Dear Naseer Saheb Observer. All you say about Barailvism may
indeed be true, some I know myself
to be true. But Sufi shrines and Barailwi visitors to the shrines in the
sub-continent and spiritually inclined peaceful Muslims everywhere are under
attack. Saying that peaceful victims are also bad people is no defence of the
terrorist. It is only an attempt by you, as usual, to divert the issue.
one thing that we learn from you is that Wahhabi-Salafi extremism cannot be
defended. There is no defence. Saying, as you and Mohd Younus Rational keep
saying, that victims of Islamic terrorism are also bad people, given the
opportunity they will also kill, does not exonerate the Islamist killers and
destroyers of Sufi shrines and Islamist heritage.
Mr Sultan Shahin,
The myth of tolerance
among the Barelvis was exposed long ago when Ahmad Reza Barelvi, the founder of
this sect and his supporters did not participate in non-co-operation movement
against the British on the plea that it was led by a Hindu leader Mahatma
Gandhi. Pronouncing a fatwa he not only denounced the Deobandis as Kafirs and
condemned them for accepting the leadership of a Hindu leader during freedom
movement but also criticised those Muslims who joined hands with Kafirs
(non-believers) even if it was for attaining Islamic objectives. His fatwa
warned the Muslims neither to attend to the ailing non-Muslims nor to
participate in their funerals.
As a foremost campaigner
of Sufism, Ahmad Reza was also responsible for bringing the Indian Muslims into
conflict with the Hindus by providing the theoretical basis for asserting a
separate national identity in support of two-nation theory. It was the joint
effort of the Barelvis and the Muslim Leaguers who spearheaded a movement for
creation of a separate state of Pakistan for the Muslims.
A fact not to be missed is that except
Deobandis, all the other Islamic sects in Indian sub-continent like Barelvis,
Shias, Ismailis and Ahmadias joined the Muslim League and strongly supported
But a review of the
history of Pakistan movement suggests that majority of the All India Muslim
League leaders from Bihar, Bengal, Uttar Pradesh and the erstwhile undivided
Bombay state who were from elite section of the community belonged to the
Barelvi Sect. After partition they migrated to Karachi, the then capital of
Pakistan and Barelvis still constitute the single ethnic majority in this city.
It equally represents
religious orthodoxy and share most of the perspectives of terrorism and want to
establish Islamic political order as articulated by them.
By the middle of
nineteenth century the central authority of Islamic power in Delhi became weak
and a sizeable section of Ulema took advantage of the Sepoy Revolt of 1857 and
tried to turn it into Jihad which was crushed by the British. Another section
of Ulema particularly the parental family of Ahmad Riza Khan and their clan
remained aloof from this Jihad. The British exploited the situation and remained
soft towards the followers of Ahmad Riza Khan.
Barelvis have an
unrelenting aversion to the Deobandis and Deobandi-aligned movements such as
the Nadwat al-Ulema, the Tablighi Jamaat and Jamaat-e-Islami.
If Pakistan which is
dominated by Barelvi sunnis is the epicenter of terrorism, then who is
responsible but the Barelvis who dominate both politics, army and the
Who are in the forefront
of blasphemy cases to harrass the minorities in Pakistan? The Barelvis of
course. Who are in the forefront in the abduction and forced conversions of
Hindu girls? The Sufi/Barelvis.
From temple to shrine:
Formation of the Sunni
Pir Ilyas Qadri's
reluctance to adopt violence against Deobandi jihadi groups led to a
mini-rebellion among his followers, particularly those who had studied at
Barelvi madrassahs. Consequently, a small group led by Saleem Qadri founded the
Sunni Tehrik in 1990. Saleem Qadri wanted to meet Deobandi violence with more
violence, as Pir Ilyas Qadri's "non-violence was not taking the Barelvis
anywhere." However, Saleem Qadri
did not break his religious allegiance to Pir Ilyas Qadri even after leaving
his group, nor did he ask his followers to break links with the Dawat-e-Islami.
This approach worked and soon the ranks of the Sunni Tehrik swelled. The
membership of the Dawat-e-Islami and the Sunni Tehrik also overlaps at the
lower levels with several other Barelvi groups.
The Jamaat Ahle Sunnat
Challenges the Military's Pro-Jihad Policies
Saleem Qadri had played
an important role in radicalizing the Barelvi youth, though neither he nor his
spiritual leader, Pir Ilyas Qadri, were able to provide effective leadership to
the ever growing numbers of restless Barelvi youth. This leadership was
eventually provided by the hitherto dormant Jamaat Ahle Sunnat, the religious
party of the Ahle Sunnat ulema. Dawat-e-Islami and the Sunni Tehrik had played
an important part in reviving the Jamaat Ahle Sunnat, which held a convention
in Multan on April 1-2, 2000. It was the biggest gathering of Barelvi groups in
more than a century. The convention was very critical of the Pakistani
military's pro-jihad policy and support to Deobandi groups. In his speech,
Jamaat leader Syed Riaz Hussain Shah came down hard on the military, saying:
"If the civil war in Kashmir is the right policy, the government must
involve all the Muslims in it. It will be dangerous, as is becoming evident, to
arm only a few sects [such as the Deobandis]." However, the most important thing was that the
Jamaat Ahle Sunnat had adopted the Sunni Tehrik narrative of a forceful defense
of Barelvi interests as its own. The Jamaat Ahle Sunnat emerged much stronger
after the convention and began to play a major part in the country's Islamist
The first opportunity
for the Jamaat Ahle Sunnat to show its strength came in the fall of 2005, when
Denmark's Jyllands-Posten newspaper published 12 cartoons depicting the Prophet
of Islam as a terrorist. The cartoons created anger among Muslims across the
world. The fiercest demonstrations took place in Pakistan, where the Jamaat
Ahle Sunnat and other Barelvi groups (including Dawat-e-Islami and the Sunni
Tehrik), remained in the forefront of the demonstrations and sustained them for
months. Every time the government indicated its intention of amending the
blasphemy laws, the Islamists descended to the streets with a vengeance. Again,
each time the Jamaat Ahle Sunnat and other Barelvi groups were in the forefront
of the protests. The Jamaat Ahle Sunnat also led demonstrations against the
release of Aasia Bibi, an illiterate Christian farm worker and mother of five
who was accused of committing an act of blasphemy (insulting the Prophet
Muhammad) and sentenced to death by a lower court based on the evidence of her
Although the Barelvis
are the majority Muslim sect in Pakistan and in South Asia, Pakistan's
Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), under Saudi pressure, did not allow them to
take part in the Afghan jihad. When the jihad in Afghanistan started in 1980,
the Saudis agreed to match American donations dollar for dollar, but also made
sure that the Barelvis and
Shias were kept out of the jihad although the Barelvis are more hardline than the
Deobandis in many respects. However, the Barelvis show their street
muscle through their numerical strength. The groups discussed in this article
make up the backbone of the growing Barelvi/Sufi extremism in Pakistan. While
the Dawat-e-Islami prepares the masses and the Sunni Tehrik counters violence
from Deobandi and Ahle Hadith groups with more violence, the Jamaat Ahle Sunnat
dominates the street with its madrassah-educated cadres to promote Sufi
Islamism. The assassination of Governor Salman Taseer shows that Sufi Islamism
can be a bulwark against or an alternative to Deobandi and Ahle Hadith jihadism
but it is in its own way as great a threat to international security as the
militancy of the Deobandi and Ahle Hadith movements.
Only the non-Barelvi scholars are known to take principled stands
It was the Jamate Islami
leader Maulana Mududi who refused to sanctify the incursions in Kashmir in 1948
with a fatwa of Jehad. He again refused to issue a fatwa of Jehad to support
the war in 1965 for which he went to prison and was tried for 'sedition'. Similarly,
several Deobandi ulema refused to issue of fatwa of jehad even for the war against
the Russians in Afghanistan since there was no official declaration of war. Not
one Barelvi/Sufi ulema took a similar principled stand. If they were kept out
of the `jehad’ in Afghanistan, it was because of Saudi Arabia and not because
of any reluctance on the part of the Barelvis who were only too eager to join and who agitated and got a piece of the action in Kashmir.
Dear Sultan Shahin
Some moderate Muslims influenced by Christian views on sex in
which sex is dirty are disturbed by the quoting hadith related to sexual behavior
of the prophet. These Muslims have no guts to call spade a spade instead they
accuse, malign, insult, demand ban, advocate penalty for apostasy just for
quoting from the authentic sources of the Islam Those Imams who collected, wrote,
distributed and earned huge profit are revered by all Muslims including moderates.
Most of the Muslims don't consider these ahadith pornographic otherwise how
could they be read for blessings.
Only God may know (if he exists and posses the knowledge he
is attributed with) what are the true intentions of people including you. All
evils are done in the garb of goodness. All wars (including Islamic and
unislamic) are fought with good intentions.
Muslims went for jihad to save and propagate Islam (is there
any doubt in the nobility of the cause?) and Christians went for crusades to
save Christianity and their lands (is there any doubt in the nobility of
Naseer Saheb observer loves calling me sectarian. I usually ignore his vile
attacks as well as his foul language, though it has forced some people to stop
posting comments for fear of becoming his target. . [Before leaving the site,
they wrote to me demanding a ban on Naseer Saheb's postings ad incidentally,
also of Mohd Younus Rational. But banning is not my policy Our own website
remains banned in Pakistan yet.]
However, while most readers know my position, I must reiterate my stand for
the new readers.
I am conscious of the myriad ills of
Barailwis. But if they are not violent and I say they are not violent, that cannot mean I have joined or am
propagating their sectarian ideas. Perhaps there is not one article supporting Barailwi ideology on this site. A lot of
intellectual violence and gender injustice is inherent in Barailwi ideology
too, for instance, on the issue of apostasy. All Indian subcontinent's Muslims
used be Sufi-Barailwi at one time. Then gradually, with growing Saudi
influence, following the setting up of the Wahhabi kingdom earlier last
century, things started changing. Now perhaps few Barailwis are left as far as
their mindset is concerned. Many still go to shrines and say Aameen
quietly but in their thinking they too have become largely Wahhabis.
It is Sufis who brought Islam to the sub-continent, not Wahhabis. Under Sufi
influence, Muslims lived peacefully for centuries. Plunderers ad looters came
and went but peace and amity largely prevailed, of course, thanks also to the
large-heartedness and broad-mindedness of the local population which did not
mind if their neighbours converted to Islam. Unlike Muslims who would kill the
people they call apostates, Hindus accepted plurality of religion in
its true spirit.
Sufi saints too had a similar temperament of pluralism and harmonious
co-existence. It's Wahhabis who have changed all that. India is still largely
safe, but one can see things changing here too very fast. If opposing Wahhabi
ideology of Islam-supremacism, exclusivism, intolerance of other religions,
etc. means being called names like sectarian or whatever, then so be it.
This does not mean that other sects of Islam do not have these and other vices.
But you oppose those first who challenge you, threaten to kill you, threaten to
destroy your way of life, destroy peace of the world. Hence the opposition here
to violent Takfiri-Salafi-Wahhabi-ahl-e-Hadeesi ideologies.
Barailwi ideology needs reform, but Wahhabi ideology needs to be fought.
The viciousness of an Islamist mind is truly unbelievable. And this after almost three months of fasting and longer durations of prayer in this holy month of Ramazan.
Well, I shouldn't be surprised. After all, Islamists elsewhere continue to kill and maim and rape and enslave other Muslims in this holy month meant for training oneself in piety, self-sacrifice.
That's why I recommend a serious dose of introspection for all Muslims.
To: All Respected Readers on the “New Age Islam” forum.
“Save Muslim Youths” from “The Bearded Nomads.”
are trotting the globe dressed in Islamic garb who are extremely busy making Muslims
only be aware of his/her ritual duties and the hell with all the worldly
wonder that Islam is the target of so many enemies (?). It is more than obvious
that the “Tablighi
Jamaat” have been
highly unsuccessful in making Muslims intelligent enough to defend the religion
of Islam on the world stage. They are a least bit bothered with anything that
surrounds them. No one knows the whereabouts of their secret leadership and no
one even dare ask that question either. It will remain mysterious till the
doomsday, my fellow Muslims.
friend of mine told me today that if any missionary outfit becomes “Aqkal Ka Dushman” then all of their followers are doomed. We are witnessing one
right here on this forum all riled up against Islam, and the other continue to
praise the so-called noble works of “Tablighi Jamaat” with no end in sight. Of course, we all have to respect everyone’s
viewpoints. My only curiosity is that, “Do these people read in between the
lines?” May be as the followers, they are also totally brainwashed too? Who
Again, my polite reminder is to “Save Muslim Youths” from “The Bearded Nomads.”
Thanks again for reading, I remain
Very respectfully yours,
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia
To: All Respected Readers of the “New Age Islam” forum.
Here is what respected
Yoginder Sikand wrote in Series No. 5 of his article on “Tablighi Jamaat” dated April
Meo youth is routine in the Meo press. In the pages of the New Meo Times hardly
ever does one come across mention of Meo youth actively participating in
tabligh and other religious activities. Some elderly Meos readily admit that
they sometimes have to force their sons to travel on tabligh much against their
According to one informant, from time to time instructions are received from
the TJ headquarters calling for a certain minimum number of men from each
village to go out on tabligh. In some cases there seem to be no volunteers and
so the village elders simply get together and decide on their own who should be
made to join the jama'at. In this way, sometimes people are forced by social
pressure to go on jama'at.
On their part, many young Meos are now beginning to
complain that the TJ is far too ritualistic, other-worldly and neglectful of
the real world concerns of their impoverished community. According to a Meo
college student, it is now often the case that people who know little about
Islam but have participated in a jama'at presume that they know more than the
'ulama themselves and start to raise objections to such small, inconsequential
matters as wearing western clothes, shaving off the beard, sending girls to
co-educational schools and even to men urinating while standing—all of these
being grossly 'un-Islamic' for them. Because of this, he says, growing numbers
of younger generation Meos are simply losing interest in the TJ.
many young Meos today, the attitude and behaviour of TJ activists is not just
wrong in a general sense, but, above all, un-Islamic as well. A Meo student
pursuing his doctoral studies in Islam at Delhi's Jami'a Millia Islamia says:
division that Tablighi activists make between din and duniya is itself
un-Islamic, for in Islam, the sphere of life is part of the din. They see the din as lying simply in prayers and fasting and going on
tabligh tours, the rest being duniya, and these two are perceived as
fundamentally opposed to each other. That is why they do not pay any attention
to the worldly concerns of the Meos, dismissing them as duniyavi. In fact, I have
often heard Tablighi maulvis in Mewat lament in their lectures the little
economic progress that we have experienced, saying that when we were poor and
nearly starving we were very pious Muslims, but that today because we are a
little more comfortably off we have forgotten God. This attitude of the maulvis
is something that many educated Meos resent today. Undoubtedly, this has caused
a growing disillusionment with the movement on their part.””
Click on the link: http://twocircles.net/2010apr27/tablighi_jamaat_mewat_part_5.html
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia
Confused Rational Pseudo,
Do you have any
you are so proud to let your friends and colleagues call you by the name
“Mohammed Younus,” then at least be respectful of your good name which was
given by your beloved grandmother.
You can call me imbecile
or by any other name you desire, but you simply cannot change your own name,
that is, “Mohammed.” If you continue to hang on to this particular name, then
why do you keep ranting and raving about how bad is Islam and our Prophet of
Don’t talk about Butcher
Idi. He was given refuge in the Holy Land of Saudi Arabia. He did died there as
a peaceful resident. Muslim leaders loves to forgive sins of the evildoers.
That is what they do best? What else is new?
One more thing, imbecile
is a person whose mental acumen is well below par. Why not raise yours, and in
turn, I will try my best to raise mine too. Happy now, Mr. Rational Pseudo.
Kindly have mercy on the “Moderate Muslims.” This is just a small request of
this humble Musalmaan.
By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia
- 11/24/2013 12:06:31 PM
out of “The Twilight
Mr. S. Jeelani has raised some pertinent questions and you ought to show some
courage to answer them in an intelligent manner.
can count me out, as I am not fit to debate with an “Intellectually Dishonest” Islamic scholar. As for Pseudo Rational, he can
yell and scream, as I am not going to answer him at all.
do not think that the “India’s Muslim
all the jibber jabber from Islamic scholars who continue to live in the 7th
century. I say, “Leave The Muslim Youths Alone.” They do not need any interference from none of the “Dimwits” that
belongs to the “Tablighi Jamaat” or from those who falsely praise the
missionary outfit as the greatest thing that ever happened in the Islamic
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia
your written statement as follows:
I am not a Jamati nor
have I attended any of their gatherings even in a local mosque during the last
35 years. So, I have my personal reasons or likes/dislikes because of which I
keep away. At the same time, I realize that I have no objective reason to
oppose them. They are like the primary school in a village.
Would you deny Muslims who would otherwise not receive any education, the
benefit of even a primary school? A village primary school is however too
limiting for me and not my cup of tea. However, I would be mad to have it
closed down without providing a better alternative. By all means build an
alternate more sophisticated and modern Jamat but what is the point in trying
to destroy what we have because it does not measure up to our expectations?
If the “Tablighi
Jamaat” is like a “Primary School” in a village, then what on earth made you to compare
the greatness of this missionary outfit with companies such as, General
Electric? Are you out of your mind, Sir!
Welch would have never hired any of the students from this great primary school
as they are nothing but a bunch of “Dimwits” who
stopped using their intelligence as they continue to remain focused in dressing
themselves in Islamic garb to float around the globe preaching the message of
Islam. Hell with family members as their personal salvation is much more
important than anything else. Are you going to entrust those “Thoughtless
Devotees” to revamp the Islamic brand?
Ahmed Saheb, now be fair to analyze what you posted on November 25, 2013. It is
Creating a distinctive
identity in the commercial world is about creating a brand on which firms spend
enormous amounts. Cadburys is a brand that has become synonymous with
chocolates, Apple with electronics etc etc.
Identity, branding etc
play a very important, useful and positive role. I have not seen anyone decry
identity and separateness so much as the educated and modern Muslims who are so
embarrassed by their Muslim identity, that they would like to lose it
There is however nothing
evil about creating a separate identity and taking pride in it. Pride and shame
are what propel people to excel.
The positive approach
would be to improve the branding and image of our religion rather than lose our
identity from shame.
not forget that one of the students dropped out and now has a “Personal
Vendetta” against Islam and our
Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him). What have you been observing, Mr.
S. Jeelani was absolutely right in pointing out two hard facts which you
conveniently cannot answer up until this very day. Forget about what you call “Dimwit,”
“Ultimate Scavenger” or “Fanatic Islamophobe.” Mr. Jeelani
deserves an intellectual answer from Islamic scholars like you.
dear mr observer, two issues are
eminently scrutinizable here.
one is the growing radicalization of muslim youth all
over the world.
the second is the money trail which leads to saudi
these are undeniable. there is even more.
the saudi school texts that teach children a clear disliking for kafaars, jews
and muslims. the same text is standard syllabus in the thousands of saudi
funded mosques attached madarsass in the europe and north america. even these
are capable of being objectively scrutinized.
so if you are uncomfortable with the word wahabism, one should still have some
term to describe the mindless, medieval, brutal form of religion they are
following in the hejaz and exporting to the rest of the world?
By hats off! - 11/23/2013 2:53:10 AM
is even more wrote Mr. S. Jeelani. Yes, he is right and that is what I tried to
do on this particular thread. You were not “Observing” Mr. Observer as you were carried
away by your ego to continue to defend your “Tablighi Jamaat.”
go by another screen name “Mr. Observer.” Did you observed that I
stopped expressing “As-Salaam Alay-Kum” to you, and even stopped using
the word “Respected.” All because of your very statement as follows:
Please do not use 'Respected' and
pleasantries when your post is rude. It only shows that you are a
hypocrite. You remind me of the character Uriah Heep in the novel David
copper field. By Observer -
11/25/2013 12:54:45 AM
only this, you used another nickname to describe my character aside from “Dimwit.”
Your post on the "ultimate truth" is the
"ultimate shit" and shows you to be the "ultimate
scavenger". Can you not even
choose a proper source?
Now what else is there in your Islamic learning to hit me with another
one of the names? If you want to feel good about winning an argument then be
happy and contented. You do not have to answer this post, but I sure will try
to educate my fellow Muslims and the readers on this forum as well.
Thank Heavens that I did not join “Tablighi
Jamaat,” or else, I will
wind up as a mental case too. By the way, for the “Dimwit,” I still call you “Saheb.”
Praise be to Almighty Allah for bestowing upon me a little wisdom to show respect
to my fellow Muslims.
Naseer Ahmed Saheb – On November 13, 2013 it was Ajoy Ashirwad
Mahaprashasta who wrote as follows:
The phenomenal rise of two Wahhabi groups, Tablighi
Jamaat and Ahle-Hadith, in the past five years is noteworthy. Tablighi Jamaat has been growing stronger, especially in
Madhya Pradesh, Maharashtra, Kerala, Uttar Pradesh and Gujarat. This group is
trying to appropriate the syncretic culture of “Aalmi Tablighi Ijtema” (world
conference held in Bhopal), which attracts at least 10 lakhs of the faithful
every year. Tablighi Jamaat wants to hold similar Ijtema in Raipur
(Chhattisgarh) and Hyderabad. Tablighis reportedly also control the All India
Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB) and most Waqf boards. Its members visit
villages and hold congregations of local Muslims and propagate the group’s
six-point programme. The six tenets are: Kalimah, which teaches Muslims to
follow only Allah and no other God; Salat, which stresses the need to pray five
times a day; Ilm and zikr, which invoke the Hadith; Ikram-e-Muslim, which stresses the need to respect other
Muslims; and Dawah, which
urges every Muslim to live according to the Islamic virtues practiced by the
Prophet. Apart from this, the Jamaat encourages its followers to go on Khuruj,
a conversion tour.
Such hard-line teaching is also preached by the Ahle-Hadith,
which denounces all other traditions of Islam and claims to follow true Islam.
It invokes Hadith, accompanied by the Quran, and is strictly opposed to the
Sufi tradition. Both these groups promote a minimalistic lifestyle and irreverence
towards other cultures.
while Ajoy Ashirwad Mahaprashasta Ajoy
reminded all the “Tableeghis” like you and Pseudo Rational about “Ikram-e-Muslim” which stresses the need to respect other Muslims,
but with your usual arrogance you remained disrespectful through and through.
Now, what greatness of character the “Tableeghis” are you talking about, Naseer Ahmed
Saheb? Pseudo Rational gave up and declared himself as “An Apostate,” whilst
you are busy claiming victory over a debate which you cannot even win on
account of proving yourself right all the time.
shows all the characteristics of a fanatic Islamophobe.” That’s a great verdict from a
man who continues to call his favorite “Tablighi Jamaat” one
of the greatest missionary outfits that ever existed and continue to exist on
this planet Earth. Readers should ponder about the severe lack of judgment on
part of Naseer Ahmed and/or Mr. Observer.
Saheb – Ninety days lapsed and you remain still adamant in your views about “TJ.”
To All Respected Readers on “New Age
Mr. Observer wrote: A Tabligh also
has a religious identity besides national and language and all other
identities. They wear their national dress, speak their own language and the
religious identity come from beard and head covering.
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s response: Does Mr.
Observer knows that the Chinese, Mongolians, Siberians nor those living in the
Eskimo land cannot grow beard?
Mr. Observer wrote: Creating an
identity does mean the people are intolerant about others. A Rotarian is not
intolerant of a Lion but a Rotarian will attend a Rotary club and a Lion his
own club and each will wear the badge of their club.
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s response: Creating any sort of
identity with strict dress codes, beards, hijabs and following another book
instead of Holy Quran should classify that particular religious organization to
belong to what we call in the civilized world, as a “Cult.”
Mr. Observer wrote: Creating a
distinctive identity in the commercial world is about creating a brand on which
firms spend enormous amounts. Cadburys is a brand that has become synonymous
with chocolates, Apple with electronics, etc, etc.
