI monitors Islamic group for terror ties

    I know that law enforcement officials have been looking closely at Tablighi Jamaat for several years, but very little has come out about them. Here is an MSNBC story, . Of course, the analysis is essentially ignorant, since a "peaceful Islamic movement" that preaches a return to "fundamental Islamic values" will not find itself remaining peaceful for long, given the deep roots of the jihad ideology within Islam. Still, the article contains some important information:

    The FBI and the Pentagon are keeping a close eye on an Islamic missionary group with thousands of U.S. members. In a secret intelligence document obtained by NBC News, terrorism analysts say members of the evangelical movement are ideal recruits for terrorist organizations inside the United States.

    On Dec. 13, in Queens, New York, members of a conservative Islamic missionary group known as Tablighi Jamaat brought sleeping bags to their mosque to spend the night discussing religion.

    Now, NBC News has obtained a secret government memo which says U.S. anti-terror officials believe radical extremists have been infiltrating this otherwise peaceful Islamic movement and are using Tablighi's U.S. organization "as cover... to network with other extremists in the U.S."

    "If al-Qaida needed a fresh set of bodies in order to pull an operation, one of the places that they would go to for that fresh set of bodies would be Tablighi Jamaat, whether it's in the United States or not," says former FBI agent Steve Denny, who has investigated members of Tablighi.

    Tablighi preaches a return to fundamental Islamic values and has major mosques in at least 10 states, with as many as 50,000 U.S. members.

    Recent pilgrimages in Bangladesh and Pakistan attracted millions. Experts say they were fertile ground for al-Qaida recruiters.

    The memo, written in April by the Defense Intelligence Agency, claims some Tablighi members in the U.S. "have the capability to conduct a terrorist attack in the U.S.," though there's no evidence of planning.

    The document also says seven Tablighi leaders in the U.S. are under investigation and claims a Tablighi official at a major Midwestern mosque "has associations with several al-Qaida supporters" and may be recruiting "converts for nefarious purposes."

    The imam in Queens says the FBI questioned him. He insists that radicals who espouse violence aren't even allowed at his mosque.

    "We stop them," says Imam Zia Hafez Paracha. "We don't even let them come."...

    Tablighi does not endorse terrorism, but investigators allege some known militants have Tablighi ties:

    So-called American Taliban John Walker Lindh was radicalized at a Tablighi-affiliated mosque in California.

    Iyman Faris, who plotted to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge, posed as a Tablighi missionary to get into the U.S.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/01/fbi-monitors-islamic-group-for-terror-ties.html By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/25/2013 10:43:41 PM
  • Mr. Rational Pseudo,

    You wrote, “I have many other reasons to have it.” Can you name all the reasons for you to continue to carry on with “Mohammed” as your good name? I bet your answers will further reveal what is in your mind?

     Thus far, I have learned quite a bit about your anger with the religion of Islam. Knowing your background of being one of the “Tablighis, I can understand the way you think now.

     The bottom line is tha you got a bad training which has totally jumbled up your mind. I know of many young Memon men who are simply lost in the wilderness and cannot cope up with their lives. That is exactly what happens when one follows sects and ignores the commandments of Holy Quran.

     Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/25/2013 10:26:38 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Mr. Observer wrote: A Tabligh also has a religious identity besides national and language and all other identities. They wear their national dress, speak their own language and the religious identity come from beard and head covering.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s response: Does Mr. Observer knows that the Chinese, Mongolians, Siberians nor those living in the Eskimo land cannot grow beard?

     

    Mr. Observer wrote: Creating an identity does mean the people are intolerant about others. A Rotarian is not intolerant of a Lion but a Rotarian will attend a Rotary club and a Lion his own club and each will wear the badge of their club.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s response: Creating any sort of identity with strict dress codes, beards, hijabs and following another book instead of Holy Quran should classify that particular religious organization to belong to what we call in the civilized world, as a “Cult.

     

    Mr. Observer wrote: Creating a distinctive identity in the commercial world is about creating a brand on which firms spend enormous amounts. Cadburys is a brand that has become synonymous with chocolates, Apple with electronics, etc, etc.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s response: Bonvita and iPhone are branded products sold to all humankind. It does not have a religious tag, period.

     

    Mr. Observer wrote: Identity, branding etc play a very important, useful and positive role. I have not seen anyone decry identity and separateness so much as the educated and modern Muslims who are so embarrassed by their Muslim identity, that they would like to lose it completely.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s response: Muslims are not embarrassed by Muslims’ identities. They are most definitely embarrassed by their repulsive character, especially, of those who dress like Holy Men and does his “Tablighi” works without caring for their sick parents or their pregnant wives.

     

    Mr. Observer wrote: The positive approach would be to improve the branding and image of our religion rather than lose our identity from shame.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s response: Improving the image of Islam means to get out of the “Ghetto Thinking.” In other words, the mindset which applauds and endorses all the immoral acts and encourages criminal worshipping must be permanently shunned. “Tabligh Jamaat” is now under the radar of the U.S. Government agencies. Only because of Muslims like Mr. Observer, the future generation of Muslim youths are going to confront an uphill battle in their lives. Mr. Observer is merely speeding up the process by not taking into account the ground reality.

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/25/2013 10:05:17 PM
  • Mr. Observer, you wrote as follows:   

     

    “The genuine moderates on this site may please note that this is not a site of the moderate Muslim but of the Barelvis who have proven that they are anything but moderate.”

     

    Listen up. Kindly let Sultan Shahin Saheb do his work. All you and Rational Pseudo are  doing is continue to throw “Monkey Wrench” to disrupt the debate.

     

    Rational Pseuda got problems with Islam even though he loves to continue to carry on with his name “Mohammed” which he claims has been given by his beloved Nani. You on the other hand, are relentless is trying to push your point of view and continue to keep on defending the deeds of “Tabligh Jamaat.”

     

    Sultan Shahin is trying hard to gather enough like-minded “Moderate Muslims” on this platform, but it seems like few on this forum are hell-bent on making it hard to have any

    sort of intelligent debates and/or rebuttals.

     

    By the way, are you literally trying to convert everyone into “Tablighis.” What is your beef,

    Mr. Observer? You know that will not happen, or should I say, do not even try. You know why? I belong to Memon community who are mostly orthodox. I have seen how “Tablighis”  simply walk away on his so-called missionary work leaving behind sick parents, pregnant wives and what not? That also for more than four months with no news at all. If you want to promote such a behavior and see wisdom in this very act, then please go about and around and preach to other Muslims.

     

    “Educated Muslims” are not going to be part of this uncivilized type of human behavior. Are you reading this comment, Mr. Observer? I have had first-hand experience and I know the metal trauma which the family members have to suffer. Hence, spare me your lecture as I have no patience at all for all the pep talks about your beloved “Tabligh Jamaat.”

     

    Again, it is highly likely that you might find this message rude, so be it, Mr. Observer. You should learn to respect others’ viewpoint. As far as I am concerned, I have always stayed ten foot away from the “Tablighis.” I just do not want any bearded Maulvis with kurta and pyjama to come and teach me about Islam. Holy Quran is enough for me. I could care less about any sects.

     

    By the way, did you notice that I have not addressed you with “As-Salaam Alay-Kum.” You got issues with that too. Small wonder that you fiercely promote “Tabligh Jamaat.” What

    can one expect from a bunch of uneducated brutes?

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia              

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/25/2013 9:17:48 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Recruiters for Jihad-Meet the Tablighi Jamaat--right here in the U.S.A.

     

    THE INDICTMENTS of American Taliban John Walker Lindh and "shoebomber" Richard Reid will have broader consequences than many Americans imagine. As important as these cases are for the investigation of al Qaeda and related terrorist activities in Afghanistan, they should also make it possible to trace, identify, and shut down Islamic extremist recruiting networks with which both men had contact in the United States and Britain. These groups continue to operate with impunity in non-Muslim countries as well as in the Islamic world.

     

    According to Lindh's own disclosures, he was trained by the Pakistani-based Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM), or Movement of Jihad Fighters. HUM has been identified as a terrorist organization by the State Department. Its main target area has been Kashmir. But the trail does not stop there. How did Lindh find his way to HUM?

     

    The intermediary that introduced Lindh to HUM is a secretive international Islamic group that both Lindh and Reid joined, known as Tablighi Jamaat (TIJ), or Call to the Community. Lindh attended a small mosque in San Francisco run by TIJ.

     

    Tablighi Jamaat presents itself as nothing more than a prayer and study circle. Media accounts of Lindh's involvement with TIJ have quoted a University of California specialist, Barbara Metcalf, who recycles the movement's claim that its obsessive rhetoric about jihad refers only to "the jihad of personal improvement." Though it gets less mention, Metcalf herself has acknowledged in print having heard that the group is also committed to military action.

     

    Government investigators do not seem to have taken much interest in TIJ's activities, perhaps fearful that agents will be seen as persecuting a religious group. An FBI representative in San Francisco comments vaguely, "It doesn't appear at all that [Lindh] was recruited here, that there were any cells or groups that told him to go over there and fight."

     

    Such a remark betrays a misunderstanding of recruiting practices in the Islamic milieu. Joining the extremist worldwide jihad of the violent Muslim sect known as Wahhabism is not a matter of filling out a form. One does not have to go to a recruiting office to sign up. Mosques in Western countries (most of them funded by the Saudi government) are permeated with Wahhabist jihad rhetoric, encountered the minute one walks in the door. Some imams preach jihad; some tolerate it sympathetically; some oppose it privately but are intimidated into permitting it. But it is everywhere. If the imam does not advocate jihad, activists hang out on the premises, or on the sidewalks and in the parking lots nearby, spreading the word.

     

    Young Muslims in the mosques of Western countries generally fall into two categories: children of immigrants uncertain about their identity, and new Muslims, or converts. To both, the Wahhabi message is simple and, for many, dazzling: You want to be one of the best Muslims; you must defend the victims of the wars on Islam in Bosnia, Chechnya, Israel, Kashmir, and more obscure places that have yet to make it into the media, like Burma. The way to jihad begins by joining a circle of likeminded people.

     

    Tablighi Jamaat is such a movement. TIJ was founded in India in the 1920s, at a time of aggravated conflict between Muslims and Hindus, which has always been a pretext for the spread of Wahhabism in the subcontinent. In the past TIJ rejected the Wahhabi label while also claiming to stay out of politics. But in recent years it has undergone a transformation. It infiltrated the Pakistani government, and was left off President Musharraf's recent list of banned extremist organizations. However, Indian sources claim that it was a major supplier of recruits for the terrorist groups Musharraf has suppressed--groups that also supported Harakat ul-Mujahidin, which trained Lindh and sent him to Kashmir. American Muslim sources say TIJ indoctrinated its followers to fight for the Taliban and al Qaeda as well.

     

    Whatever the fate of John Walker Lindh and Richard Reid, it is not enough to say that the war on terrorism will be a long one, fought on battlefields around the world. There is also an internal battlefield in the United States that has remained out of the limelight. That battlefield consists of groups like TIJ that the U.S. authorities seem to have overlooked, even after September 11, out of fear they would seem to be meddling in the protected area of purely religious endeavors. TIJ cells are recruiting on our soil as you read these words.

     

    Stephen Schwartz is completing a book, "Two Faces of Islam."

     

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/611644/posts

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/25/2013 8:51:28 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    My response to Mr. Observer is as follows:

     

    Observer: You may expect me to ignore your posts that make little sense because if I did respond, I may end up showing you to be a dimwit. Since you asked for it, I am responding.

     O.K. I am a dimwit. So what are you, Mr. Observer?

     Observer: Your post regarding the circle of hate is about someone who was associated with the Jamat and found it too lukewarm for his liking, left it, formed another Organization and carried on whatever he wished to do which he could not as part of Tablighi Jamat. So what are you trying to prove Mr Lodha? I see no relevance or a reflection on the Jamat.

     You wrote, “someone who was associated with the Jamat.” That was his first testing ground.

     Observer: Your post on the "ultimate truth" is the "ultimate shit" and shows you to be the "ultimate scavenger". Can you not even choose a proper source? What credibility does your source carry and if the charges are as serious as what the blog makes them out to be, what corroboration do you find from credible sources? Your source is an unknown and anonymous blogger whose other blog is the usual Barelvi rant against the Wahabis. The choice of your source to pick up a blog written in such poor taste and making such outlandish allegations is a reflection on your own character, the depths to which you can descend, and your proclivity for believing in any trash if it supports your prejudices. A person such as you is not worth having a discussion with.

     You made your point Mr. Observer. Now if you have enough guts to read the conclusion of an article posted on Middle East Quarterly by Alex Alexiev as follows:  

    “The estimated 15,000 Tablighi missionaries reportedly active in the United States present a serious national security problem.[51] At best, they and their proxy groups form a powerful proselytizing movement that preaches extremism and disdain for religious tolerance, democracy, and separation of church and state. At worst, they represent an Islamist fifth column that aids and abets terrorism. Contrary to their benign treatment by scholars and academics, Tablighi Jamaat has more to do with political sedition than with religion.

    U.S. officials should focus on reality rather than rhetoric. Pakistani and Saudi support for Tablighi Jamaat is incompatible with their claims to be key allies in the war on terror. While law enforcement focuses attention on Osama bin Laden, the war on terrorism cannot be won unless al-Qaeda terrorists are understood to be the products of Islamist ideology preached by groups like Tablighi Jamaat. If the West chooses to turn a blind eye to the problem, Tablighi involvement in future terrorist activities at home and abroad is not a matter of conjecture; it is a certainty.”

     Alex Alexiev is vice president for research at the Center for Security Policy in Washington, D.C.

    Observer: One gains wisdom learning from proven success such as the Tablighi Jamat and looking for reasons why it make good sense for the Jamat to be the way it is.……. Ghamdi and Sardar in their wisdom see weakness whereas I see strength. 

     You are nothing but a devout Tabligh Jamaat follower. It is as simple as that, Mr. Observer.

     Observer: The fact that the Jamat has grown to 10 million (one account in Wikipedia says 100 million) and is spread across 200 countries and yet retained its apolitical non takfiri character through the turbulent times that we have gone through, is proof of its tremendous strength and resilience. The Saudis with their petro dollars have not been able to corrupt it.

     No kidding! Are you sure about that? I think you got a lot of reading to catch you.

    One cannot continue to live in the twilight zone, Mr. Observer. Wake up, you are

    far behind in understanding what has taken place within Tabligh Jamat.  

     Observer: Please do not use 'Respected' and pleasantries when your post is rude. It only shows that you are a hypocrite.  

     That’s your opinion, Mr. Observer. You are biased and that is why you have such a difficult time confronting the “Truth. Never mind, how bad is Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia. You really ought to accept the facts and not try to run away from facing it.   

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/25/2013 8:39:47 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Is This Not Promoting Sectarianism In Islam?

     Shahin Sb,

     Give the Barelvis or for that matter any community  arms and then see what they do with it. It is then that their ideology becomes relevant in choosing victims. However, with or without ideology, there will be victims with armed people around.

     Shahin Sb, you can keep on cursing the Wahabis/Salafis/Deobandis but that is not an answer to my question of how many have you been able to bring to a common non-sectarian platform. As a matter of fact there aren't many Barelvis that you have been able to attract either. Nor, as far as I know, have you made a conscious effort. 

     

    If even the Tablighis are shooed away because they sport a beard and their women wear a Niqab, and if the fact that they are otherwise peace loving with a very long  record of remaining out of every controversy is irrelevant to you, then you are  extremely exclusivist and prejudiced.  Your target audience is clearly not Muslims but whoever your masters are. For those in the US, they may be trying to impress their neighbours and those in India their Indian friends. It is more of a projection of self and what you would like others to think of you rather than an attempt to bring about change.

     

    By Naseer Ahmed – 4/16/2013  12:11:04 AM

     

    http://www.newageislam.com/from-the-desk-of-editor/why-identify-islamist-terrorists-with-wahhabi-ideology,-ask-new-age-islam-readers--is-this-not-promoting-sectarianism-in-islam?/d/11187

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/25/2013 8:36:51 PM
  • Mr. Naseer Ahmed, you bring in Sufi/Bareilwis only to distract moderates' attention from the subject. We are discussing the growing influence of Wahhabi Islam in India. However, you do not want this subject discussed, so, like mohd yunus rational, keep bringing in other issues, whatever issues will rescue your sect. 

    This site has nothing to do with any sect whatsoever. The report we are discussing appeared originally in The Hindu, probably the most respected, independent newspaper of India. The entire world today is discussing the bane of Saudi-Wahhabism. So are readers of this website. That Saudis are deploying talented people like you to infiltrate extraneous issues into the discussion, shows that probably they are getting desperate at the entire world understanding their game and condemning their attempt to colonise Muslim minds through organisations like Tablighi Jamaat.
      Now that the US has entered into a deal with Iran disregarding the imperial and sectarian interests of its ally, the Saudi-Wahhabism and Israeli Zionism, maybe that explains the desperation. 
    No amount of mudslinging by Saudi-Wahhabis is going to damage the reputation of this website.
    Instead of trying to distract us, why don't you try to defend your murderous creed. Violent Takfiri Wahhabism appears to be winning new converts among Muslims; so why are you so desperate? Maybe you know your weaknesses more than we do. 
    I assure you peaceful Islam will defeat you. Your petrodollars and American, Zionist support to Jihadism is not going to save Wahhabism. Neo-Kharjism will die the same death ads did the original Kharjism.
    By Sultan Shahin - 11/25/2013 8:23:54 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    Tablighi Jamaat: Jihad's Stealthy Legions

    By Alex Alexiev  - Middle East Quarterly
    Winter 2005, pp. 3-11

     

    Every fall, over a million almost identically dressed, bearded Muslim men from around the world descend on the small Pakistani town of Raiwind for a three-day celebration of faith. Similar gatherings take place annually outside of Dhaka, Bangladesh, and Bhopal, India. These pilgrims are no ordinary Muslims, though; they belong to a movement called Tablighi Jamaat ("Proselytizing Group"). They are trained missionaries who have dedicated much of their lives to spreading Islam across the globe. The largest group of religious proselytizers of any faith, they are part of the reason for the explosive growth of Islamic religious fervor and conversion.

    Despite its size, worldwide presence, and tremendous importance, Tablighi Jamaat remains largely unknown outside the Muslim community, even to many scholars of Islam. This is no coincidence. Tablighi Jamaat officials work to remain outside of both media and governmental notice. Tablighi Jamaat neither has formal organizational structure nor does it publish details about the scope of its activities, its membership, or its finances. By eschewing open discussion of politics and portraying itself only as a pietistic movement, Tablighi Jamaat works to project a non-threatening image. Because of the movement's secrecy, scholars often have no choice but to rely on explanations from Tablighi Jamaat acolytes.

    As a result, academics tend to describe the group as an apolitical devotional movement stressing individual faith, introspection, and spiritual development. The austere and egalitarian lifestyle of Tablighi missionaries and their principled stands against social ills leads many outside observers to assume that the group has a positive influence on society. Graham Fuller, a former CIA official and expert on Islam, for example, characterized Tablighi Jamaat as a "peaceful and apolitical preaching-to-the-people movement."[1] Barbara Metcalf, a University of California scholar of South Asian Islam, called Tablighi Jamaat "an apolitical, quietist movement of internal grassroots missionary renewal" and compares its activities to the efforts to reshape individual lives by Alcoholics Anonymous.[2] Olivier Roy, a prominent authority on Islam at Paris's prestigious Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique, described Tablighi Jamaat as "completely apolitical and law abiding."[3] Governments normally intolerant of independent movements often make an exception for Tablighi Jamaat. The Bangladeshi prime minister and top political leadership, many of whom are Islamists, regularly attend their rallies, and Pakistani military officers, many of whom are sympathetic to militant Islam, even allow Tablighi missionaries to preach in the barracks.

    Yet, the Pakistani experience strips the patina from Tablighi Jamaat's façade. Pakistani prime minister Nawaz Sharif (1990-93; 1997-99), whose father was a prominent Tablighi member and financier, helped Tablighi members take prominent positions.[4] For example, in 1998, Muhammad Rafique Tarar took the ceremonial presidency while, in 1990, Javed Nasir assumed the powerful director-generalship of the Inter-Services Intelligence, Pakistan's chief intelligence agency. When Benazir Bhutto, less sympathetic to Islamist causes, returned to the premiership in 1993, Tablighis conspired to overthrow her government. In 1995, the Pakistani army thwarted a coup attempt by several dozen high-ranking military officers and civilians, all of whom were members of the Tablighi Jamaat and some of whom also held membership in Harakat ul-Mujahideen, a U.S. State Department-defined terrorist organization.[5] Some of the confusion over Tablighi Jamaat's apolitical characterization derives from the fact that the movement does not consider individual states to be legitimate. They may not become actively involved in internal politics or disputes over local issues, but, from a philosophical and transnational perspective, the Tablighi Jamaat's millenarian philosophy is very political indeed. According to the French Tablighi expert Marc Gaborieau, its ultimate objective is nothing short of a "planned conquest of the world" in the spirit of jihad.

    http://www.meforum.org/686/tablighi-jamaat-jihads-stealthy-legions

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/25/2013 8:23:25 PM
  • Dear shahin Saheb
    should i believe anemies of the Islam have created Ajami Islam to destroy the simple Meccan Islam. Should i belive they have hired you to promote  un-islamic practices to  detroty the Islam. Is it not a conspiracy theory you believe in?
    I asked why don't you and your companions wear the dress of Buddhist Monks or Hindu Pujaris. Why Hindu Pujaris, Buddhist Monks wear what Mr Wahiduddin khan wear?

    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/25/2013 7:53:58 PM
  • Shahin Sb,

    The discussion right now is about the impeccable credentials of the Tablighi Jamat which has proved over the last 84 years, to be a peaceful Jamat and is the only Sunni Jamat which is non Takfiri, eschews the doctrine of violent Jehad is apolitical and remained so all through its history. It is the only Jamat which was not banned during the emergency years while every other Jamat and Sangh was banned. It is also the only religious Jamat which is welcome in every country.

    The criticism of a Sufi/Barelvi website against the Jamat is that it eschews the doctrine of violent Jehad and it's programmes had nothing that inconveniences a "Kuffar" government anywhere in the world.
    The comment coming from a hostile Sufi/Barelvi site is the ultimate endorsement of its peaceful nature and also establishes that a Sufi/Barelvi endorse the doctrine of violent Jehad and believes in raising difficulties for  the "Kuffar" government.

    Yet you condemn the Jamat because you bear the Barelvi animosity to anything that is non Barelvi. Your war is therefore sectarian and against the non Barelvis and is not confined to the violent Taliban who only provide you cover for waging your sectarian war which extends to even the only proven peaceful Jamat among all sects of Islam which is the Tablighi Jamat.

    The genuine moderates on this site may please note that this is not a site of the moderate Muslim but of the Barelvis who have proven that they are anything but moderate.
    By Observer - 11/25/2013 7:25:40 PM
  • Ghulam Mohyideen Sb,

    The meaning of identity itself is separateness. When you talk about the Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Indian or Chinese identity, you are talking about what distinguishes each of this communities or nationalities from another. An individual comprises not one but multiple identities such as religion, sect, subsect, nationality, profession, organization one is serving, club one is member of etc and the dress may change according to the occasion.

    A Tablighi also has a religious identity besides national and language and all other identities. They wear their national dresses, speak their own language and the religious identity come from beard and head covering. Not all Jamatis sport a beard either. This part of religious identity is common to all Muslims of all sects. Ghaus Sb also sports a beard, wears a cap and wears the traditional Muslim dress of this country which is Kurta pyjama. 

    Among the Hindus, a shaivite distinguishes himself from a vaishnavaite by the way he wears the religious mark on his forehead.

    Creating an identity does not mean the people are intolerant about others. A Rotarian is not intolerant of a Lion but a Rotarian will attend a Rotary club and a Lion his own club and each will wear the badge of their club.

    Creating a distinctive identity in the commercial world is about creating a brand on which firms spend enormous amounts. Cadburys is a brand that has become synonymous with chocolates, Apple with electronics etc etc.

    Identity, branding etc play a very important, useful and positive role. I have not seen anyone decry identity and separateness so much as the educated and modern Muslims who are so embarrassed by their Muslim identity, that they would like to lose it completely. 

    There is however nothing evil about creating a separate identity and taking pride in it. Pride and shame are what propel people to excel.


    The positive approach would be to improve the branding and image of our religion rather than lose our identity from shame.