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s response: Bonvita and
iPhone are branded products sold to all humankind. It does not have a religious
Mr. Observer wrote: Identity,
branding etc play a very important, useful and positive role. I have not seen
anyone decry identity and separateness so much as the educated and modern
Muslims who are so embarrassed by their Muslim identity, that they would like
to lose it completely.
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s response: Muslims are not
embarrassed by Muslims’ identities. They are most definitely embarrassed by
their repulsive character, especially, of those who dress like Holy Men and
does his “Tablighi” works without caring for their sick parents or their
The positive approach would be to improve the branding and image of our
religion rather than lose our identity from shame.
Rafiq Lodhia’s response: Improving the image of Islam means to get out of the “Ghetto
Thinking.” In other words, the mindset which applauds and endorses all the
immoral acts and encourages criminal worshipping must be permanently shunned.
“Tabligh Jamaat” is now under the radar of the U.S. Government agencies. Only because of
Muslims like Mr. Observer, the future generation of Muslim youths are going to
confront an uphill battle in their lives. Mr. Observer is merely speeding up
the process by not taking into account the ground reality.
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia - 11/25/2013 10:05:17 PM
Ahmed Saheb – Here is the wisdom of Ghulam Mohiyuddin Saheb:
In my experience Tablighi Jamaat is most attractive to
those Muslims who put great value on ritualism and great emphasis on Muslim
identity. It is least attractive to those Muslims who put great value on
inclusivism and free thought.
Mohiyuddin - 11/25/2013 4:12:10 PM
Naseer Ahmed Saheb – Surely, you will disagree with
everything other commentators have stated on this particular thread, and even
with the “Editor” of the forum too.
“The movement had started because Maulana Ilyas had
felt that the Muslims of Mewat (an area close to Delhi) were too well
integrated with their Hindu neighbours. Mewati Muslims looked and behaved too
much like Hindus for his comfort. No
wonder the Wahhabi-Saudi state sends several planeloads of Tableeghi preachers
almost everyday from Jeddah to far corners of the world to help them colonise
Muslim minds, impose medieval Arab culture on them. Millions of petrodollars
are spent in putting together large conferences to be attended by millions in
different parts of the world. Tablighi Jamaat claim to be
apolitical, but is preaching exclusivism and distancing Muslims from their
non-Muslim neighbours, virtually acting as Saudi colonial agents, not politics?”
Shahin - 11/21/2013 5:16:01 PM
Ahmed Saheb, Please reflect and ponder over the comments by Mr. S. Jeelani as follows:
mr observer, though the jamaat might be absolutely apolitical, it is a
coercive, clan like association where the loyalty is to the tableegh.
know of two cases personally where these people (called jamati in these parts)
have successfully mounted social, family and business related pressure on two
luke warm muslims. what the jamatis do not realize is that they have simply
made hypocrites out of honest men.
anothrt fiend told me after his elder son has fallen in with the 'jamatis',
that the boy is always going away without saying where. also he insists that
his mother wear the hijab and head scarf even at home. this
is what his father had to say "once these jamatis get your sons, they are
no more your's."
the issue with coercive strategies for 'enforcing' dress
codes, personal behavior, fasting in ramjan, mosque attendance, insisting on
islamic speech are all very much in practice by the foot warriors of this
clannish association. this is the foundry where the heart is hardened, pleasure
is derived from harshness, demeanor becomes severe, trials and tribulations are
welcomed and thought gets frozen.
whether this directly leads to extremist violence or not, it certainly leads to
extremism in personal opinions, behaviors and unreasonable expectations from
this is pure exclusivism.
above all, this results in a withdrawal from the secular
mainstream. this can in no way be praiseworthy. it is to be deprecated by all
off! - 11/21/2013 3:27:40 AM
it is scholars like you who keep on covering the sins of those Muslims who deviated
from the Holy Quran. Not only this, you call the missionary outfit like “Tablighi
Jamaat” the greatest thing that ever happened to the Islamic world.
cannot debate with a scholar who is absolutely brainwashed. If you continue to keep
on defending, then all of our fellow humans will continue to ask us questions.
Then the simplest attack scholars like you will have, is to label all of them as
do not want to read any reports, you do not want to listen to another Islamic
scholar, you do not want to listen to important YouTube links. This reminds of a saying, “Do not confused me with facts, I have
got my mind made up.” Go ahead and run
away from facing the harsh reality. What else can scholars like you offer to
the Muslim youths? Nothing but to join the bandwagon of “Tablighi Jamaat,” abandon their family and go for a royal ride with
a man-made book called “Faizal-e-Aamal” in their hands.
now, I remain speechless and do not wish to continue with you on this subject matter.
You can call me any names you want to, however, I will not change my views
about your missionary outfit which is nothing but a secretive “Cult”
the readers on this forum recognized you as an Islamic scholar. Why are you
asking this “Dimwit” to define the greatness? Why don’t you explain to
all of us?
do the needful and oblige.
January 26, 2010, James Delinpole wrote as follows:
Tablighi Jamaat isn't explicitly involved in terrorism, it's viewed by
intelligence services as a gateway organization. A senior FBI official once
described it as "a recruiting ground for Al Qaeda" and the French
secret services called it "the antechamber for fundamentalism." A
disturbing number of its adherents have gone on to do very bad things. Among its alumni are shoe bomber
Richard Reid, white American jihadist John Walker Lindh, spree killer John
Allen Muhammad, and dirty bomb plotter Jose Padilla.
The reason we know so little about it is because that is TJ's policy. It
communicates with its members only by word of mouth, meaning that there are no
propaganda journals or incriminating websites which might reveal its goals and
scare the liberal useful idiots.
this the “Greatness” you are talking about, Naseer Saheb?
Mr Lodhia, unless we
agree on a definition of greatness, you will go on and on like a crazed fanatic
repeating yourself "list all the “Greatness” of
the “Tablighi Jamaat!!!”
don’t be afraid, calm yourself down and make an attempt to define if not GE,
then any other organization that you consider great, and list the reasons or
simply give your definition of greatness.
Success” of what? Does the long
bearded young Muslims travelling around the globe make you a very happy Muslim
or what is it? What success are you talking about? Have any one of the Tableeghis
turned out to be a great leader of a Muslim nation.
crying out loud, do not talk about General Electric, Apple, Coca Cola or Boeing.
Those companies are not run by the so-called “Dimwits.” They are run by young men and
women who graduated with college degree and are proud to be part of a company.
you call “Tablighi
Jamaat” a great success, then
show me how and where they have achieved it? Why are you having so much
difficulty? No Naseer Saheb, I do have not have any difficulty in understanding.
It is you who have a problem in comprehending what I am trying to relay to you.
ALL THE GREATNESS OF TABLIGHI JAMAAT. WHY ARE YOU SO AFRAID? THE HELL WITH THE
AQEEDAH. READ WHAT I AM WRITING, MR. OBSERVER?
have been repeatedly asking you to list all the “Greatness” of the “Tablighi Jamaat.” What don’t you understand?
If you cannot recognize greatness and express
appreciation for it …… then
whining, please. Share the details of greatness with the rest of the readers.
Forget the peaceful nature. You are only observing, but not reading what is
happening inside the Jamaat. Your hollow praise about the greatness is all too
visible. You cannot back up your claim. What a shame?
said this, you simply do not want to hear any constructive criticism of your
favorite missionary outfit. That’s exactly where your problem lies whether you
like to hear it or not, Mr. Observer or Naseer Ahmed or whoever.
want to know what is a downright dirty comment? Read what Pseudo Rational wrote
in his response to me.
you tell me what is wrong with your head given that we all know what is wrong
with his. Where did he learn to be so abusive? You know for fact that he admits
that it was his days with “Tablighi Jamaat” that messed up his brains.
up, Naseer Saheb. There will be millions more young Muslims who will turn just
like another Pseudo Rational. Enough of your continuous bragging about a
missionary outfit run by “The Army Of Darkness.”
Why are you so much emotionally driven about your “Tablighi Jamaat”? Care to share your feelings instead of ranting and raving about the cheap comments. Are you are devout believer of “Faizal-e-Aalam”? Is that what offended you? Do you recall the fact that you did not wanted to give any input from the man-made book? Now when I went through the trouble to jot some crucial points, you got upset for nothing. That’s is grossly unfair.
You know very well that you remain vague all the way through in defining the “Greatness” of the missionary organization which you admire immensely. You of all should never have any trouble listing all the greatness achieved thus far in more than eight years of their existence.
All you need to do is to make a convincing argument so that I will be convinced about all the good works done by the “Tableeghis.” Better yet, why not read some comments from the writers who think otherwise. Never mind, the cheap comments. You should at least try to be realistic for change.
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia
To: All Respected
Readers on the “New Age Islam” forum.
Jamaat: Teachings of Shirk in the Book “Fadhaa’il ‘A’maal”
Compiled by Abu
author of Fadhail ‘Amaal Zakaria Kandalvi fabricates the biggest lie, insult
against the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) that even the Kuffar
might not have done. Kandalvi writes on p.115, Incident no (Hikayat) - 50, Fadhail
Durood(last incident or Hikayat in Fadhail ‘Amaal, Vol.I). He is reporting the
incident of some unkown person by the
name of “Maulana Jami.”
Jami once set out for Haj and had the intention to stand near the grave of the Messenger
of Allah and recite poetry over the grave. Upon completion of the Haj, he set out
for Madinah. The Amir of Madinah saw the
Prophet in his dream and the Prophet instructed him to prevent Jami from coming
to Madinah. The Amir tightened security but zeal and “Ishq” (note: the word Ishq
is in used for that love which is accompanied with lust!) for visiting the
Prophet had completely overtaken him and he continued his way to Madinah. The Amir
again saw the Prophet in his dream and instructed him not to let Jami in. The Amir
scrambled his men and arrested Jami. He was manhandled and thrown into prison.
The Amir then saw the Prophet for the third time and informed the Amir that he (Jami)
is no criminal but he had composed a few lines of poetry which he intended to recite
over my grave and had he done so (i.e able to recite the poem over the grave)
my hand would have come out of the grave to greet him and this would have
caused fitnah. Hence, Jami was taken out of prison with honour and respect
bestowed upon him.”
What shameless, deliberate lies! Had Zakaria no guilt or fear of fabricating such
tremendous lies and attributing it to the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu alaihi
wasallam) in the pathetic manner that he has done above? He says he cannot
remember which book it is in?! And then invites his followers to inform him if
he is mistaken?! Then why narrate it in the first place – making a clear lie
upon the Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) – let alone what it contains
An honest Advice to Tableeghi Jamaat by Dr Israr Ahmed
Your weak rebuttal only confirms that you are unable to pinpoint the “Greatness” of your favorite “Tablighi Jamaat.”
You wrote, “So what of Fazail-e-Aamal?” This answer can merely be translated as you simply do not care if anything is wrong in that book. Were you part of the “Jamaat” as a young man? This strong bond of yours must have a link somewhere along the line. Why would you not be at least a little bit critical of the book, that is, in fact a direct opposite to our Holy Quran?
May I ask you, "10 Million” strong of what? From all I gather is that the “Jamaat” is nothing but a “Cult.” It has been described by the five writers in their article, as the “Army of Darkness.” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1526793/Army-of-darkness.html. Here is what they have to say:
The modern leadership of the Tablighi is one of its core mysteries. After Kandhalawi's death in 1944, control passed to his son, Muhammed Yusuf, who led a dramatic expansion across the sub-continent until his own death in 1965. It is understood that real power is still held by family members, although how it is exercised, and by whom, remains largely unknown.
Naseer Saheb, as for their greatness which you repeatedly refer to, then why there lies some sort of a hidden power which remains mysterious up until this day?
Granted that you will again rant and rave about this wonderful missionary movement, but there is nothing one can do to change your mind. I do not think anyone will care to. After all, quite a number of readers on this particular forum are coming to learn as to why I have issues with commentators and religious organizations hiding their true identities.
Strangely, you mentioned that, “If one's aamal reflect the whole of the Quran consistently through one's life, then one has obviously reached perfection and deserve the highest place.” Now my final question to you is, “Aamal Of Which Personality?” The real person or his/her hidden identity? Think about it, Naseer Saheb.
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia
Afternoon Naseer Ahmed Saheb,
a few meaningful posts can be seen. You know I personally opened the pages of
the book titled, “Fazail-e-Aamal” and typed those paragraphs and then posted
them. No, it was not taken from someone else criticism.
response is vague. I am not sure if you being an ardent admirer of “Tablighi
Jamaat” realize that this book is running parallel to our Holy Quran
in a sense that it is full of Hadiths with few Quranic verses. Now what do you
call such an emphasis on a man-made book versus the Divine book? Little wonder
that the author came up with an idea of “Corrupted Views.” Your guess is as good as mine!
point you somehow missed out is, “only through these learned personages that
Allah Ta’ala has blessed us with the true knowledge of Islam.” Surely, you will
agree with me that in Islam priesthood is forbidden. Yet the author is in
direct contradiction to the commandments of our Holy Quran.
again, if reciting the highest number of “ayaats” can place a Muslim in the highest
level in “Jannat-ul-Firdaus,”
then the very commandment of rewarding good deeds by Almighty Allah gets
completely nullified. Such a twisted theory is also in total violation of our
Holy Quran. Not sure what you are smoking, but there is something wrong if scholars
like you endorse such a theory of salvation.
can you name the so-called “Greatness of the Tablighees”? What great thing
have they performed in the last eight years or so? From all I know, young Muslims
have been brainwashed and turned into “Thoughtless Devotees”
who have literally abandoned the act of “Amr bin maruf wa nahi anil munkar” (enjoining the good and forbidding the evil).
you think that leaving one’s own family members who are in need or sick is a
good thing to do? Then again, what have so many millions of Muslims marching in
groups have collectively accomplished to raise their voice of concern about the
that is going on in the Islamic world?
The primary task of any missionary work is to call upon humans to enjoin good
and forbid evil. Nay, these thoughtless Islamic missionaries simply want to stay
aloof and display their indifference towards anything that hurts the image of
Islam. Their main concern is “Self-Salvation” by following a man-made book
and hanging around mosques praying, fasting and eating. I am sorry to say that
they are absolutely and positively not contributing anything to enhance the Islamic
let’s call spade a spade, Naseer Saheb. Sadly, you remain adamant and do not
want to hear any constructive criticism, period. I am perfectly prepared for
your rebuttal which will include all sorts of names of different sects. Did you
ever notice my involving names of various Muslim sects? Common sense should dictate
to us that something is truly wrong with the missionary work that relies on a
book called “Fazail-e-Aamal” and not on the Holy Quran. The word to the wise
comes another twister which is mind boggling to say the least. Who is Mulla Ali
Qari? In the book “Fazail-e-Aamal” in
section, “Holy Virtues of the Holy Quran - Page No. 35,” the two paragraphs are sort of shocking. It is as follows:
to Mulla Ali Qari, it is mentioned in a ‘hadith’ that there is no level in ‘Jannat’
higher than that given to the reader of the Quran. So the readers will ascend
in proportion to the number of ‘ayaat’ recited by them in the world. ‘Allamah
Dani (Rahmatullan alaih) says that authorities agree that there are six
thousand ‘ayaat’ in the Quran. But there is some difference of opinion about
the numbers over and above six thousand. These are variously reported to be
204, 14, 19, 25, 36.
written in ‘Sharah-ul-Ihya’ that each ‘ayat’ correspondonds to a higher level
in Paradise. So a reader will be asked to ascend according to his recitation.
One who reads the whole of the Quran will attain the highest level in Paradise.
And one who knows only a part of the Quran will rise up to the proportionate
level. In brief, the stage or level reached will be fixed by the number of ‘ayaat’
well, this is no time to be sarcastic as such claims raised real serious issue
about the very Jamaat which you talk so highly about. May be you might enlightened
so many readers on this “New Age Islam” forum
as a staunch defender of the Tablighi Jamaat. The question of the day is, “Is
such an elevation to Jannat been taught to the Tableeghis? If so, then you are
right. Millions are joining every day and reciting Holy Quran to an easy entry to
the gates of heavens. You are right about the peaceful nature of this
missionary group. This is it. Keep roaming around the world, preach few good words
to fellow Muslims, have a party, leave home for four months and the hell with
the sick family members or pregnant wife left behind. Bravo!
From the so-called “General Principles,” Point No. 3 was kind of interesting. It is as follows:
Conversations, talks and discussions must be conducted in soft and persuasive
tones, using simple and polite language. All types of displeasure with each
other must be avoided. The “ulema-e-karam” (scholars of Muslim scriptures) must
be held in high respect and esteem as we usually display for the “Holy Quran”
and “Hadis,” because, it is through these learned personages that Allah Ta’ala
has blessed us with the true knowledge of Islam and enlightenment. Any disrespect
towards them, however insignificant, may amount to contempt of Islam itself,
which in turn may provoke the wrath of Allan Ta’ala for the whole community.”
about that? What is the deal here with the principles of the “Great Jamaat”
which you brag about all the time, Naseer Saheb?
Good Morning Naseer Saheb,
No. I have not read “Fazail-e-Aamal” in its
entirety. I merely glanced at few pages.
Yes. Your response implies that you have not read it either.
Giving straight answer should not be difficult.
Now here is what I noticed in the book which was kind of
awkward. It reads as follows:
The acts of
Prophet (Sallallah alaihe wasallam) are very good guide for our practice. The Prophet
(Sallallah alaihe wasallam) says:
“I have been
given the Quran and also other commandments. Beware of the time, which is
coming shortly when carefree people sitting on their couches will say, ‘Stick to
the Quran only. Carry out only the commandments contained therein.”
views are generally inspired by arrogant due to wealth, and perhaps that is why
the word “Carefree” is used for such people.”
Can you please be kind enough to elaborate on what it the real
meaning of the two words “Corrupted Views”?
I humbly ask, “What cheap points and revenge are you talking about?” My only
objective is to extract the “Truth.” If anyone talks cheap about Islam and the
Prophet of Islam, then I have all the right in the world to speak my mind.
could care less if you team up with Pseudo Rational to respond to me about the subject
Jamaat.” All I have asked you for is, “Did you read ‘Faizail-e-Amal’ in its entirety?”
is a relatively simple question and it can easily be answered in “yes” or “no.”
How else can I behave like a decent
human being? You tell me, Naseer Saheb, as I am all ears.
Naseer Ahmed Saheb,
You wrote, “The writer of Fazail-e-Amal, Moulana Zakariyah is
the son-in-law of Moulana Ilyas (founder of TJ).”
My question to you is, “Did you read this book in its entirety?”
Let me know so that I can understand as to what extent you have studied it.
By Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia
- 2/20/2014 7:02:21 AM
To All The Respected Readers on “New
Age Islam” Forum
Your Daily Muslim: Abdul-Aziz al-Deobandi
Challenging the Tabligi Jamaat’s ‘Olymics” Mosque
The Mega Mosque & Tabligi Jamaat
Kya Tabligi Jamaat Haq Par Hai
Deobandi Tableeghi Jamaat
How To Deal With Jamaat At-Tabligh
Tablighi Jamat’s Hidden Beliefs!
Channel 4 Report on Tableeghi Jamaat
Deobandi Tableeghi Jamaat Exposed
Jamaat: The Premier Latent Network
not supportive of violence itself or recognized as a terrorist group by any
Western government, the TIJ is a fundamentalist movement birthed from the same
Islamic school that later spawned the Taliban and Harakat ul-Mujahideen. Other
than a small cadre of religious scholars in Pakistan, the group lacks organizational structure, is
extremely secretive; stresses individual adherence to a strict
fundamentalist interpretation of Islam; and
may possess the most active propagation imperative for any modern Islamic
Jamaat is also vehemently apolitical, a facet that has traditionally exempted the
movement from repression from even the most paranoid of governments, but today
serves more to shield the group from accusations that it is an active supporter
organizations readily exploit these deficiencies, and as counter-terrorism
officials become more tactically adept, the advantages of latent Islamic
networks such as Tabligh Jamaat in recruiting members, raising capital, and
moving clandestinely will become ever more crucial.
Tabligh Jamaat is an Islamic fundamentalist movement begun in India by Maulana
Muhammad Ilyas. Similar to the more infamous Wahhabi sect started by Ibn Wahhab
on the Arabian Peninsula more than a century before, Ilyas formed the Tablighi
Jamaat to counter what he saw as the perversion of Islamic practice by a rising
tide of Hindu influence. Like Wahhab,
Ilyas’ brand of Islamic revival evolved out of pre-existing Islamic teachings,
in this case, those of the Deobandi madrassas of present day India and
Pakistan. These same schools later bred such notables as the Taliban and Harkat
ul-Mujahideen (HUT), and though the Tablighi Jamaat lacks the overt, violent
ambitions of these organizations, the similarities in their fundamentalist
message and political orientation are compelling.
Tablighi emphasis face-to-face, door-to-door proselytization, shunning
propagation via print media and the internet, a practice that has led some to
jokingly refer to them as the “Jehovah’s Witness of Islam.”
Tablighi elders’ traditional quietism
can be explained both as being in accordance with the declared apolitical
stance of the TIJ and as an effort to avoid the jurisprudence debates that have
long plagued Islam. It could also be viewed as a shrewd attempt to deflect
attention and criticism from the organization. Until recently, the difficulty in
penetrating the Tabligh’s diffuse and disjointed network and its apolitical
front had been enough to stymie public examination of the organization behind
the movement. Today, this
same secrecy is drawing the suspicion of law enforcement authorities.
members – many Western scholars – are quick to denounce any tie between the
organization and terrorism, often citing the group’s focus on individual
religiosity over societal transformation and vocal disdain for politics. Those members implicated in
terrorist plots, they argue, represent a miniscule percentage of TIJ adherents.
This may be true, but when viewed as the percentage of terror plots involving
people somehow connected to the Tablighi, the correlation is unmistakable. Some
see this connection as evidence Tablighi Jamaat is consciously driving the
spread of jihadism across the Western world.
refusal of what Tablighi leadership that does not exist to pass judgment on the
actions of its members or the exploitation of its movement compounds this
reality, and while some may contend that this unfairly implies intent on the
part of the leadership, by refusing to condemn
(or even acknowledge, in many cases) the terrorist acts of its members the TIJ
acquires a level of agency in the process. The presence of terrorists and terrorist recruiters with
the TIJ ranks is not solely due to the decentralized nature of the TIJ as an
organization, it is also a product of the organization’s unwillingness to
affect discipline within its ranks, a fault that lies squarely on the
shoulders of the Tablighi leadership in Raiwind and its emirs abroad.
Defending the Tablighi
The Tabligh Challenge
The Muslim YMCA : by Robert VerBruggen - 12.01.2006
Jamaat is far from a household name, but the reach and nature of the worldwide
evangelical Muslim organization poses complex challenges to U.S.
counter-terrorism officials, The Nixon Center’s Alexis Debat and the Middle
East Institute’s Marvin G. Weinbaum argued Thursday.
organization is present in more than 80 countries, and about 99.9 percent of
its activities are legitimate, peaceful and apolitical, Debat said. “It’s
dedicated to improving society through individual development”, said Debat, who
returned from a trip to Pakistan two weeks ago. “They claim it’s not a political goal, but I’d argue that
trying to change a society’s values is a political project, philosophically
central goal is Muslim withdrawal from Western society.
main activity is sending preachers—for four days, ten days, forty days, four
months—to preach their brand of Islam in another community”, Debat said. They
also hold gatherings in Bangladesh and Pakistan. The group’s structure is both
chaotic and organized. Members come from all ethnic and national Muslim groups,
and it is easy to form a “Jamaat” unit with 10 or more people.
there is a central hierarchy, with each unit led by an “emir.” The top-tier
leadership has stayed in one family since the group’s founding in the
Jamaat’s activities are incredibly secretive, Weinbaum added.
benign most of the group’s activities may be, they offer many opportunities for
terrorists. “It’s a
vehicle for moving money, moving people and organizing travel and recruiting”,
in Pakistan, Debat was able to attend a massive Muslim gathering (an “ijtima”)
after a guard let him in upon learning he is French, though afterwards the
expert was followed by about six different individuals, and questioned about
his intentions in Pakistan by about 40 people. “It’s a series of flat fields,
with 1.8 million people in tents praying, and there’s a mosque and a compound”,
Debat said. “I was told
that, in the compound, Al-Qaeda came to raise money from Arab sheikhs and
recruit foreign Muslims.”
of shops sold nothing but Osama bin Laden posters.