    By Observer - 11/25/2013 7:07:00 PM
  • yes, Sadaf Saheb you are right. It doesn't matter if some body visits shrines, or bows down in veneration of a Sufi saint, or doesn't. That is not an issue for our times. We can discuss that in peacetime. WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A WAR. We must first fight the fire that is burning our house down; we must first fight the marauders who are taking our youth away from us in the name of what they present as pure Islam and turn them into suicide bombers.
    Let me repeat what you said in your own characteristic style: 
    • Kaan khol ke sun lo sabhi, the definition of Wahabi is: "Anyone spreading   supremacism, exclusivism, obscurantism and fundamentalism of all sorts, creating a very conducive environment for extremism, radicalism, militancy to grow" among the people who profess Islam are Wahabis, irrespective of the fact that how many times the bugger may bow his head on graves and thus seem a Barelvi. Got it? Specially important this is for the Wahabi supporters. Do not try to make it Deobandi vs Barelvi thing. It is about the Wahabi Vs Muslim issue; Wahabis - who are in attempt to Hijack the brand 'Islam'.
      By sadaf - 11/25/2013 12:58:05 PM
    By Sultan Shahin - 11/25/2013 5:01:59 PM
  • In my experience Tablighi Jamaat is most attractive to those Muslims who put great value on ritualism and great emphasis on Muslim identity. It is least attractive to those Muslims who put great value on inclusivism and free thought. By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 11/25/2013 4:12:10 PM
  • There are no Jehadis among Sufi/ Barelvis. Now is the time for you to bring in Mafia Don Dawood Ibrahim and the murder of of Salman Taseer who visited Sufi shrines like the rest of the Muslim community minus Wahhabis. 
    However, there are many normal Muslims who are becoming militant now. Indeed until a few decades ago most of the community was peaceful and believed in co-existence and pluralism. Don't forget that the Pashtun communityfrom where  the Taliban come was Gandhian follower of Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan not very long ago. Now don't start blaming Gandhism for terrorism. Sarhadi Gandhi had learnt Gandhian non-violence not from Mahatma Gandhi, but from Islam. 
    It's the intrusion of Saudi-Wahhabism that turned many of the same people into terrorists. Now they justify wanton violence against innocent civilians according to their ideology that they call pure Islam. 
    Any one who looks at Islam as a peaceful religion must oppose that. Of course, those who think Islam is a religion of terrorism and violence, supremacism and obscurantism, will support them. One of the ways of supporting them is to divert all discussion about Wahhabism towards other sects and shortcomings of other sects. This is the route you and Mohammad Yunus rational have chosen. 
    I would advise other moderates on the site not to fall in this trap and maintain their focus on presenting Islam as a religion of moderation. 
    By Sultan Shahin - 11/25/2013 4:11:45 PM
  • Mr. Shahin,
    Focus on the two objections of the Sufi/Barelvi against the Tablighi Jamat:
    1. The doctrine of violent Jehad is totally absent in Tablighi Jamat
    2. Their five point programme has nothing that will inconvenience the 'Kafir' government.
    This is the ultimate endorsement from a hostile Sufi/Barelvi of the Jamat's peaceful nature.
    It is also proof that the Sufi/Barelvi is. jihadist and believes in becoming a pain in the backside for the 'kafir' government.
    Yet you will oppose the peaceful Tablighi and support the Jehadi Sufi/Barelvi!!!
    By Observer - 11/25/2013 12:59:23 PM
  • Kaan khol ke sun lo sabhi, the definition of Wahabi is: "Anyone spreading   supremacism, exclusivism, obscurantism and fundamentalism of all sorts, creating a very conducive environment for extremism, radicalism, militancy to grow" among the people who profess Islam are Wahabis, irrespective of the fact that how many times the bugger may bow his head on graves and thus seem a Barelvi. Got it? Specially important this is for the Wahabi supporters. Do not try to make it Deobandi vs Barelvi thing. It is about the Wahabi Vs Muslim issue; Wahabis - who are in attempt to Hijack the brand 'Islam'. By sadaf - 11/25/2013 12:58:05 PM
  • dear sultan shahin
    perhaps you didn't read the full comment. i gave simple solution. i didn't say i need to be a journalist in order to give the link. i just said for contradiction you as a resourceful journalist can contact Dr Shabbir Ahmed

    here is the link
    drshabbir.com/library/criminals.pdf
    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/25/2013 12:40:42 PM
  • dear Sultan Shahin - 11/25/2013 12:06:12 PM
    who was fighting for khilafat when the dead body of the prophet laying uncared. who was killing uthman in the Mosque? were not they sons of holy companions? was not ummul momineen encouraging Talaha and Zubair?

    I don't know whether you will win or not. Islam's history is full of bloodshed before the kharjis.
    who was Kharji? hz Aisha or hz Ali? if islam changed them completely why the greed/envy and fight. who was the kharji? hz ali or hz Muaviya.
    we are told that four khalifas were rightly guided. they were trained by none other than hz mohammed. Still hz uthman was appointing his relatives on important posts neglecting their ability.
    dear sultan saheb. you can belive in anything mystic or un-mystic i wish you all the best for your victory. Muslims were fighting/are fighting/will keep fighting. this is the lesson from the history. however you can ignore it in you optimism.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/25/2013 12:33:10 PM
  • Yes, Mr Naseer, Wahhabi state was established with the help of British Empire and now has full support of the West. Even after 9/11America continues to protect Saudi-Wahhabi Arabia. By Sultan Shahin - 11/25/2013 12:16:54 PM
  • dear Observer - 11/25/2013 11:56:28 AM
    i quoted from the barailvi site what peeron ke peer abdul Qadir Jeelani said about Shias.
    i quoted from the barailvi site what Imam Rabbani said about Hindus.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/25/2013 12:13:03 PM
  • Dear Rational, you don't have to be a journalist to give the url of the page from which you are copy-pasting. A reference url helps. By Sultan Shahin - 11/25/2013 12:09:18 PM
  • Dear Rational,  Saudi Wahhabis have employed various people to create diversions so that Muslims do not discuss the bane of Wahhabism and keep talking about other unnecessary or less necessary and less urgent issues. Discuss anything but Wahhabism is your motto. Do not let Muslims think of moderation. Let a moderate narrative not emerge. 
    I do not see any point in falling into the trap Wahhabi extremists in different garbs keep setting for moderate Muslims. You do not think there is any possibility of moderation in Islam. But you do not find anything wrong with Wahhabi extremism. I do not see what subject we can discuss. You are an expert on Barailvism, I am not. It's not my subject. I do not find Barailvis engaging in organised attempts as violence, so I do not concern myself with them. 
    However, I can tell you this. No matter how impossible it may appear to you and your violent Wahhabi companions. It's Peaceful, Moderate Islam that will eventually win. We always have. We defeated Kharjis. We will defeat Neo-Kharjis too.
    You may think this is a mystical belief. You may not see any rational possibility of Wahhabism's defeat. After all it is propagated by the oil super power of the world under the protection of the sole super power of the world. But I believe Islam is a religion of balance and moderation, the middle path. It is this version of Islam that will prevail. Insha Allah.
    By Sultan Shahin - 11/25/2013 12:06:12 PM
  • Dear Sultan Shahin.
    May i request you to enlighten me on cultural aspect? what are the constituents of the culture? is the prayer also part of it? will you use cow's dung and urine to clean your house as our brothers in India do? Is cow's dung paak as per Islam's teachings. . pahle ham apne kachhe gharon ko gobar se leepte the ab nahi. achha kiya ya bura kiya.
     will you use panchgavya because our brothers do as tabarruk. many Barailvis wear green pagdi. is it not the alienation?
    something you are missing my dear Sultan Shahin
    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/25/2013 12:04:21 PM
  • The charge of the Barelvi is that the Tablighi Jamat integrates too well with the "Kuffar" and is therefore welcome in every country. Can the Barebi ever be consistent? Liars and slanderers can never be. Taqwa is beyond them


    Sufi/Barelvi website Noore Madinah

    http://www.nooremadinah.net/Documents/VariousIslamicTopics/41)TableeghiJamaatExposed/TableeghiJamaatExposed.asp

    The movement of Tableeghi Jamaat is being utilised by the enemies of Islam as an effective instrument in their struggle to prevent the emergence of a true Islamic movement in Europe and elsewhere in the world. Therefore, it is incumbent on all Muslims to disown it and discourage its activity in every way. The British were continually looking for ways of infiltrating and subverting Islam. They kept, through their comprehensive spy network, a very careful eye, on any new Muslim group and movement. The Tableeghi Jamaat was set up under the British Rule in India. After closely watching the Jamaat for some time, the British realised that here was exactly what they were looking for, a movement that totally absorbed the energy of its members and yet did not threaten British domination in any way as the doctrine of Jihad was totally absent in this movement. They saw that instead of the Jamaat's directing their energies outwardly towards their legitimate (sic) Kaafir enemies, was now directed inwardly towards the rest of the Muslims. Therefore, it was a group that was allowed to flourish.

    …If one looks deeply, this five point action plan meets the complete approval of the enemies of Islam, since there is no mention anywhere of anything which might even slightly inconvenience a Kaafir government. This is the reason why the Tableeghi Jamaat moves freely in Kufaar countries in Europe and the rest of the world, while other Muslims are being imprisoned, tortured, and killed on a daily basis.



    By Observer - 11/25/2013 11:56:28 AM
  • dear Sultan Shahin - 11/25/2013 11:21:34 AM
    at least two of them are in your company. are not they? if you have doubt, read the comments where the pollution of non-muslims was under discussion.
    paki napaki/shudh ashudh  concept created by religions is the source of this thinking. please before you go after other sects, clean your house.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/25/2013 11:50:19 AM
  • Mr. Naseer Ahmed, any one who knows anything about Tablighis knows that this organisation was started with the purpose of alienating Muslims from their cultural practices and their civilisational milieu and has been doing that successfully with support of intellectuals like you. Most people do not announce their nefarious designs in books. As you said, they come from Deobandi-Wahhabi stream and havebeen spreading   supremacism, exclusivism, obscurantism and fundamentalism of all sorts, creating a very conducive environment for extremism, radicalism, militancy to grow.  I do not, however, expect apologists for Saudi-Wahhabism to accept this. I cannot believe, however, that you do not know this.  it is common knowledge how and why Tablighi Jamaat came into being any why Saudi state gives it such massive support. By Sultan Shahin - 11/25/2013 11:38:21 AM
  • Dear sultan Shahin and others.
    Why Barailvi Imams don't wear the same cloths Hindu pundits(pujari) wear? Why they don't wear the cloths Buddhist Monks wear in order to promote interfaith harmony. why don't you fulfil the demands of RSS? are not the religions responsible for this separation? Why don't you keep the idols in the mosques.
    Barailvis are tolerant to Hindus because of the Chadhwa they offer to Mazars. it is for their money otherwise they are najis in body and spirit.
    Mr ghulam ghauss has expressed his belief in response to Radha ji. their mazar parasti is not going to help them.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/25/2013 11:37:20 AM
  • Dear Rational,  I cannot possibly like to live in the company of people, no matter how great intellectuals and scholars who consider other humans sub-human or polluted in body or spirit. By Sultan Shahin - 11/25/2013 11:21:34 AM
  • Dear Sultan Shahin
    one simple question: how can a faith that non-Muslims are najis in body and spirit be helpful in bridging  the gap between Muslims and Non-Muslims. have not your companions expressed this belief?

    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/25/2013 11:11:28 AM
  • dear Sultan Shahin - 11/25/2013 7:03:32 AM
    you are a journalist hence more resourceful than me. if any contradiction you find in my quote, you can contact Dr Shabiir Ahmed. I don't know much about him. i read his name on this site. however most of the quotes i am aware are verified. i have read at many places. in my comments i have used Barailvi sites to quote the imam rabbani, waliullah, abdul qadir jeelani and imam raza.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/25/2013 11:02:43 AM
  • dear observer.
     i agree with most of the comment. however neither i find prayer attractive for me nor i believe in it. i leave it to God if He exists and there will be a judgement day. for me religions are confusions. I prefer simplicity. despite shortcomings of the tablighi jamat, it provides basic religious education to common masses. however you will find bad people in tablighi jamat also as they can be found anywhere.
    Still If I can count myself among the Muslim I agree with whole comment. I don't know what i am. so as a Muslim i abhor all forms of major and minor shirks and innovations practiced by my brailvi brothers. I prefer to live with good deeds within my capacity.
    Despite their deviation i find many barailvis close to my heart as human beings. if caste (i curse it wherever it is found) has not come into my way, i would have have a barailvi wife. my youngest sister is married to a Brailvi.
    Despite my detest to Brailvism , they are completely safe from my hands. however i condemn this sectarian war going on this site. By rational mohammed yunus - 11/25/2013 10:50:56 AM
  • dear Sultan Shahin - 11/25/2013 7:03:32 AM
    this is copied from the book "criminals of Islam" by Dr Shabbir Ahmed. anybody can search in any search engine. since the book is freely downloadable in pdf fprmat, there is no need to give the link.
    it is in the response to mr lodhiya to show him the mirror what our imams have said and this is the stuff Islam has produced.
    if something is missing or some wrong information is in that book, its responsibility goes to Dr Shabber ahmed.
    i never found Abdullah wahab in any Tablighi jamat literature. he was introduced to me by a Barailvi friend who wanted to convert me into Brailvism.
     my district is full of Tablighi Jamat. if you ask any jamati I am sure very few you will find aware of this Abdullah wahab. awareness about ibn e taimiyah is out of question. you can try in Delhi. yes they must knoe imam hanbal because most of the Muslims know the names of these four imams.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/25/2013 10:22:10 AM
  • Mr Sultan Shahin,

    Can you establish what you just said quoting from the books the Jamat follows? Can you even find one reference to Wahab in their books? You cannot and you know it. You are therefore slandering the Jamat not having found a single good reason to oppose it. Stop debasing yourself with lies and slander. Is this not just your Barelvi antagonism for what is known as a Deobandi Jamat?
    By Observer - 11/25/2013 7:49:43 AM
  • How does it help the common Muslim if Tablighi Jamaat keeps him/her alienated from neighbours of other religions or schools of thought in pursuance of Mohammad Ibn-e-Abdul Wahhab's instruction that good Muslims should carry enmity and hatred in their hearts for non-Muslims (which includes all non-Wahhabi Muslims) and express it with their tongues and in action? Hating one's own cultural roots and one's neighbours, local customs and practices, cannot be a very healthy practice? All that Tablighi Jamaat does is turn Muslims into bizarre creatures living in modern cities like aliens. By Sultan Shahin - 11/25/2013 7:15:06 AM
  • rational, it would help people if you also copy the url of the page you are copying, and also in the interest of fairness any contrarian opinion you find. Like, the following, for instance. 

    Best AnswerAsker's Choice
    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090110091819AAQ74Vu
    Immortal Verses answered 5 years ago
    there are 4 schools of fiqh(understanding)(Hanafi, Malaki, Shafi, and Hanbali). They only differ in about 25% of the issues. They differ in small issues of how to perform acts, such as prayer. 

    @MUHAMMADK, many of your quotes are pure lies for example "Abu Hanifa says, “Be the curse of Allah on those who call themselves 
    Imams… Imam Malik, Shafi’i and Ja’far Sadiq were deceitful liars and 
    sodomites. (Tahqiq-il-Mazahib)" A PURE LIE 

    How can that be when Ash Shafi'i was born after the death of Abu Hanifa? 

    Abu Hanifa and Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal were "Munkireen" (deniers) of
    Hadith.A person told a Hadith on behalf of Imam Malik to Abu Hanifa that wudhu (ablution) is half of faith. Imam Abu Hanifa responded, “You should perform two ablutions so that your faith can become whole. (Khateeb Baghdadi 13:387). This one makes sense.Abu Hanifa should have been flogged since he accepted only 17 Ahadith.(Khateeb 13:387)

    Ummm Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal was a muhaddith, he has a book of hadith Musnad Ahmad. Have you ever read Abu Hanafi's Fiqh ul Akbaar? Obviously he does not deny Hadith, this is also a fabrication. 

    Abu Hanafi hated Abu Jafaar, I DONT THINK SO. He was his student, and has many quotes praising him. 

    Look at the books you are quoting they are mostly written by baatil authors. And your quoting people not books, (Khateeb Baghdadi 13:387) That doesn't even make sense, Khateeb Baghdadi was a person not a book. 
    Most of this crap is coming from a man called SHABBIR AHMAD WHO IS A KNOWN LIAR. 

    Also the question wasn't about the imams, it was about the Usul ul Fiqh. Which are VERY SIMILAR.
    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090110091819AAQ74Vu

    By Sultan Shahin - 11/25/2013 7:03:32 AM
  • Rational and others,
    Based on the discussion on the Quran, the hair splitting and the varied interpretations, does it not make sense for the Tablighi Jamat to keep things simple?
    The common Muslim is primarily engaged in earning his living and looking after his family and has neither the time nor the education, to wrestle with the myriad interpretations of the Quran based on the seemingly differing verses on the same subject. These differing verses add depth for the thinking Muslim but can confuse a lay person.  The community needs a few who devote their life to a study of the Quran and who can fully and holistically understand its message. Unfortunately, today, not even the Al Azhar encourages its students for independent thinking and a fresh reflection and interpretation. On the other hand, every Tom, Dick and Harry can now read a translation and engage in endless discussion.
    What the common Muslims need to understand are the basics of the religion and its moral and ethical principles which help him become a good person in all his interactions with society. The Quran for such people will be a book used mostly for liturgical purpose.
    Simplifying things is a double edged sword. You can have a Jamat as the Tablighi Jamat who have simplified the religion to promote faith and taqwa and for a spiritual awakening of Muslims, eschewing Takfir, conflict and politics. On the other hand you have other ideologues who have `simplified’ Islam to promote Takfir, hate, violence, misogyny, sectarianism and inter faith disharmony.
    You therefore need a body of Muslims who can correct the deviants based on both a sound, correct and holistic interpretations of the Quran.
    We have had this discussion before where I explained that three dimensional holograms are made by taking pictures from three different angles and combining them to produce a three dimensional mental image. Each of these pictures is different from the others with some overlap.
    Take the verses relating to creation. You have a verse saying that man is created from (potter’s) clay and another verse spaced widely apart from the previous one saying that “We have created all living beings from water”. Are these contradictory? The verse regarding having created all living beings from water did not make sense to the Sahabi and Hazrat Umar (RA) said that he did not understand it. Many of the verses that were not understood then because of the state of knowledge of the world then are perfectly understandable today. We know that our body is 70% water by weight and the rest are elements found in the earth. We are also mostly empty space. If there was a third verse saying that we are mostly empty space, it would have been the truth but it would have also created enormous confusion and made belief impossible for the 7th century Arabs. The verses on the same subject are to be found spread widely apart lest man think that everything he needed to know about the subject was covered. The fact that we are mostly empty space was left for man to discover on his own.
    Let us take some of the debates on this forum. We have concluded that Tauheed and Taqwa are necessary and may prove sufficient to earn rewards in the hereafter. This conclusion does not contradict the many verses which speak of a belief in all the prophets, belief in the hereafter, performing prayer, fasting, performing Haj, paying zakat etc etc. These are some of the important ways in which we show and strengthen our Taqwa.
    Taqwa is not something which comes easily to people. Unless a person is always conscious of God as a witness to all his thoughts, speech and deeds, I doubt whether he can reach the level of Taqwa required for success. So atheists and agnostics beware! So a belief in God and the hereafter is required which is what the Quran also says. Shirk or belief in multiple Gods dilutes this sense of accountability. Tauheed is therefore the sine qua non for attaining piety or taqwa. So the easy path to attain Taqwa is from Tauheed and a belief in the hereafter where the consequences of our acts in this world reach their fruition.
    To build such Taqwa, God has prescribed certain ways to follow. Praying 5 times a day is both very easy and very difficult. You would however agree that it requires both a faith in God, respect for His laws, sacrifice of one’s time and comfort, and discipline. The practice therefore helps build one’s capacity for showing Taqwa consistently. Fasting similarly is considered pure worship since no one except God knows how true one has been to one’s fast. Performing Haj has its own power to transform the lives of those who perform it. Zakat is giving away one’s earnings to the needy and requires faith in the hereafter unless one is very rich and indulges in philanthropy for fame. Taqwa also means a constant striving to attain the highest level.
    For arguments sake, let us assume that there are two persons, one an atheist and another a believer who have done equal good or harm to society and both are falling short of the required Taqwa.  The believer, for having made sincere attempts following the teachings of his Prophet (any of the prophets) will stand at an advantage if God chooses to allow the Prophet to intercede on his behalf.  Besides his secular good deeds, his religious good deeds may make the difference as these would fetch him intercession of his Prophet. The atheist has only his secular good deeds to help him and if my understanding of the Quran is correct, it is only through such grace that the majority will make it to the heaven and there will be very few who will attain heaven purely on the strength of their good deeds alone. Taqwa also means that we maximize our chances to earn the pleasure of God which means following all injunctions and avoiding all haram.
    All the verses in the Quran are right and contain the truth but the entire truth can be constructed only from a holistic understanding of the entire body of the Quran combined with our knowledge of the World. All other things being equal, a person who is well grounded in the physical and behavioral sciences can understand the Quran better than one who devotes his entire time to the study of the religious literature alone. A corollary that follows is that we shall forever be improving our understanding of the Quran and therefore continuous effort is required.
    The Quran is also a very simple book to follow for those who would like to follow it but not for those who would like to see what they can avoid doing or for those who worry about what will happen to others. I hope now people can grasp why some are guided by it and others are misguided which the Quran states explicitly. By Observer - 11/25/2013 5:06:36 AM
  • Mr Rafiq Lodhia,
    You may expect me to ignore your posts that make little sense because if I did respond, I may end up showing you to be a dimwit. Since you asked for it, I am responding.
    I thank you for the post regarding the convent boy turning extremist and if you have noticed, I used it giving you credit for it. It disproves the theory of Shahin Sb, and others on this website that terrorism is exclusive to certain sects and the Barelvi is not involved. Your post has helped me counter that theory.
    Your post regarding the circle of hate is about someone who was associated with the Jamat and found it too lukewarm for his liking, left it, formed another Organization and carried on whatever he wished to do which he could not as part of Tablighi Jamat. So what are you trying to prove Mr Lodha? I see no relevance or a reflection on the Jamat.
    Your post on the "ultimate truth" is the "ultimate shit" and shows you to be the "ultimate scavenger". Can you not even choose a proper source? What credibility does your source carry and if the charges are as serious as what the blog makes them out to be, what corroboration do you find from credible sources? Your source is an unknown and anonymous blogger whose other blog is the usual Barelvi rant against the Wahabis. The choice of your source to pick up a blog written in such poor taste and making such outlandish allegations is a reflection on your own character, the depths to which you can descend, and your proclivity for believing in any trash if it supports your prejudices. A person such as you is not worth having a discussion with.
    Lastly, l have said that Javed Ghamdis's views are balanced. His facts are unimpeachable. He does not distort facts to suit his purpose which shows that he is an honest person and balanced. His conclusions are however silly. Ziauddin Sardar is also not wrong when he criticises the Jamat for being apolitical. What he says is fact. However, what he considers is its weakness is actually its strength. That is my opinion vs Sardars opinion. Neither of us disagree on the facts but in the way we react to those facts.
    Let us realize that neither Ghamdi nor Sardar have built a massive grass root level movement like the Tablighi Jamati and are therefore not expected to know anything about what it takes to build such an organization. A successful organization with a history of 84 years can be expected to have gone through a number of experimentations through its history and perfected what is best for it. An outsider, who has no experience of building anything of similar nature and magnitude would avoid criticising if he has sufficient good sense and wisdom. One gains wisdom learning from proven success such as the Tablighi Jamat and looking for reasons why it make good sense for the Jamat to be the way it is. Viewed from this perspective, what Sardar or what Ghamdi would have liked the Jamat to be, can seen to be a prescription for disaster. You may agree or disagree based on your experience and judgement, but when two people do not disagree as to the facts of the case, but only in their prescription, the difference lies in their respective wisdom. Ghamdi and Sardar in their wisdom see weakness whereas I see strength.
    The fact that the Jamat has grown to 10 million (one account in Wikipedia says 100 million) and is spread across 200 countries and yet retained its apolitical non takfiri character through the turbulent times that we have gone through, is proof of its tremendous strength and resilience. The Saudis with their petro dollars have not been able to corrupt it.
    Please do not use 'Respected' and pleasantries when your post is rude. It only shows that you are a hypocrite.  You remind me of the character Uriah Heep in the novel David copper field. By Observer - 11/25/2013 12:54:45 AM
  • *…an Egyptian proverb warns: “In his father’s home a boy’s chastity is safe, but let him become a dervish [Sufi adept] and the buggers will queue up behind him.”* By rational mohammed yunus - 11/25/2013 12:05:30 AM
  • Mr Rafiq Lodhiya
    Let us have some glimpses of Some honorable Characters Islam has Produced. These people are Imams of Devandis and Barailvis/Sufis alike.
    See what your leaders say about each other.