Much of the problem lies in the fact
that leaders cannot attack Tabligh Jamaat. Weinbaum said that would be akin to
“cracking down on the YMCA” in Muslims’ eyes. In addition, terrorists can pose as
Tabligh Jamaat evangelists to access other countries. “It’s been hijacked by
elements that realize the opportunity it presents”, Weinbaum said. “It’s not unlike the mosque or the
madrassa—this is fertile ground, where terrorists can create a mindset among
people who are susceptible. They can send the message that if you really want
to act on your faith, there are places you can go.”
with mosques and madrassas, though, Weinbaum cautioned against assuming the
organization causes terrorism in itself.
a terrorist has ties to Tabligh Jamaat, that doesn’t mean that’s where he
learned his trade”, he said. “It just shows it’s becoming universal, a rite of
passage for everyone.”
Dealing with the organization’s terrorism
connections could prove
difficult for U.S. officials.
question is how to root out the 0.1 percent that are terrorists without
antagonizing the rest of the community”, Debat said. “It can let terrorists
paint the issue as the West versus Islam, and that serves their purposes.”
Weinbaum said political change in Pakistan is a prerequisite to addressing the
threat. “Pervez Musharraf could put more pressure on them, by bringing up how
they’ve been abused by the terrorist element”, he said. “Essentially, we want
to keep them from being hijacked.”
Muslim Missionary Group Draws New Scrutiny in U.S.
enforcement officials and moderate Muslim scholars say that disengagement from
society is what worries them most about the Tablighi Jamaat.
''You teach people to exclude themselves, that
they don't fit in, that the modern world is an aberration, an offense, some
form of blasphemy,'' said Khaled Abou El Fadl, a professor of Islamic law at
U.C.L.A. ''By preparing people in this fashion, you are preparing them to be in
a state of warfare against this world.''
El Fadl said he spoke from experience, having briefly joined the group as a
teenager in Cairo about 20 years ago. ''I don't believe there's a sinister plot
where they're in bed with Osama bin Laden but are hiding it,'' Professor El
Fadl said. ''But I think
that militants exploit the alienated and withdrawn social attitude created by
the Tablighis by fishing in the Tablighi pond.''
Muslim groups have long criticized the Tablighi Jamaat for its official refusal
to take a stand on the causes that have inflamed the Muslim world, from the
Afghan holy war against the Soviet Union in the 1980's to the more recent wars
over Kashmir, Chechnya and Bosnia.
But investigators in America and elsewhere say
more violent groups have been well served by the Tablighi Jamaat's apolitical
stance and ability to move missionaries around countries and across borders.
''There may be groups that do not actually profess
its basic ideology and profound religiosity and yet use the cover of the
Tablighi Jamaat in order to evade scrutiny of the security forces, knowing full
well that the Jamaat would not take a public stance against any defectors,''
the Canadian intelligence service said in a recent analysis.
To All Respected
Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum
Deobandis and Tableeghi Jamaat
Though Tableeghis Propagate So Much Fazail-e-Aamaal,
Do They Themselves Read It???
I Guess No! Forget About Guessing, I Am Sure The
Majority Don’t Actually Read It.
Just Ask Your Friends, Relatives, Etc Who Has Gone In
Jamaat With Them For Atleast 40 Days or 4 Month.
Just Ask Them A Simple Question What Is Tauhid/Tawheed? Majority Will Hear This
Word For The First Time
Hussain Salem Mohammad Almerfedi
Barack Obama, President of the United States, et al, Respondents
government also asserts that petiotioner’s active association with Jama’at
Tablighi – an Islamic missionary organization that the government says provides
logistical support and operational coverage to terrorist organizations – further
justifies petitioner’s lawful detention.
plans, as he explains it, was to travel from Yemen to Pakistan, a trip that was
relatively inexpensive and easy to make, and then to associate himself with the
Islamic missionary group Jam’at Tabligh (“JT”), which he hoped would fund and
facilitate a missionary trip for him to Europe.
is a complex organization. The Islamic scholar, Dr. Qamar-ul Huda, explains that
JT originated in British India as a response to aggressive conversion campaign
by Hindu fundamentalist and Christian religious groups. Its emergence was part
of a broader trend of Islamic revivalism or the reaffirmation of faith and
Muslim cultural identity.
hosts an annual meeting in Raiwind, Pakistan that attracts approximately one million
people from 85 countries, the second largest gathering of Muslims after the
pilgrimage to Mecca.
teachings of Jt emphasize internal change, not political doctrine.
government’s own intelligence documents describes JT as “Legitimate Islamic missionary
group.” The government argues, however, that although JT functions as a
legitimate organization, Islamic extremists worldwide, including al Qaeda, have
infiltrated it and have used it as a cover for terrorist activities.
United States government has classified JT as a ______ Terrorist Support Entity,
which means that government believes it has “demonstrated intent and
willingness to provide financial support to terrorist organizations willing to
attack U.S. persons or interests, or provide willing operational support to
_______ terrorist groups.”
intelligence report _______ states that the “Tabligh Jamaat organization has
been supporting Islamic terrorist groups in South and Southeast Asia under the
cover of conducting religious activities. The group is closely aligned with
other Pakistani terrorist organizations and the Al-Qaida network.
court has no reason to question any of these assertions.
The Jihadist Threat in
latest counterterrorist operation in France points out the ambiguous role of tabligh
participating and waging jihad. While some tabligh centers
may be used by anonymous terrorist operatives simply to take advantage of the
group’s well-recognized apolitical line, selected tabligh believers are indeed sent to attend Pakistani madrassas –
known by the intelligence community to be safe haven for terrorists – in order
to deepen their religious knowledge. Police sources also indicate that
at these madrassas a different kind of selection takes place, between those who
pursue “intellectual” and “operational” vocations. Those in the latter category
may be sent to training camps, following the paths of French convert Herve
Djamel Laiseau, who was found frozen to death in Afghanistan, or American
convert John Walker Lindh, arrested in 2001 while fighting American and the
Northern Aliance forces in Afghanistan.
The Fundamentals of Islamic Extremism
The connection between Tablighi Jamat and the arrest and
convictions of several terrorists in the United States has demonstrated a
connection to transnational terrorism. These arrests include Iyman Faris, John
Walker-Lindh, and the Lackawanna Six. In each of these cases, the TJ was a vehicle that led to
their radicalization and their subsequent commitment to extremism, and/or was
used as cover for their jihad activities. As a result, Faris,
Walker-Lindh, and the men from Lackawanna traveled to Pakistan and Afghanistan
in pursuit of their religious study, made a commitment to jihad, and received
training at organized terrorist training camps. Similarly, while there has been
no direct connection to the TJ, the recent arrest of Hamid Hayat in Lodi,
California illustrates a connection between the study of Islam, the path to
extremism, and the commitment to jihad. Hayat allegedly admitted to traveling
to Pakistan where he studied in a madrassah before entering a terrorist
training camp in 2004. Upon the completion of his training, he returned to the
US. This case is similar to Faris, Lackawanna, and others who have also been
arrested on terrorism charges and who have followed a similar path for
recruitment and radicalization.
Fazail-e-Amaal Ki Haqeeqat – Lecture by
Sheikh Touseef Ur Rahman
When this Ummah has left ALLAH’s
book, holding fast to ‘Behesty Zawar’, ‘Fazail-e-Amaal’ … What was the result? It
led this Ummah to destruction. And humiliation was imposed upon them by ALLAH.
They got humiliated in every hole and corner. And what’s the cause of this
humiliation? (Verse from Quran) you want to get guidance??? Want to get
peace??? Embrace this book of ALLAH! Understand monotheism (tauheed)!!! Do not
join partners with ALLAH!! Save
yourself from shrik. You will be granted guidance and relief on the Day
of Judgment too.
Alan Craig exposes
Mega-Mosque con trick
of the Scholars of the Sunnah concerning the Jamaa’ah at-Tableegh
Dawat e Islami aur Tableeghi Jamaat
kamyaab kyun ?? by Mufti Muneed ur Rehman
first of all i must say i love all muslims
irrespective of difference for the sake of Allah swt-
i hate to criticize anyone in public unless
i feel it is important
i have spent time with tablighi jamaat and
during 1 day or 3 days or 10 days or 40 days... x days they do not talk about
social/state/political evils prevailing in the society-
i am not a fan of mufi muneeb-ur-rahman,
but here he sums it all up in 3 minutes, please listen to it-
& School of Thought
- They believe that if they correct their
individuals (members) one-by-one then the evil will be automatically eradicated
from amongst the masses.
- That going out and propagating their da’wah to
the people, helps in nurturing the da’ee and cultivating his actions, such that
he feels he is an example for others to follow and that he adheres to that
which he is calling the people to.
- They believe that blind following a madhhab is obligatory, and
they do not permit ijtihaad, believing that the conditions of a mujtahid (one
who is qualified to make ijtihaad) are not present amongst the scholars of this
To All RespectedReaders on “New Age
e Amaal Tablighi Jamaat Q A by Brother Imran
In the Name of
Talghis not propagate Jihad-e-Asghar (the
struggle waged with sword), only Jihad-e-Akbar (the greater Jihad that one
wages with oneself to lead a more upright and pious life), but their intense indoctrination
which often starts at a very young age robs the person of individual thinking
and the capacity for logical reasoning. By repeatedly emphasising on the
superiority of Islam as opposed to other religions and by strict gender
segregation, the Tabligh intensifies the intolerance level of the individuals.
Gilles Kepel in his book The War for Muslim Minds: Islam and the West,
writes,“The intense indoctrination preached by the sheikhists reduces their
flock’s capacity for personal reasoning, which makes these followers easy prey
for a clever jihadists’ preacher.” Moreover, since committed Jamaatis travel
with the groups for four months at a stretch, they clearly cannot hold regular
jobs, which to some extent speak of their and their family’s economic security
thereby adding to their overall vulnerability.
However, the biggest cause of concern is its slightly nebulous organisational
structure which makes it vulnerable to exploitation by vested interests.
According to Salim Khan, Tabligh has no mechanism for background checks of its
members. Since it is entirely a voluntary project, members come and go as they
wish. Besides, during chillas, anybody can come and attend the bayaan at the
mosque. In fact, the
annual Tablighi Jamaat congregation at Raiwind in Pakistan has become some kind
of a fishing pond for terrorist groups like Jaish and Lashkar. At the 2006
congregation which was attended by nearly a million people, members of Jaish
and Lashkar not only mingled with the Jamaatis freely but also addressed quite
a few sessions. It is not certain how many members they managed to rope in for
terrorist activities, but it is not difficult to imagine how people brought up
on a staple of Islamic superiority would react when told about the sufferings
of fellow Muslims at the hand of the enemies of Islam. This is
particularly worrisome for India as in any case the normal rhetoric in Pakistan
is anti-India; when combined with religious zeal and images of Muslim
sufferings in Gujarat, Kashmir and other places it can be a lethal cocktail.
Yet, it would be a bit of an over-reaction to immediately jump up and impose
restrictions on Tablighi Jamaat or proscribe it. Despite individual cases,
there has not been a single instance so far of the involvement of Tabligh as an
organisation in any terrorist activity. But given its nebulous structure and
the complete absence of accountability it is important that the veil of secrecy
be lifted. Even though it is difficult to do a background check on all its
travelling members, but some form of internal screening should be put into
place. Since Tablighi members travel in groups, their travel arrangements,
including passports and Visas are issued as a group, where individual checks
are often neglected. This makes Tabligh a good cover for terrorists and anti-social
elements. There is also a need for better accountability in the areas of
funding as well. At the moment, Jamaats keep no record of any money received or
spent. They claim that they function purely on the donations of their members,
but there is no mechanism to check if they receive donations from patrons
abroad as well and how that money is spent. By abjuring social responsibilities and focussing solely
of religious propagation, Tabligh creates intellectually stunted, selfish
people who consider themselves outsiders in a society. A large group, running
into millions, believing itself to be an outsider is certainly not good news
for any society.
To All Respected Readers on “New Age
Rehman Malik Irresponsible Statement On
Islamic Missionary Group
Uploaded on Jul 31, 2011
Minister Of Pakistan Rehman Malik has said that Tablighi missionary centre in
Raiwaind is the breeding ground of extremism and terrorism in Pakistan as the
centre has a major role in brainwashing the extremists.
<!--[endif]-->Senator Rehman Malik told the audience at
the security think-tank International Institute of Strategic Studies (IISS)
while speaking on the topic of "Countering Extremism in South Asia".
Rehman Malik said that all the terrorists
arrested in Pakistan had three elements in common: they have visited the
missionary Tablighi centre in Lahore's Raiwind; their close family members have
taken part in Afghan war of the Soviet era and they have been to one of the
more than 25,000 madrassahs which have mushroomed in Pakistan following the USA
and Pakistan's joint war against the Communist USSR.
Have you ever been to a
Tablighi Jamaat lecture? I have many times. They do have militant elements,
every single Tablighi Jamaat lecture I've been to they potray Taliban and Al
Qaeda as heroes of Islam. They talk bullshit nonsense like ''There was a
bombing by America and it killed many shaheed, after that the place that was
bombed started smelling like roses and flowers'' and everybody sitting there
going MASHALLAH. what a load of bullshit.
Oh yeah and one time the Tablighi Jamaat lecture I went to during the time of
the Swat war in 2009 they were talking about how members of their group were in
Swat with the ''mujahideen'' (Taliban) and the army was bombing the city but
only their buildings were saved because they were working for Allah's cause. They portray the army as savage
monsters and the Taliban as heaven sent angels.
Jamaat: An Indirect Line to Terrorism
of people making the jump from TJ to radical Islam are the two leading members
of the cell responsible for the July 7, 2005, London bombings -- Mohammed
Siddique Khan and Shahzad Tanweer. Both had life-changing experiences through their exposure to TJ,
though by 2001 the men had left the Tablighi mosque they had been attending in
the British city of Beeston, because they found it to be too apolitical. They
apparently were frustrated by the mosque's elders, who forbid the discussion of
politics in the mosque.
Muslims in general, though, the Jamaat is where they turn to for spiritual and
other kinds of healing. "There is a common belief that if there is a boy
in the family who has taken to drugs and alcohol and gone astray, 'usko jamaat bhej do (send him
to the Jamaat)'. Community service along with a good dose of preaching
is supposed to work miracles, people say, though I do not believe in such
things, " Farooqui says, adding that he remembers the time a Jamaat group
had come to his house with the son of a wealthy Dubai emir as one of its
members. The boy had been staying in the Nizamuddin mosque for a month and
working for Jamaat.
The World Almanac of Islamism
– Tablighi Jama’at
The movement teaches jihad
primarily as personal purification rather than as holy warfare.18
This may be because, following Deobandi doctrine, TJ takes the utilitarian
approach that martial jihad
is not wise when the umma
is weak, rather than because it disavows violent jihad altogether.19 In any event, because
TJ eschews jihad of the
sword currently, it has met with the disapproval of Saudi clerics, with TJ
missionaries banned from preaching in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and a number
of online Wahhabi fatwas
listing TJ as a “deviant” group, along with Shi`ites.20 However, practical connections
between TJ practitioners and acts of terror (such as the attacks in Dar es
Salaam and Nairobi), as well as anecdotal evidence that Ilyas himself believed
he was “preparing soldiers” for jihad,21
paint a more complex—and threatening—picture of the organization.
The Blessed Effort of Jama’ah
al-Tabligh & the Wrong Practices
One of my respected Shaykhs, Mufti Taqi
Usmani (may Allah preserve him), in a recent lecture, very passionately and
sincerely highlighted the wrong practices adopted by some folks who participate
in the organized effort of deen called, ‘Jama’ah Tabligh.’ He explained that
there are many different efforts of serving the deen of Allah – such as
teaching (ta’lim), conveying the message (da’wah & tabligh), reforming
souls (tazkiya), charity work, etc – and the objective of all such efforts is
to please Allah Most High. They are all different forms of serving the deen of
Allah. However, the problem arises when some people get involved in a
particular type of effort, and then think that what they are involved in is the
only ‘real’ effort; and all other efforts are either not the efforts of deen or
even if they are, they don’t have much significance. This leads to deviation!
He particularly singled out those who
become ‘extreme’ in the effort of Jama’ah Tabligh. Some of them – due to lack
of knowledge – become so overzealous that they start disregarding all other
efforts of deen such as teaching ilm, charity work, etc… If teachers and
students of a Madrasa do not come out in their organized Tabligh effort, they
think that they are not really doing the work of deen! He then cited an example where a Tablighi brother
told his old mother and wife that, “I do not have time to earn and provide for
you, you earn and feed the family; I need to go out for Tabligh!” This, he
explained, is not what Allah wants from us. In Islam, our family also has a
right over us, and one should do what is required at the given time. This is
not what the ‘elders’ of Tabligh have taught, he explained.
He said that such people become so
fanatical that if any scholar was to give them sincere advice (nasiha) out of
love and genuine concern, they become extremely defensive and say things like,
“You are anti-Tabligh” and “How dare you point out our mistake” and “The
mistakes of one or two should not be taken to mean the whole effort is flawed”
and “The Tablighis do
great work” etc… but when did anyone say the whole work is flawed, and when did
anyone deny the value of the effort?! It seems they just do not want to hear
anyone correcting their mistakes!
Finally, he said, the effort of Jama’ah
Tabligh is very beneficial, which has spread the message of Islam to far and
distant lands. We
encourage people, especially the general masses, to participate in this effort.
However, the mistakes must be pointed out. If such extremism is not avoided, it
may lead this whole effort into becoming some kind of a cult! Avoid such
extremism, and save others from it! [End of Shaykh al-Islam Mufti Taqi
Usmani’s statement in my own words]
Spreading the holy word – and
fuelling Islamic extremism
Pakistan, their uncontested rise is rapidly changing the religious landscape to
one ossified by a puritan ideology, fixated on the form of Islam practised in
the seventh century. At the forefront is the Tablighi Jamaat, a network of
proselytizers and religious activists who travel throughout the country—and the
world—teaching the Salafi branch of Islam, the reductionist version of the religion
practised by virtually all jihadist groups in the world. The Tablighis
themselves claim an ideological pedigree from a slightly less radical form of
fundamentalist orthodoxy. But
since Sept. 11, 2001, their ideology has shifted closer to the Salafis, to a
point where they are generally seen as being within the Salafi fold. And
for both, Islam’s crisis is the consequence of a weakness of faith, poisoned by
secular democracy. The cure is a return to the original form of the religion,
cleansed of innovations that have misguided the faithful. “The greatest enemies
of Islam,” says Ilyas Khan, a preacher at the Tablighi preaching centre in
Peshawar, the capital of Pakistan’s war-ravaged northwest, “are Muslims
Tablighis argue that they are apolitical, pietist Muslims who condemn the
violent actions of their jihadist counterparts. Some observers remain
skeptical. The FBI claims
it has found that al-Qaeda has used the Tablighi Jamaat as a recruiting tool;
Richard Reid, the U.S. citizen who in 2003 attempted to blow up a flight by
detonating explosives hidden in his shoe, was a member but apparently left
because the movement was not violent enough for his tastes. The bombings of
nightclubs in Bali in 2002 were reportedly planned in southern Thailand, where
the Tablighis run a network of mosques.
uncertainty over what role the Tablighi movement plays in Islamic radicalization
has become a contentious issue in recent years. The fact that the group rejects bloodshed makes them, in
some ways, untouchable. But their promotion of the same ideology that jihadists
follow, with its rigid rejection of any other form of Islamic practice, marks
them out as extremists in their own right—and ones whose message could easily
be twisted into violence.
Tableeghi Jamaat: Reason for
the Rise of Religious Intolerance
They are convinced that they are on the
road that follows the Sunnah (ways) of the prophet (PBUH) and are acting upon
the will of God even though most Muslims throughout the world and throughout
history refuse to accept this as the rightful way to preach.
If you join them in these local
congregations, you are encouraged, often times to an embarrassing extent, to
plan a three-day course, which is followed by a weeklong trip and then that is
then extended to a 40-day tour to the remote areas of Pakistan to spread the
message. After one cycle, you will be requested to repeat these self-financed
excursions after every few months or at least once a year to get your own faith
expeditions get so addictive that my cousin went on a six-month long visit. On
his way out, he reassured his ailing father, who had recently been diagnosed
with lung cancer, in these words, “I am leaving my mobile phone behind but I
will be in touch with you and will call you as soon as I get an opportunity.”
Even then, he did not forget to advise
him, “Our group will pray for your health every day; just ascertain that,
meanwhile, you will compensate for all of your missed prayers, fast for your
lost months of Ramzan and pay off your zakat in full.” It turned out that his father passed away within
the next 30 days and my cousin was never able to attend his own father’s
With the passage of time, as you make
these volunteer trips, you will adopt a new lifestyle, the one that has been
recommended mostly by one sect as the righteous way of living. Your attire will
be more ‘compliant’ and more representative of that particular faction, your
accent will adapt to new rules, your vocabulary will evolve and, above all,
your attitude towards your family will change. Surrounded by a number of new
friends, either you will avoid your old associates or they, after failing to
find their old pal in you, will start circumventing you. Fashion becomes a curse word and
your admiration for the arts and literature will evaporate as part of history.
With these changes, you will emerge as a ‘reformed’ Muslim who is ready for his
three-day trip every weekend.
Jamaa’at al-Tableegh – Pros and Cons
is the ruling on the 40 days and 4 months to the different part of world to
call muslim brothers towards duties of islam.
be to Allaah.
al-Tableegh” is one of the groups that are working for Islam. Their efforts in
calling people to Allaah (da’wah) cannot be denied. But like many other groups
they make some mistakes, and some points should be noted concerning them. These
points may be summed up as follows, noting that these mistakes may vary within
this group, depending on the environment and society in which they find
themselves. In societies in which knowledge and scholars are prevalent and the
madhhab of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah is widespread, the mistakes are much
less; in other societies these mistakes may be greater. Some of their mistakes
– Not adopting the ‘aqeedah of Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l-Jamaa'ah. This is clearly
seen from the variations in the ‘aqeedah of some of their members and even of
some of their leaders.
– Their not paying attention to shar’i knowledge.
– Their misinterpretation of some Qur’aanic verses in a manner that was not
intended by Allaah. For example they interpret the verses on jihad as referring
to “going out for da’wah”. The verses which mentioned the word khurooj (going
out) etc. are interpreted by them as meaning going out for da’wah.
– They make their system
of going out for da’wah an act of worship. So they started to misquote the
Qur’aan to support their system which specifies certain numbers of days and
months. This system, which they think is based on evidence from Qur’aan, is
widespread among them in all countries and environments.
– They do some things that go against sharee’ah, such as appointing one of them
to make du’aa’ for them whilst the group goes out for da’wah, and they think
that their success or failure depends on whether or not this man was sincere
and his du’aa’ accepted.
– Da’eef (weak) and
mawdoo’ (fabricated) ahaadeeth are widespread among them, and this is not
befitting for those who aim to call people to Allaah.
– They do not speak of
munkaraat (evil things), thinking that enjoining what is good is sufficient.
Hence we find that they do not speak about evils that are widespread among the
people, even though the slogan of this ummah – which they continually repeat –
there arise out of you a group of people inviting to all that is good (Islam),
enjoining Al-Ma‘roof (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam orders one to
do) and forbidding Al-Munkar (polytheism and disbelief and all that Islam has
forbidden). And it is they who are the successful”
[Aal ‘Imraan 3:104 – interpretation of
The successful are those who enjoin
what is good and forbid what is evil, not just those who do only one of the
– Some of them fall into self-admiration and arrogance, which leads them to
look down on others, and even to look down on the scholars and describe them as
inactive and sleeping, or to show off. So you find them talking about how they
went out and travelled, and they saw such and such, which leads to unfavourable
results, as we have mentioned.
– They regard going out for da’wah as better than many acts of worship such as
jihad and seeking knowledge, even though those things are obligatory duties, or
may be obligatory for some people but not others.
– Some of them audaciously issue fatwas, and discuss tafseer and hadeeth. That
is because they allow each one of them to address the people and explain to
them. This leads to them speak audaciously on matters of sharee’ah. So the
inevitably speak of the meaning of a ruling, hadeeth or verse when they have
not read anything about it, or listened to any of the scholars. And some of
them are new Muslims or have only recently come back to Islam.
Some of them are negligent
with regard to the rights of their children and wives. We have discussed the
seriousness of this matter in the answer to question no. 3043.
the scholars do not allow people to go out with them, except for those who want
to help them and correct the mistakes that they have fallen into.
We should not keep the people away from
them altogether, rather we must try to correct their mistakes and advise them
so that their efforts will continue and they will be correct according to the
Qur’aan and Sunnah.
follow the fatwas of some of the scholars concerning Jamaa’at
– Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz said:
al-Tableegh do not have proper understanding of the issues of ‘aqeedah, so it
is not permissible to go out with them, except for one who has knowledge and
understanding of the correct ‘aqeedah of Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l-Jamaa'ah, so that
he can guide them and advise them, and cooperate with them in doing good,
because they are very active, but they need more knowledge and someone who can
guide them of those who have knowledge of Tawheed and the Sunnah. May Allaah
bless us all with proper understanding of Islam and make us steadfast in
adhering to it.
Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz,
– Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan said:
out for the sake of Allaah does not refer to the kind of going out that they
mean nowadays. Going out for the sake of Allaah means going out to fight. What
they call going out nowadays is a bid’ah (innovation) that was not narrated
from the salaf.
Going out to call people to Allaah
cannot be limited to a certain number of days, rather one should call people to
Allaah according to one's abilities, without limiting that to a group or to
forty days or more or less than that.
Similarly the daa’iyah must have
knowledge. It is not permissible for a person to call people to Allaah when he
is ignorant. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Say (O Muhammad): This is my way; I invite
unto Allaah (i.e. to the Oneness of Allaah — Islamic Monotheism) with sure
i.e., with knowledge, because the
caller must know that to which he calls people, what is obligatory, mustahabb,
haraam and makrooh. He has to know what shirk, sin, kufr, immorality and
disobedience are; he has to know the degrees of denouncing evil and how to do
kind of going out that distracts people from seeking knowledge is wrong,
because seeking knowledge is an obligation, and it can only be achieved by
learning, not by inspiration. This is one of the misguided Sufi myths, because
action without knowledge is misguidance, and hoping to acquire knowledge
without learning is an illusion.
Thalaath Mihaadaraat fi’l-‘Ilm wa’l-Da’wah.
Allaah knows best.
be to Allaah.
al-Tableegh” is one of the groups that are working for Islam. Their efforts in
calling people to Allaah (da’wah) cannot be denied. But like many other groups
they make some mistakes, and some points should be noted concerning them. These
points may be summed up as follows, noting that these mistakes may vary within
this group, depending on the environment and society in which they find
themselves. In societies in which knowledge and scholars are prevalent and the
madhhab of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah is widespread, the mistakes are much
less; in other societies these mistakes may be greater. Some of their mistakes
Salafis hate Tabligh
Best Answer - Voter's Choice
answered 4 years ago
Salafis in general don't hate but I think there is so
much mis-understanding one another. For eg: Salafis say 3, days 40 days is a
Bid'aa. Where as scholars of Tabligh says this is just a system and a Tarteeb
as our system of Madrassa etc. Then if all our systems of Da'wa and Taleem
(teaching and learning) are Bid'aa, their system of Da'wa through channels, CDs
, debates, posters and video clipping, exposing etc then teaching Ilm through
syllabus and class divisions, years and months, certificates and titles, all
these things did not exist at time of Rasaulullah (s.a.w) in Da'wa and Taleem.
So let those who call a brother Muslim as Bida'ati first look into what they
are doing. Also Tabligh is not a group but it is a duty of this Ummah for which
reason we are a selected nation.
Also Salafis are misunderstood by others. They do take the opinion of Mazhab.
In truth, Salafi are those who follow Salaf Salihoon and it is obligatory upon
all Muslim to follow the Salaf. It's not a group but a methodology. If you take
to the view of great scholars like Shaikh Ibn Baaz, Uthaimeen, Jibreen (May
Allah have mercy on them) they never label themselves as Salafis, rather they
explain to Ummah what were Salaf Salih were upon. They all loved the efforts of
Tabligh and explained it in many of their talks and gave advices to what they
saw as shortcomings. As for those who have allergenic towards using weak
narrations for virtues of deeds, they also have problem with majority of
Islamic books as Riyadul Saliheen of Imama Nawawi (r.a), Adabul Mufarrad of
Imam Bukhari (r.a), Tarheeb wa Targeeb, Muta Malik, Tirmidhi and so on and on.
Also some people are against any caller of Islam and any groups working for
Islam. The basic role to
follow is that we should correct one another in good manner and try to serve
Islam in the best ways we can do in these times of Fitna and trials.
Islam is perfect, those who strive for it may have their own weakness and may
not be perfect. Allah (s.w.t) accepts those who sincerely helps His Deen. May
Allah (s.w.t) unite this Ummah on Deen.
4 years ago
I love how people use the word Salafi as if it's a bad
thing. Do you know who Salafis are?
Let me explain to to you since I actually read about these terms rather than
listen to hearsay:
What does it mean to be a Salafi? It means following the Salaf, and hwo was
that? Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). He himself said this to his daughter Fatima
"Indeed, I am for you a blessed Salaf." (Bukhari no. 2652).
The term Salafi emerged from the death of the Prophet (pbuh) to 4 hundred years
after his death. In this time period the people who strictly followed the
Qu'ran and and the way of the Prophet (pbuh) called themselves Salafis.
Using the word Salafi in a derogatory sense happened 200 years ago when the
British met a man name Muhammad bin Abdul Wahab. They found him to be a devout
Muslim who again strictly followed Islam as the Salfis did and they didn't like
that. So to make him seem like less of a Muslim and to put a divide amongst the
Muslims, the British claimed that Wahab practiced a different religion all
together and deemed anyone that followed true Islam to be a "Wahabi"
Ever since then people have used "Salafi/Wahabi" in a derogatory
sense when if you think about it, any Muslim that follows true Islam is a
So technically every Muslim should be a Salafi since this was the earliest word
used to describe a devout Muslim.
Tawbah answered 4 years ago
Unfortunately they use fabricated hadith which in
essence is lying against the prophet(saw). However Salafis are not without
blame either considering they do not acknowledge Tawheed Al Hakimiyah (Allah's
right to have his Shariah law established on the earth) and they constantly
make excuses for the ruling elite in the hijaz to implement man made laws which
challenge Allah's hukoom (Judgement)
Aspirant Sikh soldier answered 4 years ago
This infighting amongst sects in a religion is very
common because each sect thinks that they are practising that particular
religion in most proper way and that the other sects are strayed !
This not only happens in Islam unfortunately also in Christianity , Hinduism ,
Tendou Souji answered 4 years ago
Tabligh do not practice fabricated Hadith..
Respected Naseer Saheb,
Thank you kindly for your balanced comment. Though, it is late now and I will
not be able to
reply, nevertheless, I am glad that you went through all the links which I have
posted on New Age Islam forum.
However, it will be splendid if we get more comments
trickle in so that both of us can try to figure out how best to conclude this
Of course, I am sure you will respect the difference
of opinions between all the readers. I must also inform you that Sultan Shahin
Saheb was much appreciative of my efforts to post important links. Reading and
reflecting upon all the viewpoints is very healthy as you well know. In fact,
this is the only way we can analyze as to what went wrong in the Islamic
society at large?
Again, I thank you for your response. By the way, let
us continue the discourse in a much
Advice To Jamaat al-Tableegh From An
Ex-Tableeghi (Abu Massab)
Khan - 1
my grandfather and father were tablighi's. I went on many khuruj's during my
teens... often being pressured by others in the mosque during my summer
vactions... 3 days, 10 days, 40 days, and honestly in some aspects,
Alhamdulillah in some of their practices can be beneficial; however like the Sheikh here
said, - it is but another cult in Islam. The education one receives through
these jamaat's is comprised from oral traditions that go from person to person,
thus weakening legitimacy.
prophet saw didnt sit in front of women and deliver lectures he went to people
one by one also in the market places he gave dawah he went to taif where he got
pelted with stones, he didnt sit on leather chair with smart jubba etc he
actullay made physical effort, so follow what he did, he cried for the ummah in
duas, in tahajjud he stayed hungry for days, sacrifice was made, its very easy
to sit in comfort and criticize, but i know that throughout the world 1000000,s
benefit from tableegh
alam - 7
Fazail E Amaal is the most read book
after the quran. It has changed many peoples lives, I have it in my room. You
don't have to be a scholar to read this book, it is very easy to understand.
You are making false accusations without even reading it! It has hadith and
Quran verses in it and some commentary by Molana Yusuf Khandlawi (RA). Please
watch refutation to salafis accusations on fazaile amaal by Mufti Asad Waqas
Khalil on youtube.
mehmood96 - 1
says that sahaba r.a never spend 3 days or 40 days on tableegh. i have one
question. why do you fix the timing of your lecture??
Syafiq - 1
to Al Furqan ayah no 63. Assalamualaykum
not surprised your criticising Fazail E amaal, Nasiruddin Albani even
criticised Sahih Bukhari Shareek and Muslim Shareef !
As-Saheeh - 7
dont go off topic. Allah is most high, above this throne, whoever says
otherwise is a liar and misguided. Qalas, i dont want to argue about your
sheikhs. their case is with Allah, no question i have seen stories of shirk in Fazail amaal.
Jarral - 6
salafis are furthest away from the salafs... that seems quite ironic right?!
And why do the salafis gel the need to brandish everyone as a evil doer or
ignorant or even a munaafiq AND anything they don't understand the brandish as
biddah? The salafis of today need to fix up, and you have become a sect as
such... and your school of thought branches off ibn taymiyah
the best answer on this topic, watch sheikh mumtaz ul haq - Where is Allah? The
Best Answer to this question is to NOT even think or ask about this Question!!
brother is spreading Fitnah. Tableegh is a dawah mission to spread the Deen of
Allah. Who gave you the permission to start a group called Salafi or Ahle
To All Respective Readers on “New Age
‘What is Tablighi Jamaat …
Founder of Tabligh Jamaat
Insults Quran in Fazail e Amaal
Tablighi Jamat is a hidden underground plateform of terrorist organizations.
Sipah e Sahaba, Taliban, Al-Qaida etc. are the production of Tablighi Jamat.
The belongs to "Najdi School of thought". Najdi School of thought
means try to believe in Allah s.w.t without Rasool Allah s.a.w.w. Osama Bin
Ladin, Mullah Umar, Dr.Naik, Ghamidi, Tablighi Jamat are from the same school
The reach and influence of the Tabligh Jamaat are
visible at its annual ijtemas in Dhaka
(Bangladesh), Raiwind (Pakistan) and Bhopal (India).
An ijtema is a gathering of the devout
which usually lasts for about 3 days. The Dhaka and
Raiwind ijtemas attract at least a million devotees each while Bhopal gets
about half that number. Low-profile and private, these enormous annual events
reflect the nature of their organizer, the Tabligh Jamaat. The Tabligh Jamaat
is one of the most remarkable in the Islamic world. Founded in the 1920s by
Maulana Muhammad Ilyas Kandhalawi in Northern India, the Tabligh Jamaat is
today a world-wide missionary organization run out of Nizamuddin in Delhi. The
organization has kept its bureaucracy to the very minimum, shuns public ity and
works tirelessly through a superbly-organised network of volunteers to
propagate the call of its founder “Ai Musalmano! Musalman bano”(O Muslims,
According to the lore associated with the
organization, Maulana Ilyas be gan his activities among a semi-tribal group
called the Meo, in the Mewat region of North India. He felt a need to respond
to aggressive Hindu proselytizing movements which launched massive efforts in
the early twentieth century to reconvert those Hindus who had converted to
Islam. Meos had a history of moving back forth between Islam and Hinduism
depending upon who held political power in the region they inhabited. When
Ilyas started, most Meos were Muslim only in name. They worshipped Hindu
deities in their homes and celebrated Hindu religious festivals. They could not
recite Shahadah or say their daily ritual prayers. Their birth, marriage, and
death rituals were all based on Hindu customs. Maulana Ilyas came to the
conclusion that only a grassroots Islamic religious movement could counter
He began by establishing a network of mosque-based
religious schools to educate Meos about correct Islamic beliefs and practices.
But he found that this system inadequate as its functionaries were lacking in
enthusiasm, and perhaps zeal. He then came up with a system that is unique in
its simplicity and its effectiveness. He motivated Muslims to go in groups of
ten to Meo villages.
The group would go to a village, invite local Muslims
to assemble in the mosque and present their message. The message was, and is,
Every Muslim must be able to recite 4 Shahadah (the
profession of faith)
correctly in Arabic.
A Muslim must learn how to say the Shalat (daily
A Muslim must learn the basic teachings of Islam and
to do zikr (ritualized
remembrance of God through Koranic recitations/prayer)
4. A Muslim must respect fellow Muslims
5. A Muslim must be honest and sincere
while doing the above.
6. A Muslim must devote time to go forth
and to spread the word of God.
A seventh point was added later. Muslims were as ked
to abstain from wasting time in idle talk and from sinful deeds. Maulana Ilyas
belonged to a family of Ulema with close ties to Deoband. His teachings were
based on the Deobandi concept of looking inward and living individual lives in
accordance with the Koran and the Hadith in the expectation that this would defend
and revitalize Islam. The crux of the Maulana’s message is his sixth
commandment. A Muslim MUST go forth to proselytize (it is farzul ain). Failure
to do so would be held against him on the Day of Judgment.
The initial movement in Mewat was spectacularly
successful and thousands of Muslims joined Maulana Ilyas. There efforts did
lead to signs of Islamic religious revival in the area 44 and encouraged the
Maulana to replicate it on a national and later international scale. The basic
strategy is stunningly simple. Dedicated Muslims (it is not known definitively
whether they undergo formal training as missionaries or not) are organized into
groups of ten (called jamaats) under a designated leader. Groups are
self-financing and intermingling of classes is compulsory.45
They are asked to go out on missions that last
typically, three days, forty days, four month (chilla) or one year. Shorter
tours are in the close vicinity. A forty day tour would typically take the
Jamaat across the country while forty day or year-long tours would usually be
to destinations abroad. During these tours, the jamaat bases at a local mosque
and starts proselytizing door-to-door amongst Muslim households. Individuals
and families are asked to come to the local mosque for maghrib (sunset) prayers
where they are exposed to the seven commandments and to Tablighi
At the end of each tour, each Jamaat is expected to
submit a report on its mission; some of these reports (there is no definite
information on whether these reports are kept or destroyed) that are available
in the public domain provide virtually the only window into the movement.
Participation in Tablighi activity is entirely voluntary. Members can leave at
any time. The management
of the activities of these groups is undertaken by a secretive central set-up
at Nizamuddin, New Delhi. The leadership of the group, which is drawn mostly
from the descendants of the founder, shun publicity and publish nothing. There
is no reliable information about its organizational structure. It is believed
that there is a network of ameers with specific responsibility for a designated
territorial area. Nothing is known about its membership or the number of
full-time workers. Its finances are entirely opaque. It is only known that group
has received substantial Saudi funding which may have gone to offset travel
costs of missionaries and even to pay salaries of full-time Tablighis.47
A remarkable feature of the Tabligh is its
globalization. It began by establishing branches in West and East Pakistan
following the partition of India. It then went to wherever an expatriate South
Asian Muslim community existed. Large operations are known to exist in Africa
and the UK. It is active in the United States and is known to have a presence
in China, Central Asia and possibly, Japan.48
The first question that is asked by the Tabighi when
someone opens the door is “Are you being a good Muslim?” This is the general
tone of subsequent interaction. Tablighis would thus generally appear to stay
away from politics and socio-economic issues during their proselytizing. This
is, however, a contentious issue. There is a school of thought that the Tabligh has a long-term political
Islamist agenda and its evangelism is preparing an army of soldiers of Islam.
Its secretiveness and its organization along quasi-military lines is also held
against it. The fact that prominent Pakistanis including former Prime Minister
Nawaz Sharif, former President Muhammad Rafique Tarar and former Intelligence
Chief Javed Nasir have Tabligh connections is often adduced as evidence of its
Tablighis never talk of violence during their da’was, there can be very little
Tablighi Jamaat vs Activism
Is the Tablighi Jamaat
compatible or incompatible with political and community activism? My findings
are that the Tablighi Jamaat is an inwards looking movement that appears to do
little to address the everyday and long needs and requirements of Muslims in
the west. Most active Tablighis I have met are not interested in any forms of
activism or even discussing anything of a political or current affairs nature.
Conversely, most Muslims who favour political and community activism want
nothing to do with the Tablighi movement and rarely even listen to talks given
whenever a jamaat visits their masjid.
My local is a deobandi/tableegi jamaat masjid.
I read a thread on here where a brother said all they do is 'sleep, read fazail amaal and
eat biryani', and i must say i kind of agree with him.
For people that have never seriously practiced, and for children (aged 16 max)
its possibly a good idea to go out with them ONCE.
Politics/ activisim doesnt really interest me as politicians are all toilets-
either they take the p*ss or are full of sh*t. But my political opinions aside
tabligi jamaat has got to be the most boring form of dawah there is. Their
'talks' consist of a 5 minute chat about how 'laa ilaha illAllah' consists of 2
elements, which is nonsense. these tools think that you can explain the various
elements and nuances of the kalima in a 5minute chat. Their knowledge is very
limited and very basic- Ive never heard a tabligi talk about Tauheed. Hence i
only really suggest that kids should go out with them, as i do see some
benefits they have. Eg
drug addicts, youths involved in criminality get turned around by some of the
work they do.
From my observations, they
have some cult like tendencies. Ie, they are not allowed to question the elders
or the 'ameer saab' of their jamaat. Whereas our deen tells us to ask
for proofs, evidence, and to contemplate.
When they recite Quran they do so at 100 mph with their heads rocking to and
fro like they are moshing.
They spend a lot of time
walking in anti clockwise circles in the masjid with rosay beeds doing dhikr-
i sense sufism in some of what they do and stand for.
They claim that they are
in the path of Allah, but they havent really got a clue, although im sure they
They perform an act they call 'Gasht' which involves knocking on peoples doors
and 'calling them to the path of Allah'. They only every knock on the doors of
their own chums. I asked a brother why they dont knock on non muslims doors.
His response was 'brother we need to get our own house in order first'- total
cop out, raised issues of cowardice to me.
Whats this knocking on
doors thing all about anyway? its the practice of jehovahs witnesses and
They takes their sleeping
bags with them and remind me of boyscouts. Their book, fazail e amaal is a
waste of good paper.
Army Of Darkness
America, the activities of the Tablighi have been under close scrutiny for some
time. A confidential FBI memo, leaked to a television news network last year,
portrayed the group's followers as likely to be particularly susceptible to the
terrorist cause. "We have a significant presence of Tablighi Jamaat in the
US, and we have found that al-Qaeda used them for recruiting, now and in the
past," says Michael Heimbach, the deputy chief of the FBI's international
terrorism section. Yet, in Britain, the organisation, its shadowy membership
and less-than-explicitly stated aims remain virtually unknown.
should be otherwise, for, while rival Islamic groups flaunt their reach and
power, Tablighi Jamaat - loosely translated as "propagators of the
faith" - exercises influence in a more discreet, yet more worrying,
fashion. The organisation was founded in British-ruled India in 1927, at a time
of growing political friction between Hindus and Muslims that led to the
partition of the sub-continent in 1948. Both communities rallied their faithful
loudly, and one of the voices that rose above the clamour was that of Muhammed
Ilyas Kandhalawi, a scholar and cleric who prescribed a strict code of
religious observance. Tablighis, however, were taught that their true security
- indeed, their religious duty - lay in recruiting as many followers as
possible. No limit was placed on the potential pool of converts, and so,
implicitly, the ultimate
objective was the Tablighisation of the world. The group, for all the
mystique that surrounds it, has been diligent, and, today, with a growing
presence in the West, it
is viewed by anxious critics as a Trojan horse of Islamic fundamentalism.
operates legally in both Britain and America, and it should be stated that none
of its leading figures is known to have said anything that suggests support for
terrorism. Indeed, the Tablighis reject any form of political alignment,
restricting their activities, according to the group's founding creed, to
prayer and self-improvement through intense study of the Koran. So much so,
that some hardline Muslim groups have, in the past, attacked Tablighi Jamaat
for its conspicuous failure to take a political stance on issues such as Israel
and the Iraq war.
say Western critics, this passivity is not all that it seems. The group's ideal
of a world governed by an ultra-conservative, neo-medievalist form of Islam, in
which women are subservient and all laws and customs are based on religious
dictates, is barely distinguishable from the wish lists of al-Qaeda and the
Gaborieau, the head of the School of Indian and South Asian Studies in Paris,
and a Western authority on Tablighi Jamaat, says that the group's objective is
"the conquest of the world". Less easy to divine, he admits, is the
strategy. "It is
extremely secretive and suspicious of outsiders and no one at the centre of its
activities has been fully identified or has spoken about how it operates. We
know that it does not recognise national borders and that, despite its claim to
be apolitical, it does have ties with politicians and branches of the military,
particularly in Pakistan and Bangladesh."
modern leadership of the Tablighi is one of its core mysteries. After
Kandhalawi's death in 1944, control passed to his son, Muhammed Yusuf, who led
a dramatic expansion across the sub-continent until his own death in 1965. It
is understood that real power is still held by family members, although how it
is exercised, and by whom, remains largely unknown.
"It operates in every sense as a
secret society in this country, as much as elsewhere," says Dr
Patrick Sukhdeo, the director of the Institute for the Study of Islam and
Christianity. "Its meetings are held behind closed doors. We don't know
who attends them. How much money it has. It publishes no minutes or accounts.
It doesn't talk about itself. It is extremely difficult to penetrate."
all its growth, Tablighi Jamaat has, in one sense, changed little. In the early
days, it would send its followers out as missionaries. Working in small groups, with few material
possessions, they would walk from village to village, denouncing modernity as
blasphemy and calling for a return to the 7th-century origins of Islam and what
Kandhalawi perceived to be the purity of the faith. Today, the
organisation runs on a global scale - it has about 50,000 followers in America
alone - but its missionaries still operate in the traditional way, visiting
Muslim community groups and mosques to call for a re-embracing of the faith.
Very useful information Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia Saheb,
Some of the links I was not aware of. Thanks.
Dr. Zakir Naik Tablighi Jamaat
Fazail-e-Amaal Reply Answer by a Student. FLV
Dr. Zakir Naik Answers 2013 – What’s Wrong
With Tablighi Jamaat – Urdu
to Ghamidi about Tablighi Jamaat
Everyone well versed in “Urdu” language
must listen to this video very carefully.
Of course, all the astute
comments after listening will be greatly welcomed. Surely, many of the readers
will be much eager to hear valuable comments from Honorable Naseer Ahmed Saheb.
Thank you for listening, I
Very respectively yours, email@example.com
Question: Does Tablighi Jamaat
have terrorist links?
association between Tablighi Jamaat and Islamic violence (or jihadism) will be
explored in greater detail elsewhere on this website.Tablighi Jamaat claims to
be non-political and non-violent. But certainly this is not the full story.
There has been real concern about the radicalising effect TJ teaching has on
some young men, preparing them for militant Islamism. The intelligence services
in France – where Tablighi Jamaat are particularly strong – have referred to
the sect as the “antechamber
of fundamentalism” and a “fertile breeding ground for terrorism”. The New York Times
reported (14 July 2003) that the FBI international terrorist section “found
that al-Qaeda used them (TJ) for recruiting now and in the past.”A militant
jihadi group like Harkat-ul-Mujahideen, which in October 2005 was banned by the
UK government under the Terrorism Act 2000, can claim that “our people are
mostly impressed by the TJ. Most of our workers come from the TJ.”Close links
have been noted between ...