    Out of the scores of mutual indictments of the ‘Imams’ , the following few
    are worthy of a glance in Tareekh Khateeb Baghdadi, Vol 13 pp 390 to 396,
    pg 498 on, and Vol 14 pg 257 on.
    The mischief of Imam Abu Hanifa for the Ummah is no less than that of
    Dajjal. According to Imam Abdur Rahman Mehdi, his Fitna is greater then
    that of Dajjal, the anti-Christ.
    Safyan Thauri and Imam Auzaa’i said, "No one as reprehensible as Abu
    31
    Hanifa has been born in Islam."
    Abu Hanifa called Imam Ja’far Sadiq and Imam Malik as the worst of
    creations.
    Imam Shafi’i called Abu Hanifa the worst of creation.
    Imam Abu Yousuf declared Imam Abdullah bin Mubarak a great sinner.
    Abdullah replied, “Abu Yousuf is a greater sinner and a greater liar.”
    Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal said, "I agree with what you are telling me, but if
    Abu Hanifa supported it, then I reject it as nonsense."
    Abu Hanifa and Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal were "Munkireen" (deniers) of
    Hadith.
    A person told a Hadith on behalf of Imam Malik to Abu Hanifa that wudhu
    (ablution) is half of faith. Imam Abu Hanifa responded, “You should
    perform two ablutions so that your faith can become whole. (Khateeb
    Baghdadi 13:387). This one makes sense.
    Abu Hanifa should have been flogged since he accepted only 17 Ahadith.
    (Khateeb 13:387)
    Note: The complete name of the oft-quoted book below, Tahqiq-il-Mazahib,
    is Gharaib fil Tahqiq-il-Mazahib Wa Tafhimul Masaail.
    Abu Hanifa declared that Imam Malik was a man without any sense.
    (Tahqiq-il-Mazahib)
    Imam Ja’afar Sadiq was an ugly blot on Islam according to Ahmad bin
    Hanbal. (Tahqiq-il-Mazahib)
    Imam Naafe’ said, “Imam Shafi’i committed the most grievous crime,
    calling Hadith as another form of revelation. He equated Hadith with Wahi.
    (Tahqiq-il-Mazahib). This one is quite right.
    Imam Shafi’i and Imam Malik were sodomites and catamites.” A Mullah at
    large from Deoband (“Maulana” Yousuf Islahi), these days begins his
    address by declaring Imam Shafi’i as his hero.
    Imam Shafi’I, being a great forger, is totally unreliable. (Imam Yahya Bin
    Moin in Jama’ Bayanul ‘Ilm)
    Abu Hanifa had no trace of the knowledge of Deen. (Imam Ahmad Bin
    32
    Hanbal, Khateeb Baghdadi 13:396)
    Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal was apparently a vanguard of Islam, but in truth,
    he was a dangerous hypocrite. Mujahid-al-Munafiq Imam Ahmad bin
    Hanbal, by Abdul Muhsin bin Mullah Ali Al-Qari, pg 67-135)
    Abu Hanifa is no less than Iblees and Dajjal. (Imam Malik, Khateeb
    Baghdadi 13:396)
    The worst of all people in Islam is Abu Hanifa. He is Dajjal. (Abdur Rahman
    Bin Mahdi, Imam Ozaa’i, Khateeb Baghdadi 13:498)
    Imam Yahya bin Moin said that Iman Hanbal was a hidden Sabai (a bitter,
    hateful Shi’a). (Tahqiq-il-Mazahib)
    The Sacred Tank of water, Intercession, Angels questioning in the grave,
    Doom of the grave, Returning of souls in the grave, are truths beyond
    doubt. But Imam Bukhari said, “If Hanbal says that, it is all nonsense.”
    (Tahqiq-il-Mazahib)
    Abu Hanifa says, “Be the curse of Allah on those who call themselves
    Imams… Imam Malik, Shafi’i and Ja’far Sadiq were deceitful liars and
    sodomites. (Tahqiq-il-Mazahib)
    Abu Hanifa said that the ‘Imams’ of Islam are worse than the crawling
    creatures. (Durre-Mukhtar)
    Imam Ja’far Sadiq himself was a master forger, but he called all Imams of
    Figh and the hadith narrators as the worst creatures under the heavens.
    (Tahqiq-il-Mazahib)
    Imam Abu Yusuf said that other Imams were insects compared to Imam
    Abu Hanifa. (Fatawa Alamgiri)
    Jalaluddin Rumi narrated in his Mathnavi, “These four (Abu Hanifa, Malik,
    Hanbal, and Shafi’i) have carved four religions out of one Islam. They have
    created irreconcilable divisions in the Deen of Nabi (S).”

    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/24/2013 11:16:25 PM
  • Do you have any “Self-Respect?”
    Not at all for having just part of name mohammed. i have many other reason to have it.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/24/2013 9:34:55 PM
  • dear Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/24/2013 1:34:15 PM
    See what Islam has produced mr lodhiya? so many false/gossip writers as Imams. So many murders as Ghazis. So many false interpreters of holy text. so many apologists like you. a book which can't be understood. Another books according to you pile of false stories.
    a religion whose followers fight for khilafat, kills their leader in the mosque, get engaged in war against each other, rapists and murderers with the name of mohammed. list is endless.
    a man called lodhiya who think Mushriks are najis in body and spirit.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/24/2013 7:51:21 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    There we go again, folks! Rational Pseudo strikes again. In another article, he wrote, “The fact remains, the Quran is a miracle in the sense, majority of its reader don't understand it. some true followers are peaceful, some others are terrorists.”

     

    “Terrorists call it miracle. Sufis call it miracle. traditionalist call it miracle. moderates call it miracle. who understand not a single word call it a miracle.”

     

    http://www.newageislam.com/islam-and-spiritualism/arab-news/qur’an-is-the-miracle-for-mankind/d/34556

     

    The truth of the matter is the man is absolutely relentless. He has no problem using the name “Mohammed, but he thrives on devaluing everything that Islam stands for. This is truly a miracle as the man’s mental ability cannot see anything worthwhile about Islam, even after being born in a respected Muslim family.

     

    Watch out folks! That is what joining “Tabligh Jamaat” will do to anyone’s head. It is quite apparent that these “Jamaatis” just went about preaching false messages of Islam by misguiding their devout followers. One only has to listen to Javed Ahmed Ghamidi in order to grasp his own cautionary words to the followers of “Tablighis”:

     Ya Fazaail Ki Kitaabon, Aur Bikul Jhooth Riwayaton, Aur Kissa aur Kahniyaan

    En Ko Ek Taraf Rakh Do ……… Aur Allah Ki Kitaab Haat Ma Pakaro            

     Thanks again for reading, I remain,

     Very respectfully yours, rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/24/2013 1:34:15 PM
  • Mr. Hats Off,

     

    I appreciate your candor and your insight. Keep on pouring your thoughts as all of your rebuttals are worth reading.

     

    Thanks as always. Your friend – rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/24/2013 12:56:59 PM
  • Confused Rational Pseudo,

     

    Do you have any “Self-Respect?” If you are so proud to let your friends and colleagues call you by the name “Mohammed Younus, then at least be respectful of your good name which was given by your beloved grandmother.

     

    You can call me imbecile or by any other name you desire, but you simply cannot change your own name, that is, “Mohammed. If you continue to hang on to this particular name, then why do you keep ranting and raving about how bad is Islam and our Prophet of Islam?

     

    Don’t talk about Butcher Idi. He was given refuge in the Holy Land of Saudi Arabia. He did

    died there as a peaceful resident. Muslim leaders loves to forgive sins of the evildoers. That is what they do best? What else is new?

     

    One more thing, imbecile is a person whose mental acumen is well below par. Why not raise yours, and in turn, I will try my best to raise mine too. Happy now, Mr. Rational Pseudo. Kindly have mercy on the “Moderate Muslims. This is just a small request of this humble Musalmaan.

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia         

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/24/2013 12:06:31 PM
  • Respected Observer,

     

    As-Salaam Alay-Kum

     

    Not sure whether you are observing or reading, however, I noticed that you conveniently ignored “A Circle of Hate” and “The convent school boy who turned terror commander.” That’s right. I reckon you simply do not know how to confront the “Truth” about what ails the Islamic world? Why would you care? You want to keep on justifying and covering up the sins of some Islamic organizations which has taken a totally wrong path.

     

    Most importantly, I was glad to realize that you took your precious time to view and listen to the YouTube link of Javed Ahmed Ghamidi. Though, what truly baffled me was your first paragraph wherein you basically contradicted your own statement. First, you fully agreed

    with Ghamidi’s viewpoint, and then you took a 180 degree turn and termed it as disastrous if Tabligh Jamaat followed his advice. What made you do that?

     

    Mr. Observer, I am sorry to say that you are simply confused. Granted that, a village primary school cannot follow Harvard, Yale or Cambrdige, but the died-hard followers of

    Tabligh Jamaat can take a simple advice from Ghamidi as follows:

     

    Quran Ka Zariya Sa Nasiyat Ki Jiyaa ….

               

    Allah Ki Kitaab Haath Ma Pakarain

     

    Usi Ka Parna Ka Logon Main Shauk Paida Karain                    

     

    With the hidden personalities coupled with hidden mindsets, it is hard to pinpoint what your very own belief is? You remain critical of Sultan Shahin Saheb, but do you realized your own weaknesses in making the rebuttals? I do not know who you are, but after continuing to

    read your comments, I get a feeler that you are a devout “Tabligh Jamaat” advocate. You salute to their wisdom without making a sincere attempt to advise them to follow our

    Holy Quran. Think about it, Mr. Observer.

     

    Very respectfully yours, - rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org

      

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/24/2013 11:37:06 AM
  • mr lodhiya. are you imbecile. this mohammed yunus was given by my nani who was a very loving and religious person. i was first grand son to her eldest daughter. there was a tradition to name the child after the prophets.what is big in it. idi ameen the uganda dictator had the ameen in his name, does it mean he was ameen as we are told hz mohammed was ameen.  By rational mohammed yunus - 11/24/2013 5:10:03 AM
  • Javed Ghamdis views are balanced and to a large extent resonate with my view of the Jamat as a village primary school. The Jamat being a grass root level movement has to keep things simple and I must salute their wisdom. Ghamdi's views are elitist and would be disastrous if a grass root level movement followed his advice.

    Javed Ghamdi should build his kind of elitist Jamat where every person is like a Muhammad Yunus. It is much needed.

    However, to expect a village primary school to be like Harvard or Yale or Cambridge or Oxford is silly.
    By Observer - 11/24/2013 1:52:59 AM
  • dear mr rational, it is my humble opinion that you just read and re-read what mr ghulam mohiyuddin has just said.

    i hope you will take my suggestion for what it is worth.

    regards.
    By hats off! - 11/24/2013 1:16:04 AM
  • Rational, - Let science try to find the truth. Let religion try to define what is good and what is right. Let us in this forum discuss peace, righteousness,  justice, kindness, gender equality etc. Instead of a literal reading of everything that is in the Quran, let the Quran be an inspiration for us to move in the direction of what is good and what is right.

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 11/24/2013 1:10:20 AM
  • Look Mr. Pseudo. Why are you using “Mohammed” in your name? Now that is a million dollar question which I doubt that you will ever be able to answer. If you hate Islam so much then change your good name, Mr. Pseudo.

     

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/23/2013 10:37:56 PM
  • "Oh yes, “My first name is Mohammed. I know my name and I respect the fact that it was given to me by my beloved parents. (May Almighty Allah rest their souls in peace)."
    mr mohammed rafiq grow up. read the quran. there are many criminals despite having their first name Mohammed.
    Gandhi, mother teresa , martin luther, nelson mandella don't have their first name mohammed.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/23/2013 10:30:03 PM
  • Mr Lodhiya
    "It defines who the person is and it reveals his personal
    character without hiding. Why would any sane Muslim hide his/her identity? Surely, you will agree with me that only those who are involved in illegal and secretive activities will try to hide their names."
    cultist mentality of a moderate called rafiq.
    i repeat are the Muslim women who cover their faces criminal?
    it is like Muslims when fail in debates with Ali sina call him to open verbal debates so that they can kill him.

    *Is criticizing the faith Islam and its sources a criminal activity?*
    i have never found the Editor has ever asked to reveal the identity of his guests. even he suggested me this present title.
    Surely we who write under pseudo identities not going to fulfill your cultist demand.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/23/2013 10:23:22 PM
  • Mr. Rational,

     

    I remain totally speechless after reading your response. You asked, “Why your God Allah makes evils appear good to people?” Why are you blaming God Allah? He has given you a life and a brain to think. You lost yours while circling around Tablighis, period. Now, you ought to start recharging your brain cells so that you can wise up and perform good deeds with positive thinking. You have too much resentment in your heart. Purify it, please!  

     

    Oh yes, “My first name is Mohammed. I know my name and I respect the fact that it was given to me by my beloved parents. (May Almighty Allah rest their souls in peace).

     

    Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/23/2013 10:23:11 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    “Advice for Tablighi Jamaat” by Javed Ahmed Ghamidi

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syElmASxFcI

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/23/2013 10:11:34 PM
  • dear Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/23/2013 9:21:58 PM
    very good morning. my memory is quite good so no need to tell me to recall. many people believe religions are cults. religious people have cultist mentality. it is good to hear that despite you are obsessed with OCD about identity you are not  a cultist as a whole. people like you are exceptions.
    can you tell me why the moderates on this site are using the titles like "truth', "observer", "chalis chor" not in sight now etc?
    as i have said religions offer some goodies in order to shine themselves. similarly tablighi jamat also offer some goodies, otherwise it would have not gathered so many followers. good or bed is quite a different issue.
    can't you be a good person without having a watching deity who tells good and bad. and despite having it they do act of crimes openly and secretly. 
    your demand to reveal the identity is cultist in nature though you may not be that much cultist now. remember you said Mushriks are najis in spirit. it is again a proof of cultist mentality.
    why your God Allah makes evils appear good to people. Is it not a characteristic of cult god.
    "you can't be a true Muslim unless you love me more than your parents, children and relatives" is it not a sign of cultist leader? By rational mohammed yunus - 11/23/2013 10:09:47 PM
  • Dear Qureshi Saheb,

     As-Salaam Alay-Kum

     First of all, you misspelled the word “Sense. It is not “séance.” Terrorist is not “tererist.

     Secondly, what is in a name? A lot. It defines who the person is and it reveals his personal

    character without hiding. Why would any sane Muslim hide his/her identity? Surely, you will agree with me that only those who are involved in illegal and secretive activities will try to hide their names. Isn’t that what one can possibly call a “Common Sense” explanation???