Tablighi Jamaat: A missionary organization
Jamaat (TJ) is a very popular Islamic missionary organization working in South
Asia. Now almost a century old, TJ functions as an essentially missionary
organization trying to impart knowledge of ‘real Islam’ to Muslims and
non-Muslims. The core focus of this organization is to educate the world about
the basic components of Islam and to promote ‘Islamic’ living.
working on that primary objective, the Jamaat is also known for its rather
moderate approach towards Jihad. Apparently, it has no links with the Jihadis
and Al-Qaeda as, according to its principles, Jihad can only be waged by an
Islamic government, not individuals.
this thinking, TJ is not completely free of Jihadists. As a matter of fact, Jihadis take TJ as the first
step towards militancy. In the Taliban stronghold, TJ was very popular.
Many of Taliban leaders took some lessons from the Jamaat.
we need to know more about TJ. In the next post, I will try to come up with the
working of TJ and its alleged links with terrorist organizations.
Tablighi Jamaat and Deobandi Taliban in
light of Ahadees
consensus Fatwa of Sunni Ulema declared that Taliban terrorists
are Khawarij. It may be noted that Taliban (TTP) and allied terrorist groups
including Sipah-e-Sahaba (ASWJ-LeJ), Jaish-e-Muhammad, Jundullah etc are purely
Deobandi groups, not a single Sunni Barelvi, Shia or Ahmadi is a part of TTP,
ASWJ-LeJ, Jundullah etc. It may also be noted that all leading Deobandi clerics
of Pakistan including leaders of the Tablighi Jamaat and Mufti Taqi Usmani etc
have never explicitly condmened terrorist activities and suicide bombings by
the TTP, ASWJ-LeJ etc. The fatwa of Sunni Ulema cited above was by Sunni
Sufi/Barelvi clerics who have little influence on Deobandi madrassas and
Pakistan’s veteran journalist Nusrat Javed said that Tablighis cultivate the
Taliban mindset in Islam loving ordinary people.
the present post, we have compiled the Ahadith (traditions of Prophet Muhammad)
that support the Sunni Sufi/Barelvi Fatwa in both English and Urdu with the
Sahih Hadith books references.
recent growth in Deobandi Tablighi Jamaat activities in Pakistan and
internationally provides a fertile ground for a fault finding mission among
other Muslims which leads to the religious motivation behind killing those that
are not considered “Good Muslims” (i.e., those who are not Deobandis or
Salafis/Wahhabis). Many Deobandi terrorists including those operating as
Taliban (TTP), Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (ASWJ-LeJ) are known to have emanated from the
Tablighi Jamaat. It should also be noted that the Tablighi Jamaat received
patronage from General Zia-u-Haq Deobandi, the military dictator of Pakistan.
The PMLN and Sharif brothers have very close links with the Tablighi Jamaat.
The Jamiat e Ulema e Islam (JUI) and Jamat e Islami too follow the same
Deobandi ideology. The funding comes from the petrodollars of Gulf
Monarchies, particularly from Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait and UAE.
its pacifist stance, Tablighi Jamaat has appeared on the fringes of numerous
terrorism investigations. One of the London 7/7 suicide bombers, Shehzad Tanweer, studied at the Deobandi seminary
in Dewsbury and Mohammad Sidique Khan, the
leader of the London 7/7 terror plot, was a regular worshipper at the adjoining
mosque. Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, was said to have
been influenced by Tablighi Jamaat, several of whose adherents were also among
those arrested last year over an alleged plot to blow up transatlantic
Not bowled over by Tablighi Jamaat
Tablighi Jamaat is not political (as yet).
This does not mean that it is a group bursting with sweetness and light. Far from it - it teaches world
domination by Islam; it does not recognize the nation state; and teaches the
doctrines such as the second class status of women and the sinfulness of both
interfaith dialogue and the toleration of non-Muslim religions.
In December 2006, one London Tablighi imam urged followers, including one of
VIGIL’s associates, to spend more time off work and on pilgrimage saying that
they had no excuses, especially in a country where they could claim all sorts
of state benefits. It is
true that Tablighi imams try as best they can to draw followers away from being
economically productive in the sense that they urge followers to devote more
and more of their time to the Tablighi cult – two days a week becomes two weeks
a month becomes six months a year.
The group is ridiculously
secretive – which can only foster outsider suspicions – and certainly its
Dewsbury headquarters is more Hitler’s bunker than, just as an example, the
welcoming open doors of equivalently proselytizing “happy-clappy” Christian
evangelical groups in operation in the UK. Its religious education programs are
discriminatory and promote intolerance. Its leadership prefers languages like
Urdu to English and its women folk are often dressed from head to toe – thus
erecting social barriers rather than dismantling them.
Tablighi Jamaat seek an Islamic society throughout the world, and that includes
Britain. At the last time of counting, 98.3 percent of Britons could think of
nothing worse than Britain as an Islamic Society. Perhaps this would explain
the findings of an ICM opinion poll in February 2007, to which the Labour MP
Sadiq Khan commented, “vast numbers of Muslims feel disengaged and alienated
from mainstream British society”… the British Muslim population is only 2.5
percent of the population.
The London Markaz should be prevented from being built – in the sense that the
last thing Britain, let alone London, needs is another “ghetto” (recall radical
Muslim Abu Izzadeen last year chiding the Home Secretary in Leytonstone for
visiting “Muslim land”) which the Markaz will promote in what is currently a
diverse part of the country where Tamils of various religions live peacefully
alongside Christians, Hindus, Muslims and Jews.
Pew Research Religion & Public Life Project
Theologically, the Tablighi Jama’at
movement is closely tied to the scriptural, conservative Deobandi school of
Sunni Islam, which emphasizes strict adherence to religious orthodoxy. Most of
the religious scholars and leaders associated with the Tablighi Jama’at are
followers of Deobandism.
Although Deobandism originated in South
Asia (in the town of Deoband, near Delhi in northern India), it has much in
common with the Wahhabi style of Islam that is associated with Saudi Arabia’s
religious establishment. However, Deobandi doctrine tends to be more flexible
than Wahhabism and is more accepting of other Islamic approaches, such as
Tableeghi Jamaat Exposed
The members of Tableeghi Jamaat have become
extremely unpopular with many communities of Muslims throughout the world and
even in South Africa. However, many continue to tolerate them. In fact, what
they do, in the manner of Christian evangelists, is to play on the guilt of
insecure people and then offer them an emotional environment in which they can
redeem themselves and find others in a similar plight who are ready for the
same treatment. Such "conversions" are frequently very superficial
and sometimes superficially quite dangerous for the individuals concerned.
As we have seen, the ludicrous claim is
made that the programme of the Tableeghi Jamaat comprises in every respect the
way followed by the Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) and his Companions
(radia'llahu 'anhum ajma'een), in their establishment of Islam. In fact, the
opposite is true. From its inception, the programme of the Tableeghi Jamaat was
designed, while giving the appearance of Islamic activity, to leave in place
the very Kaafir forces whose explicit intention was precisely the prevention of
the establishment of Islam in any real way. In the light of all the foregoing:
1. We declare that the Tableeghi Jamaat is, by
its own admission, a deviant sect of Islam and that it is being used by the
enemies of Islam to help them in their continuing battle to prevent governance
by the laws of Allah from being re-established in the world.
2. We therefore call on the leadership of the
Tableeghi Jamaat to acknowledge that they are directly responsible for the
misguidance of millions of Muslims and to abandon their present programme which
only furthers the interest of the enemies of Allah.
3. We therefore call on all members of the
Tableeghi Jamaat to reject the subversive role they have been unwittingly
persuaded to play and leave this sect which is being used by the enemies of
Islam to prevent Allah's Deen being restored and governance by His Laws
4. We therefore call on all Muslims to disown
the Tableeghi Jamaat and to discourage its activities by refusing to give its
members permission to sleep in mosques and to use them for their activities.
And we call on all Muslims to reject the modernist perspective of Islam that
they have been given to and respond to Allah and His Messenger (sallal laahu
alaihi wasallam) by giving their wealth and lives to see the totality of Islam
once again re-established on the earth.
What I don’t Like About The Tablighi
Despite my overall favorable impression of the
Tablighi Jamaat there are a few things about them that irk me.
I’m so tired of
hearing their members stand up after the prayers, and repeat the same speech,
in the same pitch, and in the same rhythm every single time.
Can we please get some variety?
It’s like each member has learned and memorized the
same speech and all they can do is repeat it every single time. It’s gotten to
the point where I don’t even bother to listen to their talks because I already
know exactly what they’re going to say.
Second, what’s with the 3 day, 40 day thing?
Some members of Tablighi Jamaat (not all for sure)
make the number of days you spend Fee Sabeelillah almost Waajib (compulsory).
They put a lot of emphasis on completing these different levels.
Once a group came to my local Masjid. I decided to
stay with them for the weekend. However, by the second day things happened and
I had to go home.
Mind you, I lived right down the block! Barely a 10
minute walk so it’s not like I was asking anyone to buy me a plane ticket back
home or ruining someone’s well-thought out plans.
Some of the
brothers in the Jamaat made me feel so guilty for not completing the full 3
days. What was happening at home meant nothing to them.
And once again, not everyone on this Jamaat acted like
this. A few brothers told me that if I had to go then it was okay and hopefully
I could come back another time.
However, I was a little peeved that some of them were
making it seem like I was abandoning one of the five pillars of Islam!This
activity was at best, a voluntary one for which Allah would reward us based on
our intentions and actions.
Finally, it may be beneficial if the members of the
Tablighi Jamaat would focus on attaining more Islamic knowledge outside of the
Jamaat. Many members seem to get to isolated within this group and neglect
their own Islamic education while calling others to the Masjid.
Obtaining more knowledge about Islam would certainly
improve their Da’wah efforts.
Of course, there are many scholars (ulemah) and
students of knowledge who are active participants in the Tablighi Jamaat. So I
don’t want you to get the impression that its full of a bunch of dummies.
But many of
them that I’ve met (keeping in mind that most of the Jamaats I’ve been on were
in the Americas) seemed to limit their Islamic perspective to that group alone.
Some of them do not take the time to broaden their Islamic knowledge outside of
The primary text the Tablighi Jamaat uses is one
called Faza’ili Amaal (Benefits of Good Deeds).
Those who criticize Jamaatul Tabligh say that this
book of full of weak and fabricated Hadiths.
I am not qualified to confirm or deny this claim.
I’ve heard people read from it, and have read some of
it myself. But I have never read it in depth, and haven’t read it at all in
I’m sure there’s a free pdf somewhere on the internet,
so I’ll probably download it and see what all the fuss is about.
given that there is so much criticism against this book, it would seem that the
members of Tablighi Jamaat could find another text to rely on. There are more
than enough hadith collections and unquestioned texts that they can read and
teach from without relying on Faza’ili Amaal.
That’s pretty much my take on the Tablighi Jamaat. I
would like to know what your opinions are about this group.
Positive? Negative? Neutral? Don’t really care?
Speak your mind!
Selected Readers’ Comments are as follows:
June 4, 2013 at 1:53 AM
Assalam Alaikum my dear brothers:
First a fall I say you people to go in Jamaat for
40 days. I don’t know how this happens, but with my real experience I’m 100%
sure that by going 40 days,4 months,1 year leaving your family,will make you
100% muslim INSHALLAH! INSHALLAH!INSHALLAH!
*Being with jamaat,again I don’t know how this happens, Our Imaan and
dheen(allah’s(swt) order,and prophet Muhammad(PBUH) life style)increases for a
greater level,with the time pass.
It is so sad,and unhappy to leave our family for a short period. yes it is
true.But if we take our packings and keep a step out of the house,the time
passes so quick,which means the time would spend so quick.
January 16, 2013 at 2:54 PM
Keep in mind that the whole Tablighi Jamat movement
did not just come about by way of a whole bunch of Pakistani brothers of
limited knowledge sitting around sipping Chai and looking for a distraction.
NO, this movement was started by great Shuyukh in India, known for their
religious learning, piety and sincerity. To say that they were wrong or
misguided or even that we could do it better, is a horrendous claim akin to
backbitting. We who have no knowledge cannot criticize the work of those who
have knowledge. Is the blind equal to the one who can see? Let us be careful of
being armchair internet critics and seek Allah’s forgiveness. And Allah knows
December 29, 2012 at 5:13 AM
I like tabligi jamat, and i think that it is final
solution of Muslim Ummah….
November 27, 2012 at 6:15 AM
Nice balanced artcle.
Just to add one
point regarding the book Fazail Amal , in the middle east , they use Riyadh Us
saleeheen instead which gets rid of this critisism. In fact , they are active
in Saudi Arabi and you will not hear them using Fazail Amal.
Also, some of the saudi sheikhs saw nothing wrong with
someone joing the TAblighi Jamaat – Shiekh Bin Baz gave some answers to this
effect, but later on he changed his opinion.
December 6, 2012 at 10:01 PM
12 basic rules when going out in Jammat. . 1 Less
sleeping, 2. Less eating, 3. Less worldly talk, 4. Less going out of masque. 5.
never take anything without the permission, 6. Never desire to ask for
something from any one other then Allah. 7. Never disrespect any one, 8. Never
leave without informing the leader. 9. Give excessive dawah, 10. Perform
excessive ziker and worship reading Quran and hadiths. 11. Give excessive
service to your brothers in jamaat and the guests who may join at any given
time. 12. Excessive learning and teaching.
Dear brothers, I have been spending time with the jamaat for over 20 years,
though have never gone for more than 10 days at a time, but each time I went
the rules above were mentioned. Now if people like myself do not follow them
then it would not be fare to call the whole effort as being wrong. Would it?
This I found to be a mobile school. I could go on and on with all the benefits
that are being driven with this effort, but it will serve you no good. I humbly
request my brothers to go out and check it out for yourselves; The worst
scenario would be that you would have lost some time out of your life. But
again we all are well aware of our time management. Have we not lost time
elsewhere? So what if a bit more is lost and I will be sure of what it is all
about. So Insha Allah pack up and come to your nearest mosque.
September 6, 2012 at 5:39 PM
Assalamu alaikum all………..
I read your brothers articles with interest. I have
good experience with the Tabligh Jamaat(TJ) both as a participant in the 3 day
thing and also as a masjid secretary who arranged their jamaat at times.
My experience is of a mixed one. while its good to
guide people back to islam, it is also our duty to give dawah to non muslims as
it will be questioned in the hereafter.
Another thing is that based on my experience, the
individuals are using the jamaat as a way of pleasure…excessive sleeping, using
mobiles etc. The also disrespect people of other madhabs..
The hold the
fazail amaal as the only book to base their arguments, the book also contain
false hadiths i heard and grave worshipping artcles.
lecture they hold is same after same..
The TJ was started from
India and they still hold many innovations.
... As a community we are more reactionary and obscurantist that positive and progressive. We live in fear and denial. There is nothing wrong with us; it’s all Jewish conspiracy, Hindu conspiracy, Western imperialist conspiracy, etc. etc. We love living in the past, in the land of pointlessness. So our discussions too are not so much about issues of today as about the bygone past. We revel in discussing ad infinitum the dirty politics of seventh century Arabia and taking sides with one or the other party. We have no present and no plans for the future. As a community, that is. Some individuals, of course, do have plans for themselves as well as for the community and a vision of regeneration for Islam and the Muslim community. But they are reviled for thinking of this word rather than the other world where 72 houris are waiting for them impatiently in a land of milk and honey and of course, plenty of liquor. (In the case of poor women, of course, only their husbands, if any, would be waiting there, and yet some of them become suicide bombers, for some reason.) --Sultan Shahin, Editor, New Age Islam
Let us resolve to keep helping Muslims in the New Year mapping an agenda for Islam in the Twenty-first century – the task New Age Islam has set before itself.
Islam is of course, a universal Deen, for all people in every corner of the world and for all times to come; but in order to fulfil its destiny it has to keep reinventing itself in every new age; it has to be rethought and reinterpreted in the light of the orthodox Islamic principles of Ijtihad, the gates of which were opened for us by Allah and the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and no Muslim has the right to close them down.
The pace of change has accelerated so much in the last decades that our very way of life has become quite distinct even from the recent past. How does the Islamic way of life mesh into and cope with the demands of the New Age is the major challenge before us Muslims, that too at a time when we have not only vast numbers of Muslim societies in nearly all parts of the world varying from one another in our social norms and customs, but also a vast number of interpretations of Islam resulting in deep sectarian divisions. While for enemies of Islam in the extortionist and exploitative sections of human society Islam is one religion and Muslims are one religious community the world over, for Muslims themselves there are scores of Islams and scores of Muslim communities, nearly all baying for each others’ blood. We apparently need to reboot Islam in our systems.
A number of Fatawahs have been issued against Dr. Zakir Naik. The Muftees of Deoband had said that he should not be trusted but the Barailwees have crossed all limits. They have asserted that he should be dealt like an infidel "Kafir" and should be excluded from the Muslim community. This was stated by a Barailwee Mufti of Lucknow and it has not been opposed by any of the learned persons of Barailwee thought. The concerned Mufti has demanded from the government to put a ban on the PEACE channel of Dr. Zakir Naik and the fund he is raising should be examined but there is no mention of the wrong beliefs on which basis this Fatwah is issued. Of course it said that he is provoking the young Muslims for terrorism and he favours Osama bin Laden. The question is not whether he is doing this or not. The question is: even if the two charges are authentic or even if any of the two allegations is correct, should he be excluded or banished from Islam or not? If it is correct that Dr. Zakir Naik supports terrorism, the law should take its course but it is not for the Muftiyan to deliver judgments….Such deviated people should try to ponder over their thinking and the ways of dealing with such critical matters. The difference of opinion in the interpretation of spiritual Islamic matters is quite possible but such differences should be sorted out by perfect spiritual and factual reasons and Islamic knowledge in the light of the Quran Kareem and Hadees Shareef, not by denouncing and giving decrees of infidelity (Kufr, Shirk and Fajoor).
NewAgeIslam.com presents Maulana Nadeem-ul-Wajidi’s impassioned plea for Muslims to behave with sense. Translated from Urdu by Raihan Nezami, NewAgeIslam.com
His no-fly nightmare
U.S. citizen spends 10 days detained in the Bangkok airport. He thinks his name
made a secret list.
Ahmed and his likes who are staunch supporter of “Tablighi Jamaat” must come to
senses once of these days. Can any respective reader on the New Age Islam forum
be sure to see to it that Honorable Naseer Saheb catch up reading about a young
Memon man, Rehan Motiwala, who got caught in a very sticky situation. The story
goes as follows:
Motiwala, whose parents
are of Pakistani origin, was not told why he might be on the list. A likely
possibility, however, is his contact with Tablighi Jamaat, a conservative
Muslim missionary movement based in South Asia.
He took leave from
medical school last year, traveled to Pakistan to visit relatives and went on
to Indonesia to work with the group, members of which go around the world
proselytizing for Islam.
Tablighi Jamaat is widely
regarded as peaceful and apolitical, and claims millions of followers, but U.S.
and European law enforcement officials have raised questions about possible
connections to radical Islam.
John Walker Lindh, an
American who converted to Islam, met Tablighi missionaries in California before
joining the Taliban to fight U.S. forces in Afghanistan. British security
officials allege that two of the suicide bombers who attacked the London
transit system in 2005 had attended a Tablighi Jamaat mosque.
Motiwala first heard of
the movement when he arrived last year in Karachi, the Pakistani mega-city
where his family members live. Inspired by the Tablighis' devotion, he began
attending their meetings, improved his Urdu language skills, grew a beard and
shed his Western clothes for a Pakistani shalwar kameez, a long tunic.
"They were very
welcoming," Motiwala said. "We would ask people to come pray at the
mosque, talk about the greatness of God, sit in gatherings and listen to
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia being a “Fool”
according to Naseer Saheb somehow do possess a small dose of intelligence to realize
the exact result of what brainwashing by the “Tablighi Jamaatis” can do to an
American Muslim, let alone all the Muslim youths in the Indian subcontinent.
For now, while we all can keep on wondering as to what made Naseer
Saheb switch to “Observer” status, but it seems like his sole aim is not to
observe, but to disrupt any reasonable arguments. Perhaps, someone better wise
him up to reflect upon Immanuel Kant’s quote as follows:
“Have the courage to use your own reason. That is the
motto of enlightenment.”
yet, it will be best if all the readers on this forum follow the link of Los
Angeles Times to find out why a medical student born in the United States of
America and hailing from Anaheim, California wound up with long beard and
shalwar kameez? What is this strange love affair with the beards? Is this how
Muslims should portray the image of Islam?
Thanks again for listening, I remain
Very respectfully yours, firstname.lastname@example.org
Ahmed Saheb’s while writing about Immanuel Kant’s philosophy somehow forgot his
Religion is the
recognition of all of our duties as divine commands.
we the Muslims must do now is to finally come to a foregone conclusion that we have
deviated far away from the commandments of our Holy Quran. That is just
the bottom line, period.
Dare to think! Dare to know!
Naseer Saheb did not dared think about the consequences of using the screen
name “Observer.” Not
only this, he does not even want to know about the reports that are being
published about the activities of “Tabligh Jamaat.” Just like he covered his
name, he also want to cover up the sins of Tablighis. Don’t forget in one of
his comments, he literally saluted their wisdom.
more thing, if any one of you would like to read more quotes of Immanuel Kant, then
the link: http://myfellowmuslims.org/?page_id=247
again for reading, I remain
To: Naseer Ahmed alais
the below comment very carefully and then figure out what went wrong? What made
you to switch your good name? How will you respond to a reader named Raihan
Janab Ghulam Mohiyuddin Saheb: I am
very much obliged to you as out of extreme modesty, you have bracketed me with
the exceptionally learned genius intelligentsia and Islamic scholars as well
like Mohammad Yunus sb, Sultan Shahin sb, Naseer Ahmed sb which I simply don’t deserve.
Actually this place belongs to you or Janab Manzoorul Haque sb and many more on
this site, who have proved their wisdom and scholarship. Plainly speaking it is
an insult to them to be grouped with me except on condition that we all are
Muslims and May Allah Kareem keep us united with all other Muslims. This group has been the source
of Islamic knowledge and rational thinking for the miniature like me and
numerous other readers on this site. I am common Muslim who expresses what he
thinks out of his little basic knowledge of Islam. So please let me remain a
simple learner of these scholars what I please to do here.
By Raihan Nezami - 10/28/2012 11:29:17 PM
before you insult another Muslim on account of not being able to answer the
concerns raised in a straight manner, then person like Raihan Nezami will start to
question your scholarly integrity? What more can I say, Naseer Ahmed Saheb?
Let me give you a piece
of advice. Do not presume anything. Quote me to make your point.
then, you once stated, ‘As far as treatment of other people is concerned, it
should be consistent with respect for their dignity.” This sentence was in your
article titled, “Islam
and Kant’s Principle of Morality” dated August 9, 2012.
you tell me what went wrong when you read my comments and try to portray as if
I am a “Fool” and an “Ultimate Scavenger.” Of course, I am not presuming here,
but wasn’t it you who defined my personality as such without respecting the
dignity of another human? You wrote in length about “Morality,” then for crying out loud what
on earth happened?
I have not asked you or
anyone to like Tablighi Jamat, much less join it. As a matter of fact, I
mentioned that I have my own personal reasons for keeping away from it.
then, you mentioned that you have your own personal reasons for keeping away
from “Tabligh Jamaat.” If that be the case, then why don’t you list all the
major and minor reasons for keeping away from the missionary organization which
you continue to claim as pious and holy? You are an intelligent man who can twist
and turn with your words, though a
simple explanation jotting down the well thought out reasons will suffice.
The simple debate here is
that apart from your personal whims, you have no objective reason to oppose the
Tablighi Jamat nor is there any justification for anyone to consider all non
Barelvi sects as Wahabi.
then, where did you spotted the personal whims? Share your thoughts so that the
readers on the New Age Islam forum can also be duly enlightened by your
response. It is better that a scholar like you set the record straight once and
for all. If Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia is such a scavenger as you so claim, then at
least make a sincere attempt to explain to me as to that that I can repent. Naseer
Ahmed Saheb, I am all ears.
No, Naseer Sb., Taliban are not sub-human. They are very much human and also
very much Muslim. Humans and Muslims should deal with that. In any case, I have
no power to throw people out of humanity or Islam. Don't wash your hands off
them either as a human or as a Muslim. Introspect, why and how, through what
processes, under what circumstances, can humans and Muslims turn into such
dastardly killers of innocent men, women and children and have their action be
considered pure Islam, leading them to heaven. How can very well educated
theologians justify their actions as in accordance with Quran and Sunnah?
Persuading to become a suicide bomber must be the most difficult job in the
world. Well nigh impossible. But how come an army of Muslim suicide bombers is
available wherever you need them. Does this not bother you?
And, no, I a not targeting a single individual of any sect, only the
ideology of hate and violence, that too largely because, this ideology calls
itself pure Islam. I have a different view of Islam. This is y religion. So
when Abdul Wahhab says that even if some one is a Muwahhid, he cannot be
a true Muslim unless he carries hate and enmity in his heart towards
Mushrikeen and Munafiqeen and shows it in his speech and action, I cannot
help getting angry. You apparently agree with him, so you don't like him being
quoted and shown as a hateful creature and an enemy of Islam. You will say you
don't agree with him, then what is the problem. Why should his ideology not be
exposed? Why should Muslims not be asked to distance themselves from this
There are other ideologies of hate in the world and we should all oppose
them too. But charity should begin with home. Le us first tackle our own
hatemongers. Calling them sub-human or kafir and washing our hands off
them is an easy way out that I don't want to take. In fact these are not
way outs at all.
Naseer Sb., Why is quoting Wahhab's line on how Muslims should treat non
Muslims"a very sectarian position?"
I want Muslims to know what is the origin of terrorism? Why is Tablighi
Jamaat seeking to wean Muslims away from their culture? Where is all this hate
coming from? Why should Muslims not know what is the philosophy of Abdul
Wahha and Ibn-e-Taimiya that is being so aggressively peddled by the
Saudi-Wahhabi state? We are in the middle of a war. Tomorrow you could be
killed f you decided to visit a Sufi shrine for whatever reason. You cold have
ben killed in the Patna blasts. Why should Muslims not know what and who is
behind all this. Why is quoting Taimiya and Abdul Wahhab's hateful comments
towards all non-Muslims (including 90 per cent of Muslims) so very
sectarian? Why should we not protect ourselves from Wahhabism, the
ne-Kharji ideology of our era?
I believe It is important for us to know and also to refute this hateful
ideology.Yunus Saheb is engaged in this task, the most important task before
Muslims of today that unfortunately no one else is doing. He is also engaged in
presenting a viable and coherent moderate narrative. An equally important, if
not even more important task before the Muslim community.
I told you I found the brief narrative of our core ideology unexceptionable
and very well put. I particularly liked the part about democracy and Islam.
This is precisely my view. This site needs people like you who can carry tis
message forward. That is why I even ignore your foul language. But you must
understand that refuting hate ideologies within Islam is equally important. Our
first priority should be to fight this war. We cannot afford to be squeamish
about things when someone is standing with a sword over our necks.
However, if this hate is coming from non-Wahhabi ideologies, expose that
too. Refute that too. New Age Islam as a website has no problem with that
whatsoever. I showed to you Deobandi ideologue Maulana Nadeemul Wajidi's
article refuting Barailwi fatwa against Zakir Naik. We translated that in
English and presented to our readers long before you were associated with the
site. I am against all takfir. I would not even like to wash my hands off the
Taliban, saying I do not consider them Muslim. We have to accept that they come
from an old Islamic strain of extremism that has nearly always been with us in
history, sometimes dominant, sometimes dormant.
Observer alais Naseer Ahmed
You wrote, “On this very site, I was teaming up quite well with
Muhammad Yunus Sb to debate on important topics with people to make them
understand the true message of Islam which as we all agree is pluralistic,
inclusive, peaceful, compassionate and just.”
Well then, teach this “Fool” about the ways of “Tabligh Jamaat” so that I can learn your ways
of Islam that is pluralistic, inclusive, peaceful, compassionate and just.
Tell me, Tablighis going away to faraway lands by leaving their
sick parents and pregnant wives is a compassionate act, Mr. Scholar? Trust me,
I am all ears to hear your views. You seem to be truly dodging to answer such
sensitive questions. Be bold and courageous to tell the “Truth.”
have already labelled me with all sorts of names. Now at least act like a “Gentleman” to answer the “Ultimate Scavenger.” Remember
that, Janab Naseer Ahmed Saheb.
if you cannot do it, then I will take all your messages directed to me and show
the whole Muslim world. This is not a threat, but it is a fact of life. “Certified Muslim
Bashers” must finally be exposed for misleading the Muslim youths.
So you never use foul language, Naseer Saheb.
So this is what must have happened in Ghulam Mohiyuddin Saheb's case as well.
"I do not use foul language. I nail a lie and call `slander' slander. I respond to rudeness with rudeness. Foul Language never. Lies never."
right. How can a fool become educated? You tell me Mr. Scholar? You are making
a bigger fool by trying to run away from answering.
the rightist movement. That’s just another spin which Muslim intellectuals uses
when the facts comes out in the public square.
are a perfect camouflage. You are too busy and want to undermine the religion of
Islam by continuing to support “Tabligh Jamaat” who rely less on Holy Quran, but
more on the fabricated Hadiths and their own fairy tales. And then you call them the most holiest of
Islamic organization? That’s a joke of the century, Mr. Observer.
you should be responding to all the posts which this fool is directing towards you.
Don’t you want a fool to learn? Then teach me why “Tabligh Jamaat” is good for
all the Muslims to join? Perhaps, you can win me your way so that I can save
money by not purchasing Gillette shaving cream any more, and will certainly give
up my “Loongi” and wear “Kurta & Pyjama” for good. Is that what you
desire all Muslims to do?
more thing, you have to do one hell of a job to convince me that “Tabligh
Jamaat” holds on to the commandments of Holy Quran. If you cannot prove it,
then you are just another one of those intellectuals who are busy misguiding
the Muslim Ummah.
Of course, Dawood Ibrahim does what ISI tells him. You said he supports Lashkar-e-Taiba. Of course, he must be. He would support all Wahhabi terrorist organisations, as he is working for ISI. These are creations of Pakistan's ISI for which he works.
But why is he relevant in a thread about growth of Wahhabism in India? He is not a Wahhabi ideologue, is he? Is that your contention? He is a criminal turned ISI-supported terrorist. Such people do not require any kind of indoctrination. He is not relevant in an ideology-related discussion. He is just a diversion created by someone who wants to stop people from discussing the bane of Wahhabism. He is not a Wahhabi; he is not a Sufi. Far from bring any kind of ideologue. He is a criminal, a Mafia Don, a Terrorist. India should get hold of him. He has caused us much grief. He is not going to give you any reward either for elevating him to the position of an Imam comparable to Imam ibn-e-Taimiya.
Mr. Observer alais Naseer
“Let us close this debate.” Why do you want to close it?
Why are you afraid to give an honest to goodness answer to my comments?
For sure, you cannot and the only reply will be your usual bully
way of answering. What else is new, Mr. Observer?
Read your own comment as follows:
After all this discussion, I
find that no one has a single objective reason to oppose the Jamat. One could
still dislike it for personal reasons. If people accept this the debate end.
How am I distracting anyone? If people have not been able to come up with a
single objective reason to denounce the Jamat but only engage in sectarian rhetoric
am I to blame?
No, you are not to be blamed, but instead, you must read the
articles, view the Youtube video and ponder over few comments about “Tabligh Jamaat” so that you
will be able to permanently stop your spin. You have thus far skilfully avoided
answering in a scholarly manner.
The word to the wise is
You are right Naseer Saheb, I never wanted you to leave, to hound you out,
or something like that you said. I just want you to discuss Wahhabism in this
thread that is about the growing influence of Whhabism in India, starting from
an article in The Hindu. If the subject you want to discuss is Takfirism in
Islam or specifically non-violent Barailvi Takfirism, write an article on
the subject. My offer is long standing from the time you used to use your real
name. Probably scores of time I have asked you to write about the subject you
want to discuss. But do not bring in extraneous issues on this and other threads
about other issues. That will only be construed as a diversionary
tactic. An attept at not letting us discuss the bane of Wahhabism.
On this thread you can defend Wahhabism, though. Do that by all means.
You never do that. Like Mohd Yonus Rational, you just want something else to be
discussed, not Wahhabi radicalism.
As for our foul language no one on this forum has been safe. Maybe this is
one of Kant's teachings. For, I know Islam did not teach uncivilized behaviour.
So we are all by now used to that. But it is important for new readers also to
know that Observer is the same good old Naseer Saheb, doing everything, saying
everything that he has done or said before. I am not roping in Ghulam Mohiyudin
Saheb – what for? – I am telling you why I have become immune to the foulness
of your language.If some one like him is no safe, no one is. In any case “subhumans” on this frum should
not be very sensitive.
However, I still hope that now that Wahhabi terrorism has allegedly reached
your neighbourhood in Patna, maybe you start getting worried about Tablighis,
ahl-e-Hadeesis and all other Wahhabis. I hope you were safe from the noise and
smoke of Patna blasts.
Mr. Naseer Ahmed – How would you analyze this
Eccentric answered 6 years ago
A new sect of Islam is known as Tablighi jam at.
They don't think they are new but they have invented many new things in Islam
which never before. like high ankle pajama, long beard, always keep a small
stick (Miswaak) in hand, they don't read whole Quran, just few selected Ayats.
They focus more on some corrupted Hadiths rather than Quran. their focus is to
change the outer looks of a Muslims. their aim is to do some selected Ibaadat
and nothing else. they think, its Haraam to indulge oneself in worlds affair.
according to them pictures TV radio and every new things invented is Haraam.
As far as Daawa is concern they just misguide people. asked them to leave their
homes their small kids, their wives, their old parents and traveled with them
for Dawah which is totally unacceptable in Islam.
they only focus to give Daawa to Muslims only. They rarely give Daawa to non Muslims.
as they don't have enough knowledge of Islam to discuss with non Muslims. they
think asking question about religion is Haraam. they discouraged Muslims to ask
questions about religion. they also discourged women to work outside. to go out
side without full BURQA. they are very strict with their women.
Source: I have written
above from my own personal experiences …
Mr. Not Quite So Good Of
Mr. Observer wrote: Mr Lodhia, the
scavenger that you are, you can be expected to unload truckloads of garbage. I
ignored your garbage the first time also but responded when you insisted on a
response and made clear why I did not wish to engage with you further.
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s rebuttal: Bullying tactic. That is all you must
have learned from your “Tabligh Jamaat.” Sultan Shahin Saheb was nice enough to
endorse your qualification as a “Scholar.” Having stated this by him and
having read the same by me, I remain dumbfounded as to why the word “Decency”
does not exist in your Tablighi dictionary?
Mr. Observer wrote: A massive and very successful
movement such as the Tablighi Jamat will have a large number of people, who are
to the right of the center who will be be opposed to it and will attack it with
innuendo. You will find plenty of innuendo but nothing that sticks. Why do I
have to tell you this if you had the good sense to know this yourself?
And why should I waste my time on you any further?
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s rebuttal: Quite
conveniently, you skipped reading what I expressed in my rebuttal to you about
“Tabligh Jamaat” devotees’ behavior. Of course, what matters to you, is your own
version only, and the hell with other’s viewpoints.
Mr. Observer wrote: The Indian
intelligence agencies also keep a tab on it activities as they do for any other
similar organization and the proof of its clean chit is that the TJ was the
only Jamat/Sangh that was not banned during the emergency years.
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s rebuttal: Why not at least make an
honest attempt to read the reports which I posted on New Age Islam? A genuine scholar
should never ever be “Intellectually Dishonest” so to speak.
Mr. Observer wrote: The fact that the
"modern" Muslim' is uncomfortable with his Muslim identity makes him
very apprehensive about the Jamat. Their dislike for the Jamat is
understandable but likes or dislikes are personal whims.
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s rebuttal: I have no
use for “Cult.” Any religious association that insists upon certain dress codes,
and on top of that it, demands the followers to sport beards. Wearing kurta and ankle height pyjama
does not reflect the true image of Islam. Show me one Quranic verse which
states something about “Beards,” or for that matter, any particular
uniform dresses to run the Islamic Jamaats around the globe. Can you, Mr.
Mr. Observer wrote: For any person
who is following the debate, it should be apparent
no person has been able to put forth an objective reason for opposing the
Tablighi Jamat and as a matter of fact no country in the world has found an
objective reason to curb the activities of the Jamat.
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s rebuttal:
You are not a blind scholar, or are you? You can certainly read everything that
suits you. Why don’t you read the article by Alex Alexiev titled “Tablighi
Jamaat: Jihad’s Stealthy Legions,” and then brag about how holy
is your “Tabligh Jamaat.”
Mr. Observer wrote:
The vicious attack on the Jmat has now turned into a personal attack simply
because you have lost the debate. The opposition is simply the Barelvi
opposition to what is known as a Deobandi Jamat.
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s rebuttal: What
nonsense? I do not give a hoot about Barelvi nor Deobandi. Mind you that the
young American Muslims do not even care about all such stupidity. Go preach to
the uneducated ones who will blindly follow “Tabligh Jamaat.” Keep the Muslim
youth backward and train them to continue to bicker all day long. What sort of
mindset do you possess, Mr. Observer? You know that the “Curiosity” is
roving on Mars
here you are involved in petty disputes about Barelvi and Deobandi. Wake up! We
are now living in the 21st century.
Mr. Observer wrote: Neither Shahin Sb nor others
will respond to the certificate given by the Sufi/Barelvi website Noore Madinah
which criticises the Jamat for eschewing violent Jehad and for not having
anything in its programme that inconveniences a "kafir" government.
While it is the ultimate endorsement by a hostile sect, it also reveals mindset
of the Sufi/Barelvi
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia: I could care less about any “Certificates.”
As a learned man and a scholar, you should at least possess “Moral Sense”
to keep the discourse at a respectable level instead of using the bullying
tactics to debate with your fellow Muslims. Shame on you!
On the Tablighis, I wrote to you this. Plus there is plenty of material on the internet and libraries. You can even see Tablighi-afflicted Muslims walking on the streets in Patna looking like weirdoes from the distant past. Is this how you want Muslims to look and behave?
Mr. Naseer Ahmed, any one who knows anything about Tablighis
knows that this organisation was started with the purpose of alienating Muslims
from their cultural practices and their civilisational milieu and has been
doing that successfully with support of intellectuals like you. Most people do
not announce their nefarious designs in books. As you said, they come from
Deobandi-Wahhabi stream and have been spreading supremacism, exclusivism,
obscurantism and fundamentalism of all sorts, creating a very conducive
environment for extremism, radicalism, militancy to grow. I do not,
however, expect apologists for Saudi-Wahhabism to accept this. I cannot
believe, however, that you do not know this. it is common knowledge how
and why Tablighi Jamaat came into being any why Saudi state gives it such
massive support. By Sultan Shahin - 11/25/2013 11:38:21 AM
This too requires your attention:
are no Jehadis among Sufi/ Barelvis. Now is the time for you to bring in Mafia
Don Dawood Ibrahim and the murderer of Salman Taseer who visited Sufi shrines
like the rest of the Muslim community minus Wahhabis.
there are many normal Muslims who are becoming militant now. Indeed until a few
decades ago most of the community was peaceful and believed in co-existence and
pluralism. Don't forget that the Pashtun community from where the Taliban come
was Gandhian follower of Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan not very long ago. Now don't
start blaming Gandhism for terrorism. Sarhadi Gandhi had learnt Gandhian
non-violence not from Mahatma Gandhi, but from Islam.
the intrusion of Saudi-Wahhabism that turned many of the same people into
terrorists. Now they justify wanton violence against innocent civilians
according to their ideology that they call pure Islam.
one who looks at Islam as a peaceful religion must oppose that. Of course,
those who think Islam is a religion of terrorism and violence, supremacism and
obscurantism, will support them. One of the ways of supporting them is to
divert all discussion about Wahhabism towards other sects and shortcomings of
other sects. This is the route you and Mohammad Yunus rational have chosen.
would advise other moderates on the site not to fall in this trap and maintain
their focus on presenting Islam as a religion of moderation.
personal request is to view this YouTube video and let someone on this forum
make sure that Honorable Scholar Naseer Ahmed can at least make a comment after
listening to this video clipping.
Shahin Saheb, please be kind to encourage the New Age Islam forum respective
readers to set the record straight about “Tabligh Jamaat.” If you do not, then
the so-called scholar will continue to spin his own theory and get everyone
running around in circles over and over again. I say, it is high time to prove
Naseer Ahmed Saheb wrong.
Naseer Sb., The comment you are quoting from is this. Full Text:
Mr. Naseer Ahmed, you bring in Sufi/Bareilwis only to distract moderates' attention from the subject. We are discussing the growing influence of Wahhabi Islam in India. However, you do not want this subject discussed, so, like mohd yunus rational, keep bringing in other issues, whatever issues will rescue your sect.
Sadaf tells a story. The actual story which I related is a
beautiful one which is why I related it and only a pervert can distort a
beautiful story the way Sadaf has done.
Shahin Sb has quickly added
his corroboration. “Of course, I know that what you
have pointed out is true and based on his own previous comments”!!!
Let me put the record straight. I
have not been in the employment of any non-Indian company nor had any
non-Indian bosses ever. I have had foreign nationals reporting to me as I worked
for an International company.
Now you can see to what depths these
people are capable of sinking just to take you down with them. They will sink
by themselves only.
No, Naseer Sahe, the boys allegedly involvd in Patna blasts were not
ideologues, but they were preachers and foot soldiers of Ahl-e-Hadees sect.
This sect is based on the hate ideology of Ib-e-Taimiya on which other Wahhabi
sects too are based. There is no indication that these boys were criminals as
has Dawood Ibrahim been all his life. It's because these boys who could
very well be involved in doing good for society or at least themselves or their
families, living ordinary, happy lives, ad they not been lured by
ahl-e-Hadeesis into terrorism. Why don't you understand one simple thing: all
present-day Islamist terrorists belong to one or the other Wahhabi sect or sub-sect?
They have all undergone Wahhabi brainwashing either in schools or madrasas or
terrorist training camps run by terrorist organizations.
Patna or Ranchi boys worry me because this may be an indication of the storm
to come. Do you want your country to become another Pakistan? Or Afghanistan?
Many Bangladeshis are worried today, mulling over the same apprehension. Oh
God, they say in the headlines of their articles, let not Bangladesh become
another Pakistan or Afghanistan! Why do you an Indian Muslim not worry about
the same possibility when you see storm clouds gathering, a few drops starting
to fall? Don't you know that most victims of the Wahhabi violence are Muslims,
be they Shia or Sufi or Brailwi or Ahmadi, and, of course, a few Christian and
Hindu. So the first targets of Wahhabis are non-Wahhabi Muslims.
These children, now youth, were not gangsters or criminals of any sort. They
became terrorists because they were brainwashed into accepting this ideology of
hate. How many more of our children re being brainwashed now, right under your
nose. You know Taimites, consider Ibn-e-Taimiya the glory of Bihar. You live in
Patna, You should be worried. Though the Champaran district of Bihar has the
so-caled Taimiya University, the largest Taimi madrasa actually, all over India
are new madrasas being built calling themselves proudly Salafi or Taimi. Not
only Biharis like us, indeed all Indian Muslims should be worried. Our children
are being snatched from us and being turned into bombs. Try to protect them.
Fight this hate ideology How does it matter if some people go to Sufi shrines,
show their respect, along with teir Hindu and Sikh brethren, bow down or as
Wahhabis would say worship the graves. They are not disturbing world’s peace.
Why should they be killed? Why should the shrines they rever be demolished? These
people are not even responding to violence with counter-violence. Nowhere in
the world are Sufis retaliating. Hundreds of Sufi shrines have been demolished in
Africa in recent years by Wahhabi militant organisatin Boko Haram and the Like.
But Sufis are behaving wth the patience and equanimity that Islam taught us
You have said the following:
“That Saudis are deploying talented
people like you to infiltrate extraneous issues into the discussion,
shows that probably they are getting desperate at the entire world
understanding their game and condemning their attempt to colonise Muslim minds
through organisations like Tablighi Jamaat.
I assure you peaceful Islam will defeat
you. Your petrodollars and American, Zionist support to Jihadism is not going
to save Wahhabism.”
Prove what you said or else it is slander
bey definition and that makes you a slanderer.
Earlier also you tried to drag in Ghulam Mohyiddin
Sb on a matter that is closed between us. He presumed something and I proved
that to be wrong and I have since treated his wrong presumption as a
misunderstanding and not a deliberate lie. Stop trying to spread your mischief
and trying to enlist support.
Saheb, Thanks for the link giving an article by my former colleague and
Pakistani counterpart with Asia Times Online late and martyred (in the cause of
freedom of expression, killed by ISI) Syed Saleem Shahzad. I am quoting below
some more portions from the report available on http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/EJ22Df07.html
I don't see,
however, how it established him as a Sufi ideologue of the stature of
Wahhabi imams like Ibn-e-Taimiya or MohammadIbn-e-Abdul Wahhab or even
Syed Qutub or Maulana Abul Ala Maudoodi, as you present him as. It would be
better if you quoted from some of his books on Islamic theology in which he
must be advocating Jihad against non-Muslims in the manner Taimiya, Wahhab or
Qutub and Maudodi do. In any case here is Shahzad on Dwood Ibrahim from your
Karachi, Dawood, known as David or Bhai (brother), earned a reputation in the
city's underworld for his religious beliefs, passion, and his network was well
"In earlier days, religion was not a major issue
for Dawood. But after moving to Karachi his interaction with members of the
former Mumbai community (Memons, Kathiawaris, Gujratis and Kokanis) who had
settled in the city before and after the partition of British India in 1947,
introduced him to some business-cum-religious-cum-political figures, such as
Haji Hanif Tayyab and Amin Pardesi.
"This entire circle, including Dawood, is Barelvi,
a religious sect to which Muslims of the India-Pakistan region belong and which
is diametrically different from the Wahhabi (Salafi) and Deobandi schools of
thought that characterize religious militancy. The Barelvi school places
emphasis on paying respect to tombs and shrines, and it believes that the
bodies in shrines can bestow blessings on those who visit them. The Barelvi
school does not deal much with the issues of vice and virtue, and jihad has
never been a part of this sect.
"Conversely, the Wahhabi and Deobandi schools do
not believe in shrines, indeed, they would like to see them all demolished, and
they preach that only Allah can bestow blessings if one prays to him. They are
also very strict on matters of vice and virtue, and jihad is one of the most
emphasized chapters of their teachings.
"When Maulana Masood Azhar (founder of the
banned militant Sunni Islamic group Jaish-i-Mohammed) was detained in India,
somebody asked Dawood to use his contacts to have him released. Dawood's
straight response was: "Impossible, he is a Deobandi."
"The Lashkar-i-Taiba, another militant group
that is active in Jammu and Kashmir, is even more extremist compared to the
Deobandis. It does not even accept clean-shaven people into its organization.
Before any military training, members have to undertake a course lasting
several months to ensure that the recruit is compatible with the set standards
of vice and virtue. These facts could not be unknown to intelligence quarters,
including the CIA.
"And it was
not as if Dawood made much effort to keep a low profile. Whether in Dubai or
Karachi, he was courted by top South Asian cricketers for his cricket betting
activities. Similarly, with regard to Bollywood, hardly a film could be
produced in India without investment from Dawood. Dawood's guests were always
lavishly entertained, and the best Scotch whiskies flowed, even in a dry
Naseer Ahmed, If, as you point out, Mafia Don Dawood " Ibrahim has
been helping finance increasing attacks in Gujarat by LeT,"
(Lashkar-e-Tayyeba), which, of course, is a Wahhabi organization, how does he
become a Sufi ideologue?