     Thirdly, what Alim are you talking about? What made you come to that conclusion?

     Finally, you are right. We must all use common sense. That can only happen if we try hard

    to debate with our own given name and not use some fictitious name that floats around the cyber space. Hope whatever I am writing make “Sense” to you, Qureshi Saheb. Well, I hope this is your real name!!!

     Have a blessed day. Heads Up & Smile.

     Sincerely yours, - rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org

     Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia,
    what is in name ?
    this world have 20 million mohammed by name.
    some are criminal ,some are tererist,some are human being, some sub-human,some are animal like.
    just use more common seance ten sentiment seance
    jakil & hide ???  use common seance , wisdom then  common intellectuality.
    even two decade ago in your  time more people using common seance . simple understanding.
    going after alim u also lost your self.  
    don't worrying about ALLAH he is almighty &
    all knowledge.
    just use common sence 
    By mohammad qureshi
    - 11/22/2013 11:32:20 PM

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/23/2013 9:48:09 PM
  • Good Morning Rational,

     

    Slowly but surely, the readers of New Age Islam are learning more about your past. Little wonder that you left “Tabligh Jamaat. I bet by the time you left them, you were totally brainwashed. I am sorry to be blunt, but that is what happens when a human goes from one extreme to another.

     

    Do you recall writing to me couple of days ago about my obsession towards the identity of the commentators? You belong to a “Cult, therefore, you practice the art of secrecy. Today, after getting all frustrated by being misled, you are now hell-bent on blaming everything on Muslims and their great religion of Islam.

     

    Well the good news is that you are assisting a person who is running a motivational course for students. I will strongly recommend you to take an active part in “Positive Thinking” in your life. It is quite apparent that your past association with Tablighis was not a pleasant experience after all.

     

    By the way, a man possessing the so-called “Devilish Intentions” will not be engaged in giving a sound advice, or will he? Perhaps, you will start to change your very attitude and stop lashing out at “Moderate Muslims” who follow their religion peacefully.  

     

    May the “One Up In Heaven” bless you. Whoever you now believe in, Mr. Rational? If you don’t, then still blessings are with you from those who wish you well. Need I say more? Be well and keep positive spirit for change. Enough of the negativity, please!

     

    Respectfully yours, - rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/23/2013 9:21:58 PM
  • Dear Ghulam M
    i don't know if the Islam taught by you, mr mohammed yunus is truth. in totality it doesn't represent the Islam we know and Muslim follow or practice. this sufism largely is based on wahdat ul wajood plus some wahdat shahood. I don't find sufism in the Quran as it is known to me. in this way i called Sufism is a deviation from the Islam not from the truth.
    for example after reading some material on ibn e arabi, one is amazed, is it the Islam.
    this truth you call islam can be false too. i hope i made myself clear.

    you can yell me what is the definition of the truth? how can it be found. can the truth you know is truth for others also?
    if i am not sure about the religion, how can make positive comments. yes, i am positive about life in general, make positive statements to improve my and others life in practical. 
    for example i am assisting a person who is running motivational course for students so that they can think positive in the life and prepare themselves for challenges.
    yes i am bitter to religions and participate as critic/malinger in your view  because there is no dearth of inflated positive statements about the religions on this site.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/23/2013 8:12:49 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum


    The convent school boy who turned terror commander

     

    http://www.hindu.com/2010/01/19/stories/2010011960391200.htm

     

    rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/23/2013 3:27:27 PM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

    “A Circle of Hate”

    By Praveen Swami

    Maulana Sufiyan Patangia used to run the Waliullah seminary next to the Lal Masjid - officially called the Hafizi Masjid- in Kalupur in the old city area of Ahmedabad. Now, he is Gujarat's most wanted criminal. Believed to be the head of the massive terrorist cell unearthed during the course of the investigation into Pandya's assassination, Indian intelligence operatives last sighted the cleric in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, in early September.

    For years, Patangia was just another small-time preacher for the Tablighi Jamaat, perhaps the largest Islamic movement in the world. His seminary taught only the Koran, some basic Urdu, and the six principles of Islam as understood by the Tablighi Jamaat's founder, Mohammad Ilyas: kalima, or profession of the faith; the rules and details of the obligatory namazprayer and other rituals; ilm-o-zikr, knowledge of religious principles;ikram-i-Muslim, respect for others of the religious community; tahsih-i-niyyat, purification of one's inherent nature; and tafrigh-i-waqt, volunteering time for the Tablighi Jamaat's core missionary work. Students and the faithful who attended prayers at the Lal Masjid were exhorted to give up frivolities such as television or cinema, and received advice on everything from the clothes they ought to wear, the manner of their beards, and the correct methods of ablution and urination. Like other Tablighi Jamaat clerics, Patangia shunned politics and condemned concern with worldly issues.

    Patangia's seminary thrived, funded generously by Saudi Arabia-based charities the cleric contacted on his biennial Haj and Umrah pilgrimages to Mecca. In the late 1990s, Saudi Arabia was a place of enormous ideological ferment that centred around the presence of troops of the United States there after the first Gulf war. It is possible the contacts Patangia made with Pakistani and West Asian Islamists during his visits began to change his views on the Tablighi Jamaat's quietist approach. After the January 26, 2001, Gujarat earthquake, the cleric for the first time raised funds and mobilised cadre, at a mass level, for relief work in Bhuj. Although clerics in the Lal Masjid insist their work was intended to benefit all victims, irrespective of creed, most journalistic accounts of what went on in Bhuj after the earthquake suggest that religious organisations mainly helped their co-religionists.

    Al Qaeda's bombing of the twin towers in New York on September 11 brought about seismic changes in the Lal Masjid and its seminary. Patangia declared that Islam was in danger and that it was obligatory on all Muslims to resist the U.S.' war on the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. Drawing on a core group from among his earthquake-relief volunteers, Patangia formed an Islamist study cell called the Idara-e-Fadlullah-ul-Muslimeen (Institution of Charity for Muslims). The group monitored the events in Afghanistan, relying mainly on the Internet since its members were forbidden to use the supposedly anti-Islamic medium of television. Tapes of Jaish-e-Mohammad chief Masood Azhar's speeches on the Afghanistan jehadwere also circulated. Patangia, an informed source told Frontline, used to be jokingly called `Mullah Omar', after the Taliban leader. His second-in-command, Suhail Khan, adopted the Osama bin Laden-style headgear, acquiring the nickname ‘Chhota Osama’ (Little Osama) in the process.

    In February 2002, when violence broke out in Gujarat, Patangia was in Saudi Arabia on his regular pilgrimage. He used the opportunity, the CBI and the Gujarat Police say, to seek support from the Pakistan-based Islamist Right. Abdul Bari, a one-time Hyderabad resident who has for several years been a key Lashkar-e-Toiba leader tasked with carrying out terrorist operations in India outside of Jammu and Kashmir, put up Rs.3.75 lakhs to fund Patangia's efforts. Incidentally, the Andhra Pradesh Police believes that Bari's front organisation, the Muslim Defence Force, was behind the attempt to assassinate the religious leader Sathya Sai Baba. The cash, investigators allege, was also used to purchase grenades and crude guns for an abortive attack on a Rath Yatra in July 2002. Bari, ideologically affiliated to the Ahl-e-Hadis sect, soon fell apart with Patangia because of theological differences.

    Kindly continue to read the entire article by clicking on the following link:

    http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=20031024002703500.htm&date=fl2021/&prd=fline&

    Thanks again for reading, I remain

    Very truly yours – rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/23/2013 2:58:37 PM
  • Rational, -

    You say, "in fact i don't know what is truth". If so how do you know, "i think Sufism is a deviation". - If you do not know the truth, how do you know something is a deviation? -  

    You also said, "if Jamat is a slow poison, religion is opium". -  But you never say what you think of attempts to bring moderation and rationality into religion. Is your bitterness so great that you are incapable of making a single positive comment?

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 11/23/2013 1:48:45 PM
  • mr Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/23/2013 9:36:38 AM
    Islam took very short time to spread, should we conclude early Muslims were drug dealers. i have attended some ijtimas, and never found such activity.
    one ijtima was held in my village. the required money and food grain was collected from the villagers. beside that every member in jamat spends his own money and encouraged to do so. i spent some time but never saw such crime. infact some people got rid off some crimes.
    now i am more convinced, here the fight is not about something good, it is just a sectarian war. to sell your ideology which is a deviation, you have some goodies like mr Mohammed yunus and mr ghulam m.

    if Jamat is a slow poison, religion is opium which i think is more dangerous than the poison.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/23/2013 10:09:19 AM
  • dear hats off! - 11/23/2013 2:53:10 AM
    good evening. after reading comments of Mr sultan Shahin and mr Observer, i am convinced there is no truth. i left tablighi jamat long ago and never embraced the Barailviat. i think Sufism is a deviation.
     in fact i don't know what is truth which is spoken so loudly and by everyone. could you please share something about this truth.
    perhaps you may send some gush of fresh air.
    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/23/2013 9:54:06 AM
  • dear Sultan Shahin Sb
    the stuff you brought with great effort is stale. i have read it already. as i have told many times i get never satisfied easily, i read the criticism of the Tablighi Jamat and at the same time criticism of Brailviat in other sources.
    after reading all stuff condemnation of one sect by another sect, no wonder i am away from such stupid faiths of devbandis and barailvis alike.
    at least i don't know the truth. i also think perhaps it is impossible to have one. that's why i think religion is merely politics under the clock of spirituality.
    it is not going to end.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 11/23/2013 9:41:18 AM
  • To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum

     

    The Ultimate Truth

     

    True Islamic View & News

     

    October 6, 2013

     

    This BlogLinked From HereThe Web Tablighi Jamat /The Religous Mafia

     

    Tablighi Jamaat started in India in 1926. And rapidly spread in many countries of the world , its followers are in found Pakistan, India and Bangladesh thousands in number. Tablighi Jamaat is mainly adhere to the Deobandi beliefs infect it preaches the Deobandi beliefs instead of Islam. In Pakistan, it has strong network and its headquarter is located in Raiwind  near Lahore. This group has also strong relations with Talibanization and it supports morally,  religiously, economically and also strong support with manpower to Taliban in Pakistan and other countries. 

    With having simple apparent and innocent-looking, these people are directly or in directly involve in drug dealing, supply of weapons and terrorism in Pakistan. In the annual gathering in Raiwind, hashish, opium and many other drugs are brought from KPK and are supplied to other areas. Religiously this group is against Ehl-e-Sunnat and Pakistani philosophy it has deep roots in every field of Government of Pakistan. Tablighi jamaat is working like termites and that's why some people say that it is slow poison. 

    http://ultimatetruth4u.blogspot.com/2013/10/tablighi-jamat-religous-mafia.html

     

    Kindly read the contents from the blog “ultimatetruth4u” and share your thoughts.

     

    Thanking you in anticipation, I remain

     

    Very respectfully yours – rafiq@thelodhiacenter.org

    By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/23/2013 9:36:38 AM
  • Hats Off,
    So what in your opinion is the solution?
    The governments keep a tab over the movement of funds and are aware of who receives funds from  the Saudis.
    Schools come under the control of a local authority which has the power to approve/disapprove text books used in the schools.
    I suppose that the respective authorities are doing their job and may have taken care of the offensive material in the text books. So this maybe old news
    I am sure that the governments in Europe and North America are not sleeping over the matter.
    We can do something about the growing trend of radicalisation once we free ourselves from trying to pin the blame. The foremost thought should be what needs to be done? The problem that you are discussing has most probably been taken care of. You should be thinking what next instead of recirculating old news for a futile discussion.
    By Observer - 11/23/2013 8:14:09 AM
  • Suhail says, "Because, to the best of my knowledge, All that you, Muhammad Unus Saheb, and other moderate muslims are presneting on this forum  as the real Islam is untruth or half truth." - Your interest seems to be solely in selected Hadiths which you can use to smear Islam with. Doing this in a forum that promotes moderate Islam suggests that moderate and rational trends somehow threaten you.

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 11/23/2013 3:43:35 AM
  • dear mr observer, two issues are eminently scrutinizable here.

    one is the growing radicalization of muslim youth all over the world.

    the second is the money trail which leads to saudi arabia.

    these are undeniable. there is even more.

    the saudi school texts that teach children a clear disliking for kafaars, jews and muslims. the same text is standard syllabus in the thousands of saudi funded mosques attached madarsass in the europe and north america. even these are capable of being objectively scrutinized.

    so if you are uncomfortable with the word wahabism, one should still have some term to describe the mindless, medieval, brutal form of religion they are following in the hejaz and exporting to the rest of the world?
    By hats off! - 11/23/2013 2:53:10 AM
  • Mr. Suhail says, "I am a truth seeker". -
    "His posts indicate that all that he is seeking is different ways to disparage Islam".By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 11/23/2013 
    Because, to the best of my knowledge, All that you, Muhammad Unus Saheb, and other moderate muslims are presneting on this forum  as the real Islam is untruth or half truth.
    By Khalid Suhail - 11/23/2013 1:56:14 AM
  • Mr. Suhail says, "I am a truth seeker". -  His posts indicate that all that he is seeking is different ways to disparage Islam.