Then, in any
case, Dawood Ibrahim being a representative of Sufi-Bareilwi community is a
preposterous idea that even normal Wahhabis do not entertain. Do you know of
any other Wahhabi crazy enough to present Sufism as an ideology of terror
because one of the visitors of a Sufi shrine happens to be a Mafia Don? Has any
one heard anything more ridiculous than that?
called me a liar. But you haven't told me what did I lie about. I don't mind
these abuses from you, however, because if someone can slander and abuse
some one as senior and balanced as Ghulam Mohiyuddin Saheb, then he can do
anything. In any case you have done this before with me and others. You will
see now why I need to use your real name. How else will readers find out
what did you call GM Saheb? How else would readers also find out the truth of
what Mr. Sadaf wrote about you, based on your tales of indebtedness to Saudi
friends or masters, whatever they were?
It must be a
suitable subject for a psychiatric study what circumstances can make someone so
blind and crazy with hate for his father's religion as to go to this
extraordinary length merely to prove that not just a small section of his
religious community but the entire Islamic community is terrorist and the
religion itself is synonymous with terror. Both you and Mohammad Younus
Rational Saheb deserve such a study and if possible help.
would still like you simply to not use threads about Wahhabism to engage in
Sufi/Baailei-bashism. You can very well write an article about the
trend of Takfirism in Islam, started by Kharjites, followed by Ibn-e-Taimiya
and Abdul Wahhab (both violent) then also Ahmed Reza Khan (whose followers are
non-violent). In this thread he can engage in Barailvi-bashism, which is not a
priority issue for us as they are not violent and do not engage in terrorism,
but after all we moderates on this forum are against all takfiri practices,
even if non-violent.
should not be using this anti-Sufism of yours as a diversionary tactic to
keep us from discussing terrorist ideologies and refuting them.
TRUE COLOURS OF TABLIGH JAMAT
18, 2010 by mthago
Tabligh Jamat is an Islamic movement that has portrayed
itself throughout the whole world as a dakwah movement. The movements
originated from India in the early nineteen centuries. It has portrayed itself
as a very noble job and they claim that the work done by Tabligh Jamat is very
similar to the works of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w and their companions. It also
portrayed itself as a work that inculcates the spirit of sacrifice among
Muslims similar to what Prophets Muhammad s.a.w and his companions used to do.
Are all the claims that Tabligh Jamat made are true .Is Tabligh Jamat truly a
dakwah movements. Is Tabligh Jamat similar to the work of Prophet Muhammad
s.a.w or is similar to other ‘tarikat’ movements. I have been involved with the
work of Tabligh Jamat more than thirty years. Since the Jemaah portrayed itself
as doing the work of dakwah, I become interested and decided to join the group
although at that time I was only a student. What surprised me Tabligh Jamat
does not give dakwah to non-Muslim? They argue with me saying that the present
day Muslims cannot do dakwah to non-Muslims because Muslims are not practicing
Islam. They said to me that we have to correct the Muslims first then only we
can give dakwah to the non-Muslims. At that time, I was young and immature so I
heard and I obeyed.
Whatever they said to me always remain in my mind. While
I was involving with the work of Tabligh Jamat, I was always thinking and
hoping that one day the work of dakwah to the non-Muslim will start. Although I
am always eager to do the work of dakwah to the non-Muslim, yet I do not know
how to do it. When I look at the Muslims involved with work of Tabligh
Jamat I have very slightest hope that the work of dakwah to the non-Muslims
will ever starts .I was worried and I always pray to Allah to teach me how to
do the work of dakwah to the non-Muslims as Prophets Muhammad s.a.w used to do.
With the blessing of Allah, my prayer was granted and to cut short the story,
the work of dakwah to the non-Muslims starts in my locality in early February
2008. Now when I do the work of visiting the peoples to call them to Allah I
will visit everyone including the non-Muslims. Now I will not miss any house as
I used to do. When I met Muslims I will remind them about the meaning of the
great words and about the orders of Allah, I will ask him to do the work of dakwah,
and to perform five times daily solat with congregation in the mosque. When I
met with non-Muslims, I will invite them to enter Islam and to recites the
great words. In case there are no opportunities to give dakwah with words then
I will make prayer and ask Allah to give guidance to them.
When the elders of Tabligh Jamat in India know that I am
also giving dakwah to non-Muslims and teaching others to do dakwah to
non-Muslim, they start to take action to stop me from spreading the teaching to
others. As I was one of the Syura of Malaysia, they withdraw my right to make
any decisions and they prevent me from making any lectures in any meetings of
Tabligh Jamat all over Malaysia. The decisions made by the elders of Tabligh
Jamat clearly indicates that Tabligh Jamat do not want to do dakwah to the
non-Muslims. Tabligh Jamat is only interested to invite the Muslims to join
their movements. Therefore, I conclude that Tabligh Jamat is not a
dakwah movement as they portrayed themselves to be but Tabligh Jamat is only
one of the many ‘tarikat’ groups. The reasons that they gave to me
thirty years ago for not doing the work of dakwah to non-Muslims was only an
excuse not to do the work of dakwah.
The Tabligh Jamat is using reasons created in their minds
and using logics not in accordance with Quran and Hadis so that the Muslims
should not do the work of dakwah to the non-Muslims. Some of the members of
Tabligh Jamat argued to me that avoiding the work of dakwah to non-Muslims is
the ‘hikmah’ of their elders. Allah knows hikmah and no one knows hikmah except
Allah and Allah teaches hikmah to the Prophets Muhammad s.a.w. When Muslims do
exactly like Prophets Muhammad s.a.w did then Muslims have hikmah and
when Muslims are not doing like the Prophet Muhammad s.a.w did then Muslims are
making fitnah. When Muslims do not do dakwah to the non-Muslims like Prophet
Muhammad s.a.w did then Muslims are making fitnah and the so call scholars that
stop the Muslims from doing the work of dakwah to the non-Muslims are actually
spreading fitnah.When the Muslims stop the work of dakwah to the non-Muslims
Allah is not pleased with the Muslims and Allah put the Muslims in so many
I conclude that Tabligh Jamat is not a dakwah movement as
they claimed themselves to be. Tabligh Jamat is only one of the many tarikat
groups and like all other tarikat group; they are usually very fond of admiring
their elders instead of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. When they give lectures, they
often quote the words of their elders instead of Quran and Hadis. When any Tabligh Jamat visit a Muslim, instead of asking the person to
obey the commandments of Allah, that is to do the work of dakwah and to perform
five times daily solat with congregation they are more interested to ask the
person to join their group by participating to what they call as going in the
path of Allah for three or forty days or four months. At the end of any
lectures that they make they will also ask the audience to join their groups by
participating in the so call going in the path of Allah for three or forty days
and four months. They are only interested in the number of persons
that can join their tarikat group and they are not interested in establishing
the orders of Allah. Although more than ninety years Tabligh Jamat
is in existence yet the first order of Allah that is to give dakwah to the
non-Muslims, to deliver the great words to them is still not established.
When Sheikh Muhammad Ilyas started the work, the work has
no name and at that time, it is commonly known as the work of calling peoples
towards kalimah and solat. At those times, it was a true work of dakwah and
Sheikh Muhammad Ilyas used to visit the people in their houses and their fields
to invite them to recite the kalimah or the great words and to ask them to
perform five times daily solat. After the demise of Sheikh
Muhammad Ilyas the work has been mutilated by his deciples who modified the
noble work to becomes a tarikat group by the names Tabligh Jamat. Their
elders instead of doing the work of visiting the peoples in their homes and
fields to invite them to recite the kalimah and to performs solat are only
interested to give long and exhausting lectures. Therefore, I
conclude that the present Tabligh Jamat is not the group that does the work of
dakwah or tabligh and neither it is the group that do the work of Prophet
Muhammad s.a.w, as the Tabligh Jamat claim to be. It is only one of the tarikat
group developed by the Muslims in India and instead of calling it by the name
of Tabligh Jamat, it should be better known as ‘IndiansTarikat Group’.
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
My Fellow Muslims,
We the “Moderate Muslims” should unanimously label those
Muslims who constantly attack moderate viewpoints as “Certified
Muslim Bashers.” There is
no need to use any harsh or any foul language. It will be even better if we all
can muster enough courage to post it on
the blog or websites so that our fellow Muslims are duly informed.
I say, let the Muslims be
aware of those whose sole aim is to keep disrupting the balanced viewpoints
of the “Moderate Muslims.” It is these educated Muslims with all of
their evil intentions do more harm to
the great religion of Islam, let alone the “Certified
Muslim Haters,” like
Robert Spencer and Pamella Geller. It is quite obvious that somewhere in their
own background, they have been trained to “Hate” any Muslim who promotes
moderate views. Of course, they have their own sweet little hidden agendas, and
that is the reason why they get involved in the discourse on the internet forum
with hidden identities.
There is after all, a truth
in the statement by Sadaf, “I wonder why such a
coward, even wanted to enter an argument where from eventually he would run
away appealing others also to do so?” Kindly read Naseer Ahmed’s viscous comments
about this humble Muslim.
“Your post on the "ultimate
truth" is the "ultimate shit" and shows you to be the
"ultimate scavenger". Can you not even choose a proper source? What
credibility does your source carry and if the charges are as serious as what
the blog makes them out to be, what corroboration do you find from credible
sources? Your source is an unknown and anonymous blogger whose other blog is
the usual Barelvi rant against the Wahabis. The choice of your source to pick
up a blog written in such poor taste and making such outlandish allegations is
a reflection on your own character, the depths to which you can descend, and
your proclivity for believing in any trash if it supports your prejudices. A
person such as you is not worth having a discussion with.”
a shame? The so-called “Tabligh Jamaat” devotee
cannot even reply to all the articles about his beloved Islamic organization which
I posted yesterday. After all, let the readers on this forum be fully aware of
who the “Ultimate Scavenger” was?
you, Sadaf for pitching in to clear the air. Thank you, Sultan Sahin Saheb to
reveal the true identity of the mischief maker, or should we all say a “Certified
again for reading, I remain – Very respectfully yours – email@example.com
To Editor: Sultan Shahin
– New Age Islam
wrote, “With your correct name, we can relate to your past comments.” That’s
exactly what I did Sultan Saheb. I searched on New Age Islam and I found out
all about Honorable Naseer Ahmed Saheb.
you will realize the dire importance of revealing the identity of those
commentators who are only focused on disrupting a meaning dialogue.
sincerely yours, firstname.lastname@example.org
was indeed a pleasure to read “Moderate’s” judicious verdict. “Observer” simply
ran away and was not able to answer any of my rebuttals. Muslims like him think
only and refuse to read anything that point out the flaws of the Islamic
organizations which they believe in. Your readers have now witnessed two people
Naseer Saheb now will stop posting and that leaves “Rational,” who I am afraid
is in a very confused state of mind. Strange as it may seem, both these
gentlemen simply cannot answer any of my rebuttals.
future, you should post those comments of folks who reveal their true identity.
This platform of yours is strictly to rekindle the true spirit of Islamic
message. I say, “Moderate
Muslims” voices should be given more
importance. I can appreciate person like “Hats Off”
a constructive criticism. Of course, it should be welcomed, but what I have
that even such person will always side with those who are hell-bent to portray
a wrong image of Islam. In other words, you have a tough task ahead of you, yet
you need to do your very best to maintain a proper balance during the debates.
up the good work, Sultan Saheb.
ardent admirer, Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia
All RespectedReaders on “New Age Islam” Forum
is the composition of these groups? Following the 2002 Gujarat riots, some of
the more radical elements in the Deoband-Tablighi Jamaat and Ahle Hadis
tanzeems in Gujarat vowed vengeance.
many as two dozen students, most of them, of course, Kashmiris who were
studying in Deobandi madrasas in south Gujarat, fled the madrasas for arms and
explosives training in Pakistan soon after the riots.
blasts are a result of big intelligence lapse on the part of the state police
since a large number of locals are believed to be involved.
of these were students of the Deobandi madrasa at Kantharia near Bharuch called
Darul Uloom Arabiyyah Islamiyyah. (These madrasas have now stopped enrolling
Kashmiri students following police pressure). It is possible that the blasts
were the work of these new recruits.
one of the most notorious commanders of HUJI and leader of its Auragabad
module, Javed Kashmiri, who is eluding Maharashtra Police, had his religious
education in a similar madrasa near Bharuch.
101-year-old Deobandi madrasa at Dabhel near Surat, which is the oldest
Deobandi madrasa in Gujarat, has also been accused of spreading radicalism. At
least two maulvis charged with terrorist acts have studied in Dabhel.
Gujarat, almost all those arrested in relation to terror acts following the
post-Godhra riots, including the infamous Akshardham attack and the lesser
known bus bomb blasts in 2002 in which 13 people were injured, were Deobandis.
Islamic group for terror ties
I know that law enforcement officials have been
looking closely at Tablighi Jamaat for several years, but very little has come
out about them. Here is an MSNBC story,
. Of course, the analysis is essentially ignorant, since a "peaceful
Islamic movement" that preaches a return to "fundamental Islamic
values" will not find itself remaining peaceful for long, given the deep
roots of the jihad ideology within Islam. Still, the article contains some important
The FBI and the Pentagon are keeping a close eye on an
Islamic missionary group with thousands of U.S. members. In a secret
intelligence document obtained by NBC News, terrorism analysts say members of
the evangelical movement are ideal recruits for terrorist organizations inside
the United States.
On Dec. 13, in Queens, New York, members of a
conservative Islamic missionary group known as Tablighi Jamaat brought sleeping
bags to their mosque to spend the night discussing religion.
Now, NBC News has obtained a secret government memo
which says U.S. anti-terror officials believe radical extremists have been
infiltrating this otherwise peaceful Islamic movement and are using Tablighi's
U.S. organization "as cover... to network with other extremists in the
"If al-Qaida needed a fresh set of bodies in
order to pull an operation, one of the places that they would go to for that
fresh set of bodies would be Tablighi Jamaat, whether it's in the United States
or not," says former FBI agent Steve Denny, who has investigated members
Tablighi preaches a return to fundamental Islamic
values and has major mosques in at least 10 states, with as many as 50,000 U.S.
Recent pilgrimages in Bangladesh and Pakistan
attracted millions. Experts say they were fertile ground for al-Qaida
The memo, written in April by the Defense Intelligence
Agency, claims some Tablighi members in the U.S. "have the capability to
conduct a terrorist attack in the U.S.," though there's no evidence of
The document also says seven Tablighi leaders in the
U.S. are under investigation and claims a Tablighi official at a major
Midwestern mosque "has associations with several al-Qaida supporters"
and may be recruiting "converts for nefarious purposes."
The imam in Queens says the FBI questioned him. He insists
that radicals who espouse violence aren't even allowed at his mosque.
"We stop them," says Imam Zia Hafez Paracha.
"We don't even let them come."...
Tablighi does not endorse terrorism, but investigators
allege some known militants have Tablighi ties:
So-called American Taliban John Walker Lindh was
radicalized at a Tablighi-affiliated mosque in California.
Iyman Faris, who plotted to destroy the Brooklyn
Bridge, posed as a Tablighi missionary to get into the U.S.
Mr. Rational Pseudo,
wrote, “I have many other reasons to have it.” Can you name all the reasons for
you to continue to carry on with “Mohammed” as
your good name? I bet your answers will further reveal what is in your mind?
far, I have learned quite a bit about your anger with the religion of Islam.
Knowing your background of being one of the “Tablighis,” I can understand the way you
bottom line is tha you got a bad training which has totally jumbled up your
mind. I know of many young Memon men who are simply lost in the wilderness and
cannot cope up with their lives. That is exactly what happens when one follows
sects and ignores the commandments of Holy Quran.
Mr. Observer wrote:
A Tabligh also has a religious identity besides national and language and all
other identities. They wear their national dress, speak their own language and
the religious identity come from beard and head covering.
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s response:
Creating any sort of identity with strict dress codes, beards, hijabs and
following another book instead of Holy Quran should classify that particular religious
organization to belong to what we call in the civilized world, as a “Cult.”
Mr. Observer wrote:
Creating a distinctive identity in the commercial world is about creating a brand
on which firms spend enormous amounts. Cadburys is a brand that has become
synonymous with chocolates, Apple with electronics, etc, etc.
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s response:
Bonvita and iPhone are branded products sold to all humankind. It does not have
a religious tag, period.
Mr. Observer wrote: Identity, branding
etc play a very important, useful and positive role. I have not seen anyone decry
identity and separateness so much as the educated and modern Muslims who are so
embarrassed by their Muslim identity, that they would like to lose it
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s response:
Muslims are not embarrassed by Muslims’ identities. They are most definitely
embarrassed by their repulsive character, especially, of those who dress like
Holy Men and does his “Tablighi” works without caring for their sick parents or
their pregnant wives.
Mr. Observer wrote: The positive approach would be to
improve the branding and image of our religion rather than lose our identity from
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia’s
response: Improving the image of Islam means to get out of the “Ghetto
Thinking.” In other words, the mindset which applauds and endorses all the
immoral acts and encourages criminal worshipping must be permanently shunned. “Tabligh
Jamaat” is now under the radar of the U.S. Government agencies. Only because of
Muslims like Mr. Observer, the future generation of Muslim youths are going to confront
an uphill battle in their lives. Mr. Observer is merely speeding up the process
by not taking into account the ground reality.
Observer, you wrote as follows:
“The genuine moderates on this site
may please note that this is not a site of the moderate Muslim but of the
Barelvis who have proven that they are anything but moderate.”
up. Kindly let Sultan Shahin Saheb do his work. All you and Rational Pseudo are
doing is continue to throw “Monkey Wrench” to disrupt the debate.
Pseuda got problems with Islam even though he loves to continue to carry on
with his name “Mohammed” which he claims has been given by his beloved Nani.
You on the other hand, are relentless is trying to push your point of view and
continue to keep on defending the deeds of “Tabligh Jamaat.”
Shahin is trying hard to gather enough like-minded “Moderate Muslims” on this platform, but it seems like few on this
forum are hell-bent on making it hard to have any
of intelligent debates and/or rebuttals.
the way, are you literally trying to convert everyone into “Tablighis.” What is
Observer? You know that will not happen, or should I say, do not even try. You
know why? I belong to Memon community who are mostly orthodox. I have seen how “Tablighis”
simply walk away on his so-called
missionary work leaving behind sick parents, pregnant wives and what not? That
also for more than four months with no news at all. If you want to promote such
a behavior and see wisdom in this very act, then please go about and around and
preach to other Muslims.
are not going to be part of this uncivilized type of human behavior. Are you reading
this comment, Mr. Observer? I have had first-hand experience and I know the metal
trauma which the family members have to suffer. Hence, spare me your lecture as
I have no patience at all for all the pep talks about your beloved “Tabligh Jamaat.”
it is highly likely that you might find this message rude, so be it, Mr. Observer.
You should learn to respect others’ viewpoint. As far as I am concerned, I have
always stayed ten foot away from the “Tablighis.” I just do not want any bearded
Maulvis with kurta and pyjama to come and teach me about Islam. Holy Quran is
enough for me. I could care less about any sects.
the way, did you notice that I have not addressed you with “As-Salaam Alay-Kum.”
issues with that too. Small wonder that you fiercely promote “Tabligh Jamaat.” What
one expect from a bunch of uneducated brutes?
Recruiters for Jihad-Meet the Tablighi Jamaat--right here in the
INDICTMENTS of American Taliban John Walker Lindh and "shoebomber"
Richard Reid will have broader consequences than many Americans imagine. As important
as these cases are for the investigation of al Qaeda and related terrorist
activities in Afghanistan, they should also make it possible to trace,
identify, and shut down Islamic extremist recruiting networks with which both
men had contact in the United States and Britain. These groups continue to
operate with impunity in non-Muslim countries as well as in the Islamic world.
to Lindh's own disclosures, he was trained by the Pakistani-based Harakat
ul-Mujahidin (HUM), or Movement of Jihad Fighters. HUM has been identified as a
terrorist organization by the State Department. Its main target area has been
Kashmir. But the trail does not stop there. How did Lindh find his way to HUM?
intermediary that introduced Lindh to HUM is a secretive international Islamic
group that both Lindh and Reid joined, known as Tablighi Jamaat (TIJ), or Call
to the Community. Lindh attended a small mosque in San Francisco run by TIJ.
Jamaat presents itself as nothing more than a prayer and study circle. Media
accounts of Lindh's involvement with TIJ have quoted a University of California
specialist, Barbara Metcalf, who recycles the movement's claim that its
obsessive rhetoric about jihad refers only to "the jihad of personal
improvement." Though it gets less mention, Metcalf herself has
acknowledged in print having heard that the group is also committed to military
investigators do not seem to have taken much interest in TIJ's activities,
perhaps fearful that agents will be seen as persecuting a religious group. An
FBI representative in San Francisco comments vaguely, "It doesn't appear
at all that [Lindh] was recruited here, that there were any cells or groups
that told him to go over there and fight."
a remark betrays a misunderstanding of recruiting practices in the Islamic
milieu. Joining the extremist worldwide jihad of the violent Muslim sect known
as Wahhabism is not a matter of filling out a form. One does not have to go to
a recruiting office to sign up. Mosques in Western countries (most of them
funded by the Saudi government) are permeated with Wahhabist jihad rhetoric,
encountered the minute one walks in the door. Some imams preach jihad; some
tolerate it sympathetically; some oppose it privately but are intimidated into
permitting it. But it is everywhere. If the imam does not advocate jihad,
activists hang out on the premises, or on the sidewalks and in the parking lots
nearby, spreading the word.
Muslims in the mosques of Western countries generally fall into two categories:
children of immigrants uncertain about their identity, and new Muslims, or
converts. To both, the Wahhabi message is simple and, for many, dazzling: You
want to be one of the best Muslims; you must defend the victims of the wars on
Islam in Bosnia, Chechnya, Israel, Kashmir, and more obscure places that have
yet to make it into the media, like Burma. The way to jihad begins by joining a
circle of likeminded people.
Jamaat is such a movement. TIJ was founded in India in the 1920s, at a time of
aggravated conflict between Muslims and Hindus, which has always been a pretext
for the spread of Wahhabism in the subcontinent. In the past TIJ rejected the
Wahhabi label while also claiming to stay out of politics. But in recent years
it has undergone a transformation. It infiltrated the Pakistani government, and
was left off President Musharraf's recent list of banned extremist
organizations. However, Indian sources claim that it was a major supplier of
recruits for the terrorist groups Musharraf has suppressed--groups that also
supported Harakat ul-Mujahidin, which trained Lindh and sent him to Kashmir.
American Muslim sources say TIJ indoctrinated its followers to fight for the
Taliban and al Qaeda as well.
the fate of John Walker Lindh and Richard Reid, it is not enough to say that
the war on terrorism will be a long one, fought on battlefields around the
world. There is also an internal battlefield in the United States that has
remained out of the limelight. That battlefield consists of groups like TIJ
that the U.S. authorities seem to have overlooked, even after September 11, out
of fear they would seem to be meddling in the protected area of purely
religious endeavors. TIJ cells are recruiting on our soil as you read these
Stephen Schwartz is
completing a book, "Two Faces of Islam."
My response to Mr. Observer
is as follows:
Observer: You may expect me to ignore your posts
that make little sense because if I did respond, I may end up showing you to be
a dimwit. Since you asked for it, I am responding.
O.K. I am a dimwit. So what are you,
Observer: Your post regarding the circle of hate
is about someone who was associated with the Jamat and found it too lukewarm
for his liking, left it, formed another Organization and carried on whatever he
wished to do which he could not as part of Tablighi Jamat. So what are you
trying to prove Mr Lodha? I see no relevance or a reflection on the Jamat.
You wrote, “someone who was associated
with the Jamat.” That was his first testing ground.
Observer: Your post on the "ultimate
truth" is the "ultimate shit" and shows you to be the
"ultimate scavenger". Can you not even choose a proper source? What
credibility does your source carry and if the charges are as serious as what
the blog makes them out to be, what corroboration do you find from credible
sources? Your source is an unknown and anonymous blogger whose other blog is
the usual Barelvi rant against the Wahabis. The choice of your source to pick
up a blog written in such poor taste and making such outlandish allegations is
a reflection on your own character, the depths to which you can descend, and
your proclivity for believing in any trash if it supports your prejudices. A
person such as you is not worth having a discussion with.
You made your point Mr. Observer. Now if
you have enough guts to read the conclusion of an article posted on Middle East
Quarterly by Alex Alexiev as follows:
15,000 Tablighi missionaries reportedly active in the United States present a
serious national security problem. At best, they and their proxy groups
form a powerful proselytizing movement that preaches extremism and disdain for
religious tolerance, democracy, and separation of church and state. At worst,
they represent an Islamist fifth column that aids and abets terrorism. Contrary
to their benign treatment by scholars and academics, Tablighi Jamaat has more
to do with political sedition than with religion.
should focus on reality rather than rhetoric. Pakistani and Saudi support for
Tablighi Jamaat is incompatible with their claims to be key allies in the war
on terror. While law enforcement focuses attention on Osama bin Laden, the war
on terrorism cannot be won unless al-Qaeda terrorists are understood to be the
products of Islamist ideology preached by groups like Tablighi Jamaat. If the
West chooses to turn a blind eye to the problem, Tablighi involvement in future
terrorist activities at home and abroad is not a matter of conjecture; it is a
Alex Alexiev is vice president for research
at the Center for Security Policy in Washington, D.C.
Observer: One gains wisdom learning from proven
success such as the Tablighi Jamat and looking for reasons why it make good
sense for the Jamat to be the way it is.……. Ghamdi and Sardar in their wisdom
see weakness whereas I see strength.
You are nothing but a devout Tabligh
Jamaat follower. It is as simple as that, Mr. Observer.
Observer: The fact that the
Jamat has grown to 10 million (one account in Wikipedia says 100 million) and
is spread across 200 countries and yet retained its apolitical non takfiri
character through the turbulent times that we have gone through, is proof of
its tremendous strength and resilience. The Saudis with their petro dollars
have not been able to corrupt it.
No kidding! Are you sure about that? I
think you got a lot of reading to catch you.
One cannot continue to live in the
twilight zone, Mr. Observer. Wake up, you are
far behind in understanding what has
taken place within Tabligh Jamat.
Observer: Please do not use
'Respected' and pleasantries when your post is rude. It only shows that you are
That’s your opinion, Mr. Observer. You
are biased and that is why you have such a difficult time confronting the “Truth.” Never mind,
how bad is Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia. You really ought to accept the facts and not try
to run away from facing it.
Is This Not Promoting Sectarianism In Islam?
the Barelvis or for that matter any community arms and then see what they
do with it. It is then that their ideology becomes relevant in choosing
victims. However, with or without ideology, there will be victims with armed
Shahin Sb, you can keep on cursing the
Wahabis/Salafis/Deobandis but that is not an answer to my question of how many
have you been able to bring to a common non-sectarian platform. As a matter of
fact there aren't many Barelvis that you have been able to attract either. Nor,
as far as I know, have you made a conscious effort.
If even the Tablighis are shooed away because they sport a
beard and their women wear a Niqab, and if the fact that they are otherwise
peace loving with a very long record of remaining out of every
controversy is irrelevant to you, then you are extremely exclusivist and
prejudiced. Your target audience is clearly not Muslims but whoever your
masters are. For those in the US, they may be trying to impress their neighbours
and those in India their Indian friends. It is more of a projection of self and
what you would like others to think of you rather than an attempt to bring
By Naseer Ahmed –
4/16/2013 12:11:04 AM
Jamaat: Jihad's Stealthy Legions
By Alex Alexiev -
Middle East Quarterly
Winter 2005, pp. 3-11
fall, over a million almost identically dressed, bearded Muslim men from around
the world descend on the small Pakistani town of Raiwind for a three-day
celebration of faith. Similar gatherings take place annually outside of Dhaka,
Bangladesh, and Bhopal, India. These pilgrims are no ordinary Muslims, though;
they belong to a movement called Tablighi Jamaat ("Proselytizing
Group"). They are trained missionaries who have dedicated much of their
lives to spreading Islam across the globe. The largest group of religious
proselytizers of any faith, they are part of the reason for the explosive growth
of Islamic religious fervor and conversion.
its size, worldwide presence, and tremendous importance, Tablighi Jamaat
remains largely unknown outside the Muslim community, even to many scholars of
Islam. This is no coincidence. Tablighi Jamaat officials work to remain outside
of both media and governmental notice. Tablighi Jamaat neither has formal
organizational structure nor does it publish details about the scope of its
activities, its membership, or its finances. By eschewing open discussion of
politics and portraying itself only as a pietistic movement, Tablighi Jamaat
works to project a non-threatening image. Because of the movement's secrecy,
scholars often have no choice but to rely on explanations from Tablighi Jamaat
a result, academics tend to describe the group as an apolitical devotional
movement stressing individual faith, introspection, and spiritual development.
The austere and egalitarian lifestyle of Tablighi missionaries and their
principled stands against social ills leads many outside observers to assume
that the group has a positive influence on society. Graham Fuller, a former CIA
official and expert on Islam, for example, characterized Tablighi Jamaat as a
"peaceful and apolitical preaching-to-the-people movement."
Barbara Metcalf, a University of California scholar of South Asian Islam,
called Tablighi Jamaat "an apolitical, quietist movement of internal grassroots
missionary renewal" and compares its activities to the efforts to reshape
individual lives by Alcoholics Anonymous.
Olivier Roy, a prominent authority on Islam at Paris's prestigious Centre
National de la Recherche Scientifique, described Tablighi Jamaat as
"completely apolitical and law abiding."
Governments normally intolerant of independent movements often make an
exception for Tablighi Jamaat. The Bangladeshi prime minister and top political
leadership, many of whom are Islamists, regularly attend their rallies, and
Pakistani military officers, many of whom are sympathetic to militant Islam,
even allow Tablighi missionaries to preach in the barracks.
the Pakistani experience strips the patina from Tablighi Jamaat's façade.
Pakistani prime minister Nawaz Sharif (1990-93; 1997-99), whose father was a
prominent Tablighi member and financier, helped Tablighi members take prominent
For example, in 1998, Muhammad Rafique Tarar took the ceremonial presidency
while, in 1990, Javed Nasir assumed the powerful director-generalship of the
Inter-Services Intelligence, Pakistan's chief intelligence agency. When Benazir
Bhutto, less sympathetic to Islamist causes, returned to the premiership in
1993, Tablighis conspired to overthrow her government. In 1995, the Pakistani
army thwarted a coup attempt by several dozen high-ranking military officers
and civilians, all of whom were members of the Tablighi Jamaat and some of whom
also held membership in Harakat ul-Mujahideen, a U.S. State Department-defined
Some of the confusion over Tablighi Jamaat's apolitical characterization
derives from the fact that the movement does not consider individual states to
be legitimate. They may not become actively involved in internal politics or
disputes over local issues, but, from a philosophical and transnational
perspective, the Tablighi Jamaat's millenarian philosophy is very political
indeed. According to the French Tablighi expert Marc Gaborieau, its ultimate
objective is nothing short of a "planned conquest of the world" in
the spirit of jihad.
The charge of the Barelvi is that the Tablighi Jamat integrates too well with the "Kuffar" and is therefore welcome in every country. Can the Barebi ever be consistent? Liars and slanderers can never be. Taqwa is beyond them
Sufi/Barelvi website Noore Madinah
The movement of Tableeghi Jamaat is being utilised by the enemies of Islam as an effective instrument in their struggle to prevent the emergence of a true Islamic movement in Europe and elsewhere in the world. Therefore, it is incumbent on all Muslims to disown it and discourage its activity in every way. The British were continually looking for ways of infiltrating and subverting Islam. They kept, through their comprehensive spy network, a very careful eye, on any new Muslim group and movement. The Tableeghi Jamaat was set up under the British Rule in India. After closely watching the Jamaat for some time, the British realised that here was exactly what they were looking for, a movement that totally absorbed the energy of its members and yet did not threaten British domination in any way as the doctrine of Jihad was totally absent in this movement. They saw that instead of the Jamaat's directing their energies outwardly towards their legitimate (sic) Kaafir enemies, was now directed inwardly towards the rest of the Muslims. Therefore, it was a group that was allowed to flourish.
…If one looks deeply, this five point action plan meets the complete approval of the enemies of Islam, since there is no mention anywhere of anything which might even slightly inconvenience a Kaafir government. This is the reason why the Tableeghi Jamaat moves freely in Kufaar countries in Europe and the rest of the world, while other Muslims are being imprisoned, tortured, and killed on a daily basis.
To All Respected Readers on “New Age Islam” Forum
we go again, folks! Rational Pseudo strikes again. In another article, he wrote,
“The fact remains, the Quran is a miracle in the
sense, majority of its reader don't understand it. some true followers are
peaceful, some others are terrorists.”
“Terrorists call it miracle. Sufis call it miracle.
traditionalist call it miracle. moderates call it miracle. who understand not a
single word call it a miracle.”
The truth of the matter is the man is absolutely relentless. He has
no problem using the name “Mohammed,” but he thrives on devaluing everything that Islam stands for.
This is truly a miracle as the man’s mental ability cannot see anything worthwhile
about Islam, even after being born in a respected Muslim family.
Watch out folks! That is what joining “Tabligh Jamaat” will do to anyone’s head. It is quite apparent that these “Jamaatis” just went about preaching
false messages of Islam by misguiding their devout followers. One only has to
listen to Javed Ahmed Ghamidi in order to grasp his own cautionary words to the
followers of “Tablighis”:
Ya Fazaail Ki Kitaabon,
Aur Bikul Jhooth Riwayaton, Aur Kissa aur Kahniyaan
En Ko Ek Taraf Rakh Do ………
Aur Allah Ki Kitaab Haat Ma Pakaro
Thanks again for reading, I remain,
Very respectfully yours, email@example.com
appreciate your candor and your insight. Keep on pouring your thoughts as all
of your rebuttals are worth reading.
as always. Your friend – firstname.lastname@example.org
you have any “Self-Respect?” If you are so proud to let your friends and
colleagues call you by the name “Mohammed Younus,” then at least be respectful of
your good name which was given by your beloved grandmother.
can call me imbecile or by any other name you desire, but you simply cannot change
your own name, that is, “Mohammed.” If you continue to hang on to this
particular name, then why do you keep ranting and raving about how bad is Islam
and our Prophet of Islam?
talk about Butcher Idi. He was given refuge in the Holy Land of Saudi Arabia. He
there as a peaceful resident. Muslim leaders loves to forgive sins of the
evildoers. That is what they do best? What else is new?
more thing, imbecile is a person whose mental acumen is well below par.
Why not raise yours, and in turn, I will try my best to raise mine too. Happy
now, Mr. Rational Pseudo. Kindly have mercy on the “Moderate Muslims.” This
is just a small request of this humble Musalmaan.
sure whether you are observing or reading, however, I noticed that you conveniently
ignored “A Circle of Hate” and “The convent school boy who turned terror
commander.” That’s right. I reckon you simply do not know how to confront the “Truth” about what ails the Islamic world? Why would you
care? You want to keep on justifying and covering up the sins of some Islamic
organizations which has taken a totally wrong path.
importantly, I was glad to realize that you took your precious time to view and
listen to the YouTube link of Javed
Ahmed Ghamidi. Though, what truly baffled me was your first paragraph wherein
you basically contradicted your own statement. First, you fully agreed
Ghamidi’s viewpoint, and then you took a 180 degree turn and termed it as
disastrous if Tabligh Jamaat followed his advice. What made you do that?
Observer, I am sorry to say that you are simply confused. Granted that, a
village primary school cannot follow Harvard, Yale or Cambrdige, but the died-hard
Jamaat can take a simple advice from Ghamidi as follows:
Quran Ka Zariya Sa
Nasiyat Ki Jiyaa ….
Allah Ki Kitaab Haath Ma
Usi Ka Parna Ka Logon
Main Shauk Paida Karain
the hidden personalities coupled with hidden mindsets, it is hard to pinpoint
what your very own belief is? You remain critical of Sultan Shahin Saheb, but do
you realized your own weaknesses in making the rebuttals? I do not know who you
are, but after continuing to
your comments, I get a feeler that you are a devout “Tabligh Jamaat” advocate. You salute
to their wisdom without making a sincere attempt to advise them to follow our
Quran. Think about it, Mr. Observer.
respectfully yours, - email@example.com
Rational, - Let science try to find the truth. Let religion try to define what is good and what is right. Let us in this forum discuss peace, righteousness, justice, kindness, gender equality etc. Instead of a literal reading of everything that is in the Quran, let the Quran be an inspiration for us to move in the direction of what is good and what is right.
Look Mr. Pseudo. Why are you using “Mohammed”
in your name? Now that is a million dollar question which I doubt that you will
ever be able to answer. If you hate Islam so much then change your good name, Mr.
I remain totally speechless after
reading your response. You asked, “Why your God Allah makes evils
appear good to people?” Why are you blaming God Allah? He has given you a life
and a brain to think. You lost yours while circling around Tablighis, period.
Now, you ought to start recharging your brain cells so that you can wise up and
perform good deeds with positive thinking. You have too much resentment in your
heart. Purify it, please!
Oh yes, “My first name is
Mohammed.” I know my name and I
respect the fact that it was given to me by my beloved parents. (May Almighty
Allah rest their souls in peace).
Tablighi Jamaat” by Javed Ahmed Ghamidi
Dear Qureshi Saheb,
First of all, you misspelled the word “Sense.”
It is not “séance.” Terrorist is not “tererist.”
Secondly, what is in a name? A lot. It
defines who the person is and it reveals his personal
character without hiding. Why would any
sane Muslim hide his/her identity? Surely, you will agree with me that only
those who are involved in illegal and secretive activities will try to hide
their names. Isn’t that what one can possibly call a “Common
Thirdly, what Alim are you talking
about? What made you come to that conclusion?
Finally, you are right. We must all use
common sense. That can only happen if we try hard
to debate with our own given name and
not use some fictitious name that floats around the cyber space. Hope whatever
I am writing make “Sense” to you, Qureshi Saheb. Well, I hope this is your
Have a blessed day. Heads Up &
Sincerely yours, - firstname.lastname@example.org
Mohammed Rafiq Lodhia,
what is in name ?
this world have 20 million mohammed by name.
some are criminal ,some are tererist,some are human being, some sub-human,some
are animal like.
just use more common seance ten sentiment seance
jakil & hide ??? use common seance , wisdom then common
even two decade ago in your time more people using common seance . simple
going after alim u also lost your self.
don't worrying about ALLAH he is almighty &
just use common sence
By mohammad qureshi - 11/22/2013 11:32:20 PM
Good Morning Rational,
Slowly but surely, the readers of New Age
Islam are learning more about your past. Little wonder that you left “Tabligh
Jamaat.” I bet by the time you left them, you were totally brainwashed.
I am sorry to be blunt, but that is what happens when a human goes from one
extreme to another.
Do you recall writing to me couple of
days ago about my obsession towards the identity of the commentators? You
belong to a “Cult,” therefore, you practice the art of secrecy. Today,
after getting all frustrated by being misled, you are now hell-bent on blaming
everything on Muslims and their great religion of Islam.
Well the good news is that you are
assisting a person who is running a motivational course for students. I will strongly
recommend you to take an active part in “Positive Thinking” in your life. It is quite apparent that your past
association with Tablighis was not a pleasant experience after all.
By the way, a man possessing the
so-called “Devilish Intentions” will not be engaged in giving a sound
advice, or will he? Perhaps, you will start to change your very attitude and
stop lashing out at “Moderate Muslims” who follow their religion
May the “One Up
In Heaven” bless you. Whoever you now believe in,
Mr. Rational? If you don’t, then still blessings are with you from those who
wish you well. Need I say more? Be well and keep positive spirit for
change. Enough of the negativity, please!
Respectfully yours, - email@example.com
convent school boy who turned terror commander
To All Respected Readers on
“New Age Islam” Forum
“A Circle of Hate”
By Praveen Swami
Maulana Sufiyan Patangia used to run the Waliullah
seminary next to the Lal Masjid - officially called the Hafizi Masjid- in
Kalupur in the old city area of Ahmedabad. Now, he is Gujarat's most wanted
criminal. Believed to be the head of the massive terrorist cell unearthed
during the course of the investigation into Pandya's assassination, Indian
intelligence operatives last sighted the cleric in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, in
For years, Patangia was just another small-time
preacher for the Tablighi Jamaat,
perhaps the largest Islamic movement in the world. His seminary taught only the
Koran, some basic Urdu, and the six principles of Islam as understood by the
Tablighi Jamaat's founder, Mohammad Ilyas: kalima, or profession of the
faith; the rules and details of the obligatory namazprayer and other
rituals; ilm-o-zikr, knowledge of religious principles;ikram-i-Muslim,
respect for others of the religious community; tahsih-i-niyyat,
purification of one's inherent nature; and tafrigh-i-waqt, volunteering
time for the Tablighi Jamaat's core missionary work. Students and the faithful
who attended prayers at the Lal Masjid were exhorted to give up frivolities
such as television or cinema, and received advice on everything from the
clothes they ought to wear, the manner of their beards, and the correct methods
of ablution and urination. Like other Tablighi Jamaat clerics, Patangia shunned
politics and condemned concern with worldly issues.
Patangia's seminary thrived, funded generously by
Saudi Arabia-based charities the cleric contacted on his biennial Haj and Umrah
pilgrimages to Mecca. In the late 1990s, Saudi Arabia was a place of enormous
ideological ferment that centred around the presence of troops of the United
States there after the first Gulf war. It is possible the contacts Patangia
made with Pakistani and West Asian Islamists during his visits began to change
his views on the Tablighi Jamaat's quietist approach. After the January 26,
2001, Gujarat earthquake, the cleric for the first time raised funds and
mobilised cadre, at a mass level, for relief work in Bhuj. Although clerics in
the Lal Masjid insist their work was intended to benefit all victims,
irrespective of creed, most journalistic accounts of what went on in Bhuj after
the earthquake suggest that religious organisations mainly helped their
Al Qaeda's bombing of the twin towers in New York on
September 11 brought about seismic changes in the Lal Masjid and its seminary.
Patangia declared that Islam was in danger and that it was obligatory on all
Muslims to resist the U.S.' war on the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. Drawing
on a core group from among his earthquake-relief volunteers, Patangia formed an
Islamist study cell called the Idara-e-Fadlullah-ul-Muslimeen (Institution of
Charity for Muslims). The group monitored the events in Afghanistan, relying
mainly on the Internet since its members were forbidden to use the supposedly
anti-Islamic medium of television. Tapes of Jaish-e-Mohammad chief Masood
Azhar's speeches on the Afghanistan jehadwere also circulated. Patangia,
an informed source told Frontline, used to be jokingly called `Mullah
Omar', after the Taliban leader. His second-in-command, Suhail Khan, adopted
the Osama bin Laden-style headgear, acquiring the nickname ‘Chhota Osama’
(Little Osama) in the process.
In February 2002, when violence broke out in Gujarat,
Patangia was in Saudi Arabia on his regular pilgrimage. He used the
opportunity, the CBI and the Gujarat Police say, to seek support from the
Pakistan-based Islamist Right. Abdul Bari, a one-time Hyderabad resident who
has for several years been a key Lashkar-e-Toiba leader tasked with carrying
out terrorist operations in India outside of Jammu and Kashmir, put up Rs.3.75
lakhs to fund Patangia's efforts. Incidentally, the Andhra Pradesh Police
believes that Bari's front organisation, the Muslim Defence Force, was behind
the attempt to assassinate the religious leader Sathya Sai Baba. The cash,
investigators allege, was also used to purchase grenades and crude guns for an
abortive attack on a Rath Yatra in July 2002. Bari, ideologically affiliated to
the Ahl-e-Hadis sect, soon fell apart with Patangia because of theological
to read the entire article by clicking on the following link:
Thanks again for
reading, I remain
You say, "in fact i don't know what is truth". If so how do you know, "i think Sufism is a deviation". - If you do not know the truth, how do you know something is a deviation? -
You also said, "if Jamat is a slow poison, religion is opium". - But you never say what you think of attempts to bring moderation and rationality into religion. Is your bitterness so great that you are incapable of making a single positive comment?
True Islamic View & News
October 6, 2013
This BlogLinked From
HereThe Web Tablighi Jamat /The Religous Mafia
Tablighi Jamaat started in India in 1926. And rapidly
spread in many countries of the world , its followers are in
found Pakistan, India and Bangladesh thousands in number. Tablighi Jamaat is
mainly adhere to the Deobandi beliefs infect it preaches the Deobandi beliefs
instead of Islam. In Pakistan, it has strong network and its headquarter is
located in Raiwind near Lahore. This group has also strong relations with
Talibanization and it supports morally, religiously, economically and
also strong support with manpower to Taliban in Pakistan and other
With having simple
apparent and innocent-looking, these people are directly or in directly
involve in drug dealing, supply of weapons and terrorism in Pakistan. In
the annual gathering in Raiwind, hashish, opium and many other drugs are
brought from KPK and are supplied to other areas. Religiously this group is
against Ehl-e-Sunnat and Pakistani philosophy it has deep roots in every field
of Government of Pakistan. Tablighi jamaat is working like termites and that's
why some people say that it is slow poison.
Kindly read the contents from the blog “ultimatetruth4u”
and share your thoughts.
Thanking you in anticipation, I remain
Very respectfully yours – firstname.lastname@example.org
Suhail says, "Because, to the best of my knowledge, All that you, Muhammad Unus Saheb, and other moderate muslims are presneting on this forum as the real Islam is untruth or half truth." - Your interest seems to be solely in selected Hadiths which you can use to smear Islam with. Doing this in a forum that promotes moderate Islam suggests that moderate and rational trends somehow threaten you.
Mr. Suhail says, "I am a truth seeker". - His posts indicate that all that he is seeking is different ways to disparage Islam.
That makes perfect
sense Observer Saheb and I am not accusing Tablighis of preaching violent
Takfirism. Their imam’s connection with Hanbali fiqh is well known. Both
Ibn-e-Taimiya and Abdul Wahhab, however, were quite eclectic in this matter. As
Imam Hanbal himself was not too keen on his followers becoming total muqallids,
so emulation has been looked down upon in this tradition. The idea is to do
Ijtihad and for this to go to Quran and Hadees, more Hadees than Quran, which
they say is beyond an ordinary mortal to decipher. So you find that Quran is
not taught in any of our madrasas. Students who have spent up to 13 years in a
madrasa, practically any madrasa, do not know a word of Quran. Of course, they
can read and some are hafizs as well. But that is not knowing Quran. Except in
the last (Arabic hashtum) year of study in Deoband, reports academic and author
Saral Jhingran, Quran is not taught anywhere and at any level with meaning.
This she finds most surprising for Ahl-e-Hadees madrasas, as by and large, in
her view their course is better and more scientificaaly designed. As
Ahl-e-Hadeesis are a full-fledged, and most rigid and extremist Wahhabi sect,
they do not teach fiqh at all. Deobandis do, but ahl-e-hadeesis make fun of
them and call them pink Wahhabis. However, as they do not teach fiqh and say
that we should go back to Quran and Hadees rather than to man made laws by
these imams, one would have thought, as Jhingran also does, that they would be
focused on teaching Quran and Hadees. But they are not. They do teach some
Hadees, but their focus is entirely on books by Ibn-e-Taimiya and Abdul Wahhab.
No wonder they are ahead of all in creating discord.
So it’s in the fitness
of things that Tablighis do not engage in debates about fiqh. That’s against Wahhabi
The amazing thing Observer (Naseer) Saheb is while you
go to such great lengths looking for newer and newer ways of creating
distractions, why can’t you focus on the fact that Tablighis are weaning
Muslims away from their local cultures as well as the global mainstream,
turning them into bizarre medieval Arabs. What has a medieval Arab attire got
to do with Islam? What is the link? Does God tell us that we can be good
Muslims only if we wear Arab dress, eat Arab food, speak their language, and so
on? Does God tell us to stay away from our neighbours of other religions and
sects? Should we live in exclusive ghettos and not in mixed localities? Should
we shun our friendships with local Hindu, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists? Is this
in the definition of Taqwa I quoted to you from Quran. Is Quran important or
Tablighi Bible, the Fazail-e-Amaal.