    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 11/23/2013 1:20:44 AM
  • Shahin Sb,
     Do you seriously expect me to read all that stuff? Yes, there is enough criticism against the Jamat from the Deobandis and the Ahle Hadith let alone the Barelvis. The Criticism of Ziauddin Sardar is that it is apolitical. The criticism of the hard liners is that it is too much middle of the path. The criticism of some is that it leans too much towards mysticism and Sufism etc etc. 
    If we have to analyse, can we do an objective analysis please? As far as I know they do not prescribe any dress code. The Indians continue to wear Kurta Pyjama, the Pakistanis Pathan suit. The educated continue to wear pants  and those who prefer a lungi wear it. There is no coercion for keeping a beard either although it is emphasized as the sunat of the prophet. I haven't seen them wearing the Arab dress. If there are any, they must have returned from the ME and are putting to good use what they may have brought with them.
    I am not a Jamati nor have I attended any of their gatherings even in a local mosque during the last 35 years. So, I have my personal reasons or likes/dislikes because of which I keep away. At the same time, I realize that I have no objective reason to oppose them. They are like the primary school in a village. Would you deny Muslims who would otherwise not receive any education, the benefit of even a primary school? A village primary school is however too limiting for me and not my cup of tea. However, I would be mad to have it closed down without providing a better alternative. By all means build an alternate more sophisticated and modern Jamat but what is the point in trying to destroy what we have because it does not measure up to our expectations?
    Sardar and Hats Off talk of subtle coercion. Is that not what every marketeer and sales person practice and even a parent or spouse or child? 
    Hats off talked about peer pressure on young children. Peer pressure is the reality of life.
    You and Hats off talk about conformism. That is part of the military, the school, club and every organization.
    You accept all these as normal and even desirable in other contexts but find it unacceptable in the Jamat. So face it, your like or dislike is some personal whim which you are trying to rationalize by giving reasons that do not stand up to an objective scrutiny.
    By Observer - 11/23/2013 12:16:43 AM
  • Dont 
    By truth - 11/23/2013 12:00:16 AM

  • pls. don't
    By sacchai - 11/22/2013 11:54:32 PM
  • please
    By truth - 11/22/2013 11:50:05 PM
  • Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia,
    what is in name ?
    this world have 20 million mohammed by name.
    some are criminal ,some are tererist,some are human being, some sub-human,some are animal like.
    just use more common seance ten sentiment seance
    jakil & hide ???  use common seance , wisdom then  common intellectuality.
    even two decade ago in your  time more people using common seance . simple understanding.
    going after alim u also lost your self.  
    don't worrying about ALLAH he is almighty &
    all knowledge.
    just use common sence 
    By mohammad qureshi - 11/22/2013 11:32:20 PM
  • That makes perfect sense Observer Saheb and I am not accusing Tablighis of preaching violent Takfirism. Their imam’s connection with Hanbali fiqh is well known. Both Ibn-e-Taimiya and Abdul Wahhab, however, were quite eclectic in this matter. As Imam Hanbal himself was not too keen on his followers becoming total muqallids, so emulation has been looked down upon in this tradition. The idea is to do Ijtihad and for this to go to Quran and Hadees, more Hadees than Quran, which they say is beyond an ordinary mortal to decipher. So you find that Quran is not taught in any of our madrasas. Students who have spent up to 13 years in a madrasa, practically any madrasa, do not know a word of Quran. Of course, they can read and some are hafizs as well. But that is not knowing Quran. Except in the last (Arabic hashtum) year of study in Deoband, reports academic and author Saral Jhingran, Quran is not taught anywhere and at any level with meaning. This she finds most surprising for Ahl-e-Hadees madrasas, as by and large, in her view their course is better and more scientificaaly designed. As Ahl-e-Hadeesis are a full-fledged, and most rigid and extremist Wahhabi sect, they do not teach fiqh at all. Deobandis do, but ahl-e-hadeesis make fun of them and call them pink Wahhabis. However, as they do not teach fiqh and say that we should go back to Quran and Hadees rather than to man made laws by these imams, one would have thought, as Jhingran also does, that they would be focused on teaching Quran and Hadees. But they are not. They do teach some Hadees, but their focus is entirely on books by Ibn-e-Taimiya and Abdul Wahhab. No wonder they are ahead of all in creating discord.

    So it’s in the fitness of things that Tablighis do not engage in debates about fiqh. That’s against Wahhabi precepts.

    The amazing thing Observer (Naseer) Saheb is while you go to such great lengths looking for newer and newer ways of creating distractions, why can’t you focus on the fact that Tablighis are weaning Muslims away from their local cultures as well as the global mainstream, turning them into bizarre medieval Arabs. What has a medieval Arab attire got to do with Islam? What is the link? Does God tell us that we can be good Muslims only if we wear Arab dress, eat Arab food, speak their language, and so on? Does God tell us to stay away from our neighbours of other religions and sects? Should we live in exclusive ghettos and not in mixed localities? Should we shun our friendships with local Hindu, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists? Is this in the definition of Taqwa I quoted to you from Quran. Is Quran important or Tablighi Bible, the Fazail-e-Amaal.

    Let me introduce you to the largest publisher of Fazail Amaal.

    The War Within Islam (02 May 2009 NewAgeIslam.Com)

    Out of the frying pan into the fire: Journey from Tableeghi to Ahl-e-Hadeesi

    Special Report by Sajid A Kayum - Dated 29/12/2002

    Based upon an interview by Br. Muhammed Aqil

    THE LARGEST PUBLISHER OF THE FAZAAIL AAMAL (TABLEEGHI NISAAB) MAKES TAWBAH

    In these times of group polarization, ta'assub towards one's madhhab and sectarianism, it is a great blessing for someone to seek guidance and accept the truth, especially, if one's source of livelihood and hard-earned respect are at stake.

    One such fortunate individual is Br. Mohammad Anas, the owner of Idara Ishaat-e-Diniyat - a publishing company that publishes the Fazaail-e-Amaal (also known as the Tableeghi Nisaab) in four languages and other numerous books of the Deobandis.

    The Fazaail Aamaal authored by Moulana Zakariyyah Khandelwi is the book that the Jamaat Tableegh uses to spread its dawah. It is the only book that the Tableeghis allow to be read in their gatherings and a lot of stress is put on reading it regularly to the extent that this book is read by the Tableeghis five times a day after every prayer. This book has in it many false beliefs and baseless stories that have been corrupting people's Aqeedah for half a century.

    Br. Mohammad Anas, the publisher of the Fazaail Aamal, after identifying the vile errors of the Fazaail-e-Amaal, has openly declared his abhorrence towards this book and the Tableeghi-Deobandi nexus that spreads its teachings. He has open-heartedly accepted the way of taking the religion from the Qur'aan and the Sunnah, which is the way of the Ahle Hadees - And All praise is due to Allah.

    DEOBANDI UNEASINESS WITNESSED OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS

    The last few years have seen unprecedented uneasiness in Deobandi circles due to the fact that a large number of people have left the blind-following of individuals and groups and accepted the pure teachings of the Qur'aan and the Sunnah. While formally the Deobandis would simple undermine and brush off the way of the Ahlul-Hadeeth as something that was practically non-existent, they have now come to realize that the Ahlul-Hadeeth are a force to be reckoned with and the pillars of blind-following of elders and extreme partiality towards Madhhabs upon which the school of Deoband is based have weakened considerably.

    DEOBANDISM BETWEEN THE CLAIM AND THE REALITY

    The Deobandis claim to be the people of Tawheed, religious learning, and reformation and the followers of an authoritative Imaam (Imaam abu Haneefah) and thus portray themselves as a legitimate school of thought from the Ahlus-Sunnah which differs at the most on matters of Ijtihad. In reality, however, they have committed great crimes against the religion of Islam by spreading beliefs of shirk and innovations, unreasonably defending of the clear blunders of their elders and making Tahreef to support their madhhab. They have aided the spread of ignorance by organizing a volunteer force of unqualified ignorant people in the name of 'Jamaat Tableegh' and have given them the book "Fazaail Aamal" - which itself is a compilation of baseless stories that invite towards the heresies of Soofism.

    The Deobandis and the Jamaat Tableegh were able to conceal their misguided views successfully and effectively in the Arab world and in the West, while openly calling to them in countries where they have a large following like India, Pakistan and others.

    This has been witnessed the most closely in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia which is both a centre of religious learning and a place where reside a large number of religious minded people, who spend generously to help the Muslims around the world. The Deobandis took full advantage of their good-will and continued to spread their Dawah in secret to the extent that their associates maybe found appointed in many ministerial jobs. A good example is that of the wellknown Moulana Makki, a Deobandi who gives lectures in the Haram of Makkah even to this day. Even the King Fahd press that prints the Holy Qur'aan, published the Deobandi Tafseer as the official urdu Tafseer. [This Tafseer is called Tafseer-e-Usmani where the translation of the verses is by Moulana Mahmood Hasan Deobandi and the commentary is by Maulana Shabbir Ahmed Usmani]. The very introduction to this Tafseer contains references to the deviant belief of Wahdat al-Wajood though not in clear terms. Even the major scholars and muftis of the kingdom had a good opinion of the Deobandis and the Tableeghis.

    THE SCHOLARS REFUTE THE JAMAAT TABLEEGH

    But Al-Hamdulillah the misguidance of the Jamaat Tableegh became clear to some Arab Salafi scholars and they refuted them in their writings. Shaikh Taqiyyudin al-Hilaali (well-known for his translation of the Noble Qur'an published by Dar-us-Salam Publications) wrote a small treatise by the name, Al-Siraaj Al-Muneer fee Tambeeh Jamaat At-Tableegh alaa Akhtaa'ihum and Shaikh at-Tuwaijiri composed the extraordinary book, "Al-Qawl al-Baleegh". Later Shaikh Taalib ur-Rehmaan, a scholar well-known for his debates with the people of Bidaa (innovations) wrote the book, "Ad-Deobandiyyah" in Arabic that further exposed the reality of the Deobandis. The sheikh has another refutation on the Jamaat Tableegh in Arabic that has been published lately. Apart from this there

    are the efforts of many others and may Allah accept all sincere efforts.

    In the Indian subcontinent many scholars have raised awareness about the Jamaat Tableegh after many efforts towards advising them have failed. Some Ahlul-Hadeeth masjid even opened their doors to the Jamaat Tableegh with the intention of co-operation in matters of righteousness and piety and because outwardly the Jamaat Tableegh claim to have no agenda apart from calling the people towards prayer. The Tableeghi have been invited time and again to continue their work but to replace the Fazaail Aamal with authentic Tafseers and collections of authentic Hadeeth, but all such requests have been rejected.

    THE TABLEEGHI DAWAH

    In region where there is general Ignorance of the correct Aqeedah and a strong tradition to put all of ones religious affairs in the hands of a particular moulana, the Jamaat Tableegh speaks in a position of strength and openly calls to misguided views. The Tableeghis know that they can distort the meaning of the Quraanic verses and present to the people in order to deceive them into believing that it is Allah's Will that all true Muslims are bound to the regulations of the "Tableeghi Jamaat" and are expected to unquestionably follow them on their excursions.

    The Tableeghis take pride in being ignorant and ask the other ignorant individuals like them, "to which school or university did the sahabah go to?". They lie upon Allah and the Messenger and justify it saying it is only to encourage the people towards good deeds. They often quote the Quraan as the Hadeeth and vice-versa. Even worse, they quote the sayings of elders and stories and attribute it to the Messenger (salallahu alaihe wa-sallam). Their norm is to mention quraanic verses, fragments of hadeeth, stories and fables, sayings of their elders and karguzaris without distinguishing between them - all along giving the ignorant listener the notion that all of this has come from Allah for the guidance of the people.

    Many Ahlul-Hadeeth scholars have raised awareness about the Jamaat Tableegh through writings and speeches most notably Shaikh Meraj Rabbani, Shaikh Ataa Allah Daerwi and others. And those people who have left Tableeghis

    have exposed them even further.

    As a result many people have accepted the way of the Qur'aan and the Sunnah. This is an additional setback to the Deobandis. It should also be noted that those who accepted the guidance are the educated and enlightened individuals who actually have the ability to research, understand and differentiate between the fact and lies.

    Others who have left this Jamaat are those who migrated to other countries where the Tableeghis do not have a strong hold and the people have had the opportunity to learn about the Book and the Sunnah. In the environment of the Indian sub-continent, the Tableeghis do not allow the common masses to read the Qur'aan and the Sunnah or listen to anyone apart from themselves. This is why I mentioned in the very start of this article that, "in these times of group polarization, ta'assub towards one's madhhab and sectarianism, it is a great blessing for someone to seek guidance and accepts the truth" ANd only he who has been in that environment can truly understand the significance of this.

    THE DEOBANDI REACTION

    The Deobandis have finally realized that they cannot combat the Dawah of the Ahlul-Hadeeth, by merely abusing them or undermining them and that they would have to reply with proofs and quotes and references just like the Ahlulhadeeth refuted them with proofs from the Qur'aan and the Sunnah. The Deobandis therefore, organized a huge nation-wide conference called, 'Tahaffuz-e-Sunnat' in India. This was repeated in a number of other countries. They also published a number of booklets on the subject and each of the doubts in those books has been replied to either in writing or on tape, al-hamdulillah. And we will publish them on out website, www.ahya.org insha'Allah.

    The result of these conferences was that many people were introduced to the Ahlul-Hadeeth and began reading books of Ahlul-Hadeeth scholars either out of curiosity or to refute them and al-hamdulillah this became a means for people to come closer to the truth. The Deobandis, therefore, shot their own selves in the foot because the way of seeking knowledge, analyzing references and sound reasoning can only lead to the truth.

    MUHAMMED ANAS SAHEB - THE OWNER OF IDARA ISHAAT E DINIYAAT

    We ask Allah, the Exalted, to keep Br. Mohammad Anas steadfast upon the truth to which He has guided him. Br Muhammed Anas's interview has been recorded by our dear brother Muhammed Aqil from Jeddah. Brother Aqil has many efforts in the field of dawah on the internet and runs the Hadeeth Egroups.

    In this interview Muhammed Anas Saheb spoke about how he recognized the corruption in the Fazaail Aamal and other Deobandi books. He also spoke about the difficulties in his struggle to seek and follow the Qur'aan and the Sunnah.

    Br Anas specifically mentioned that he found our website www.ahlehadees.comand the tapes of the scholars on it very helpful.

    The Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) said, "If Allah gives guidance to somebody through you, it is better for you than possessing red camels."

    We ask Allah to accept the efforts of all the brothers who contributed and participated in the development of the website whether they are from India, Saudi Arabia, Emirates or Kuwait.

    EXCERPTS FROM THE INTERVIEW

    Brother Muhammed Anas said, "When I needed to know about everyday rulings, I referred back to the hanafi fiqh because that was the environment we were brought up in. So when we referred to those books no references were found in them, just the sayings of some aalim and this seemed to me as if he was saying something from himself and I could not (satisfactorily) accept it. So I began to research because the rulings should be with references to the Hadeeth they are based upon. Thereafter I searched for books and read them, only to find a big difference between rulings of the (hanafi) Maslak (way) and the Quraan and the Sunnah."

    Note: Here the Hanafi Maslak in common language is used to refer to the way which includes the blind following of the later Hanafis, adherence to the school of Deoband and its scholars, and to Maturidism in beliefs.

    … "I am facing a number of difficulties and I ask Allah to grant me steadfastness. Since I have started upon this way (of the book and sunnah) and we stay in a society where the (Deobandi) maslak is followed, everyone looks at me with suspicion (or with dislike) as if I have committed a great crime. I have only tried to learn the Quraan and the Sunnah and to act upon it. My relatives and those who are close to me have turned their faces away from me, except for a few. Even if I try to meet them they speak to me in a strange way and when I got my son married according to the Quraan and the Sunnah in February and did not arrange for the marriage procession and other formalities, my relatives are still angry on me. I only sent a car so that my daughter-in-law could come to the home."

    He mentioned that he heard some Cds which spoke of the Hijaab. "When I heard them tears rolled off my eyes and I began to ponder as to what we had been doing until now, our lives have gone and we have not been able to do anything. After this Al-Hamdulillah we began to implement proper Hijaab in the home as it should be implemented according to the shareeah where the Hijaab is done from the husband’s brothers."

    When brother Aqil asked brother Muhammad Anas about the sources that helped him towards the way of the Quraan and the Sunnah, he mentioned our websitehttp://www.ahlehadees.com and the names of the four scholars, Shaikh Ataa Allah Daerwi, Shaikh Safiur-Rehman Mubarakpuri, Shaikh Meraaj Rabbani (Hafizahumullah) and Shaikh Badiuddeen Rashidi (Rahimahumullah). He said, "I heard their tapes and liked them a lot. Whatever they say, they say in light of the Qur'aan and the Sunnah."

    When asked if he was involved in spreading the true dawah of the Quraan and the Sunnah, he said, "I wish to do a lot so that the wrong things that have spread amongst the people come to an end. To start with I have prepared a list of books that I used to sell in the bookshop (he mentions various books). One of the books I used to keep was Aamaal Quraani (cures from the Quraan) while believing that they were cures from the Quraan and it would not have any (incorrect) statements, but then I heard one of the lectures of Shaikh Meraaj Rabbani (with a quote from the Aamaal Quraani) and I check the copy I had with me, I felt ashamed and very hurt and asked the staff not to sell it at all. Thereafter, I stopped selling the many other books on Soofism that are full of Shirk and Bidah."

    NOTE: It is mentioned in Aamaal-e-Qur'aani, p. 134 by Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi [published by Jasim Book Depot, Urdu Bazaar, Jama Masjid, Delhi] that if a woman has excessive menstrual bleeding, the verse (Surah Al-'Imran: 3:144) should be written on three different pieces of paper, one tied on her right and the other on her left and the third piece of paper with the Qur'aanic verse to be hung below the naval. This verse of the Qur'aan, "Muhammad (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) is no more than a Messenger, and indeed (many) Messengers have passed away before him. If he dies or is killed, will you then turn back on your heels (as disbelievers)? And he who turns back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah, and Allah will give reward to those who are grateful." [Surah Al-'Imran: 3:144]

    Br Aqil : What are the difficulties that you are facing after becoming Ahlehadees"

    Brother Muhammed Anas replied, "When I started to keep those books that are in accordance with the Quraan and the Sunnah, and we are in a society with people of a different view, and on the books is mentioned the word Salafi or there is something else with indicated that the books are of another school of thought - the people do not buy those books. In Delhi there is a center by the name "Allama Ibn Baaz Center" from where I ordered some books since they were good but no one would buy them because the author was Dr Luqmaan "Salafi". These are the problems I faced."

    Br Aqil : Have you accepted the way of the Ahlul-hadeeth alone, or have you family members changed too?

    Brother Muhammed Anas, "My wife, my children al-Hamdulillah pray in accordance with the Quraan and the Sunnah. We also hold a session of 15 minutes to read from books, like we have read from the Book of Salaat by Shaikh Kailani"

    Br Aqil : Earlier you informed me about your daughter and problems faced by her. Are they because of the fact that she has started performing Raf al-Yadain?

    Brother Muhammed Anas, "Yes, what else can it be? They do not consider it (Raf al-Yadain) to be from the Sunnah even though I have shown them proofs. And I gave them photo copies from the books of Maulana Abdul-Hayy Lakhnawi and Imaam Muhammad stating that the Raf al-Yadain is proven and is from Sunnah. But they are so blind in their sight that they cannot understand. How much ever you explain to them, they do not understand"

    Note: Raf al-Yadain is to raise the hand in prayer before the Ruku and after the Ruku. Raf al-Yadain is a Sunnah proven by Mutawathir Ahaadeeth, but because there is extreme following of Madhhabs in the subcontinents, the people are ordered by the Madhhabi ulema to ignore those hadeeth. Often a fiqh issue like Raf al-Yadain serves as a stepping stone towards breaking the barrier of Taqleed and opens the way for correction of other matters of belief and worship.

    Br Aqil : How do you feel having left the way of Shirk and Bidah towards the Straight Path and Tawheed. Is your heart content?

    Brother Muhammed Anas , "Yes, definitely I feel total contentment to the extent that if I were to die today, I have great hope that Allah will have mercy on me. And whatever little I have done to follow the Sunnah will be accepted by Allah. I have complete hope in Allah. I have contentment as clear as a mirror Al-hamdulillah.

    Br Aqil: Since you are mainly dealing with books, has you change affected you business relations and income in any way?

    Brother Muhammed Anas , "Yes, of course. Since I have stopped printing Fazaail-e-Sadaqat and Fazaail-e-Hajj, which I used to print in 4 languages; Urdu, Hind, English French, and they sell a lot, like the Urdu version sells 5,000 copies in 2 months. So, it is effecting my business but I am not bothered about it Allah forbid even if I was to reach the stage of starvation, I would accept that because the eyes have to close and everyone has to die and we have to give account of everything."

    [We ask Allah to bless brother Muhammad Anas in his business and accept his sacrifices]

    Br Aqil : You have seen that the book which you had been selling till now (i.e. the Fazaail Aamal) has many statements of Shirk in it. Somewhere a pious person is receiving knowledge of the unseen, somewhere it is claimed that Allah's Messenger descended from the sky (after his death), somewhere it is said that the hand of Allah's Messenger (sallallahu alaihe wa-sallam) came out of the grave, while somewhere the leaders of the Tableeghi Jamaat hear the reply of their salaam to the Messenger. Now that you know of these deviant beliefs will you continue with the sale of this book in the different languages.

    Brother Muhammed Anas, "No, I consider selling these books a sin. And I say that if I were the sole owner of these books, I would have put them in the sea long back. I would sell something else, but not these books, for now we have stopped Fazaail-e-Sadaqat and Hajj (this is the second part of the Fazaail Aamal and is more deviant than the first) and we plan to stop Fazaail-e-Amal (i.e. the the first part) Insha'Allah."

    Br Aqil : Tell us about Fazaail-e-Amaal since how long have you been printing it and was it you father who initiated the work?

    Brother Muhammed Anas, "My father was the first one to publish this book on off-set printing (since 50 years, they have been printing this book). Initially they were printed as separate booklets like Hiyaakaat-e-Sahabah, Fazaail-e-Namaz, etc. then the booklets were compiled in one volume and then the compilation was named, 'Tableegh-e-Nisaab' It was not named 'Tableegh-e-Nisaab' by Maulana Zakariyah (the author) but it was named as such by my father.Later when some Barelvis objected to it, then its name was changed to 'Fazaail-e-Amaal'

    Br Aqil : In the end, would you like advice those who are still busy in the publishing and selling of the book?

    Brother Muhammed Anas, "I consider the income which comes from the selling and spreading of such books that spoil the Aqeedah is not Halaal. So one should limit himself. There are many books, why not sell authentic books? The stories of parrot and birds, Kabutar Nama (the story of the pigeon) [he is referring to the stories of Khurafaat mentioned by the Soofis in their books as lessons]. When good (authentic) books are available, then these should be spread."

    Br Aqil: Any of your two brother have accepted the way of the Ahlul-Hadeeth?

    Brother Muhammed Anas, "Yes, as I mentioned earlier, my youngest brother who heard the CDs, has begun to perform Raf al-Yadain, He told me, 'Brother if this (Raf al-Yadain) is correct, then why be afraid of following it while it is proved from the Messenger of Allah and is a Sunnah? And he (Allah's Messengers) has practiced it until his death." So, I started (the Raful-Yadain) for he was on the truth'

    Br Aqil : What message would you like to send to the people of Jamaat Tableegh so as to assist them in seeking the truth?

    Brother Muhammed Anas, "It is the duty on every person to seek the teachings of the Qur'aan and the Sunnah and analyze whether their actions are in accordance with the Qur'aan and the Sunnah. This is a general message for everybody."

    Br Aqil: would you like to convey something to the Ulema of Deoband who compile and spread such books like the book of Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi - Aamaal-e-Quraanin?

    Brother Muhammed Anas, "Yes, Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi is the author of Aamaal-e-Quraani. But it is not sure whether this book was later attributed to him or he has himself written such things. Allah known best but what I found in them were completely against the Qur'aan and the Sunnah so I have stopped selling it."

    Br Aqil : It was surely not attributed to him later for if it was later attributed to Maulan Ashraf Ali Thanwi then the Ulama of Deoband would have pointed to the statements have been (incorrectly) attributed to the Maulana but the Ulama of Deoband have always supported it so it is not incorrectly attributed to Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanwi but it is his own book."

    Brother Muhammed Anas, "I was astonished when I read Hikayat-e-Awliya, which is also known as 'Arwah e-Thalatha. In all there are 60-70 books which I have stopped printing and selling."

    Br Aqil : Have you seen 'Tareekh-e-Mashaaikh-e-Chist' by Maulana Zakariyah?

    Brother Muhammed Anas, "I have stopped any orders for that book also. I have also prepared some literature which points towards all such matters in those books. If someone informs me of any such reference, I personally analyze it and if I find anything incorrect I discard it."

    Br Aqil : The authors of such books from the Ulama of Deoband and the Barelvis, their blind-following does not allow them to return to the Qur'aan and the Sunnah, and even after knowing the truth they do not propagate it. What would you advice them?