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Islamic Ideology (07 Jul 2015 NewAgeIslam.Com)




TOTAL COMMENTS:-   37


  • Rational,

    If I show logical consistency, and am able to make good sense of all verses without any contradictions, and do not treat any verse as abrogated, then that is proof that I am right.

    And if someone else gives a different meaning to the verses, and I can show the contradictions that this results in, then it is clear that the other meaning is incorrect.

    It is as simple as that.

    By Naseer Ahmed - 7/11/2015 8:27:06 AM



  • "Very clearly 8:12 covers only those in battle with the Muslims. Who were they? They were those who persecuted the Muslims forcing them to migrate to Medina, driven them out of the Sacred Mosque, hindered them in various way in practicing their religion and were now fighting battles to annihilate them. They were oppressors and religious persecutors and that is what is all that is relevant in the verse and not their faith."

    No war is possible without cause. Meccans were ready to accommodate one more messenger provided he doesn't mock their religion, forefathers, their ways of worship. they visited abu talib so that the prophet can stop mocking.
    a time came when the prophet acknowledged their goddess. Meccans became happy but the prophet said that it was intrusion of shaitan.
    they were happy till the prophet believed "lakum deenukum waliya deen".
    this new religion as usual was a threat to old religion. they stood to protect their old religion and their interests  associated with religion.
    the prophet became more vocal and the opposition grew stronger.
    battles were fought. finally Muslims won. now everything was at disposal of the prophet.
    is it a crime to fight for one's religion?
    do you know any winner who says that defeated was not wrong?
    very defeater threw the responsibility on  head of defeated.
    if Muslims were fighting for their religions, meccans were fighting for their religion. they felt their religion will die and their position will be ruined. they fought as they should have.
    don't you see America threw responsibility on Iraq.
    don't you see India and Pakistan keep blaming each other?
    don't you see Israel blame philistine?
    don't you see Arabs accuse Israel and USA for their failures.

    wars are fought through propaganda. no party accept the responsibility. 
    we don't know the real history. Muslims are complaining that history is being distorted. but are Muslims free from distortion?

    Muslims believe that it was all predestined.
    when you say that ahl e kitab were waiting for a messenger but refused to accept him when he arrived. what is this if not predestination?
    what is prophecy then?
    forecasting based on some available data is different then a prophecy made by the prophet.
    it is firm belief of majority of Muslims that the quran is in loh e mehfooz. so abu lahab was bound to oppose the prophet. he was bound to hell.
    to resolve this problem, Mutazillas refuted the predestination.
     
    there must be something that stops scholars from accepting your thesis. it is  not
    just their traditional beliefs.

    why do you believe in the history if it is corrupt? we don't have the story from the defeated. whatever we have is written by corrupt Muslim historians. if they could attibute false to the prophet why they couldn't invent some stories to make the Islam bright?
     
     

    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/11/2015 8:12:04 AM



  • Naseer saheb
    you have made me aware of my lack of comprehension numerous times, i am unable to sip from your fount of wisdom.
    however i am here with all my ears.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/11/2015 7:33:44 AM



  • Naseer saheb
    accepting corruption in the meaning of the Quran is not harmful to Islam but accepting corruption in the text is devastating to Islam. that is why Muslims accept the corruption in meaning but not in the text.
    Since you discard any other source calling it unauthentic, we can't discuss the corruption in the text.
    but there is a full possibility.

    let us leave it aside.
    where is the correct understanding of the Quran? Naturally you will say it is only with you?
    for the same reason, mr mohammed yunus is doing corruption, why you can't.
    Since i am not a scholar of any language and lack in professionalism in debates, i am unable to put my thoughts in right format.
     
    you take advantage of this and say i am running away. i didn't run away in most difficult times.

    honestly, i think without your new definition of kufr the Quran can't be saved, but why should i believe in it?
    what if it is another way of hiding the truth of the Quran?
    when i asked you to bring a single example of freedom of worship places of non-muslims in prophetic period, you evaded this situation.
    i have repeated it many times, but nobody has brought a single proof of religious freedom in early Islam, when the prophet grew stronger.

    whenever Muslims in past faced external danger they always relied on traditional tafseer of the verses of the Quran.
    take the examples of ibn e tamiyah and his followers, sarhindi, shawaliullah etc. Same happened in Afghanistan.
    these verses will be used as these have been used in past in their true form.
    now when the Quran is under attack in new environment, scholars are trying to hide the real meanings. in the past it was easy because people had no access to books, but in the age of internet almost every source is available to everyone challenging the position of scholars.
    i wish you get success in your mission if it is for truth though i have a strong doubt in it for valid reasons.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/11/2015 7:26:30 AM



  • Sultan Saheb

    "The Quran does not speak about the corruption of the text of previous scriptures. It speaks about the manner in which the followers change the meaning of their scriptures. This is exactly what the Muslims have done/are doing to their Book."

    Time for Muslims to reflect on the thought.


    By Sultan Shahin - 7/11/2015 6:02:14 AM"

    your most beloved mohammed yunus the modern exegesis of the Qur'an is doing exactly what the Quran speaks about other books.

    1400 years and no authentic tafseer of the Quran! every Maulana shaven or unshaven has of his kind of tafseer.
    How can this be a guide to all mankind?
    no matter how much you call us islamophobes, the problem is with the Quran and scholars.
    Since you presume that the Quran is just a perfect, uncorrupted, unchanged book, you can condemn scholars but you can't question the Quran.
    this problem will never end because every body will keep putting his words into the mouth of God.


    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/11/2015 6:59:46 AM



  • "The Quran does not speak about the corruption of the text of previous scriptures. It speaks about the manner in which the followers change the meaning of their scriptures. This is exactly what the Muslims have done/are doing to their Book."

    Time for Muslims to reflect on the thought.


    By Sultan Shahin - 7/11/2015 6:02:14 AM



  • Rational,

    Corruption of the text is preceded by corruption in our understanding. By that yardstick, the Quran is a much misunderstood book because the scholars in the past have not stuck to the meanings that the Quran itself gives to various key words it uses but gave their own meanings or used dictionary meanings.  It is fortunate that the text remains in its original form which makes it easier to reach a correct understanding and the fact that the Quran itself makes clear the meaning of key words that it uses. Following the same process that a child follows to learn the meaning of words we can arrive at the correct meaning of the oft used words in the Quran without resorting to the dictionary.

     

    While the Quran had to rely on the existing words, it gave new meanings to many words and enriched the Arabic language with refined usages of many of the words that it uses.

     

    The word "Kufr", "kafaru", "Kafir" can be called terms.

     What is a term?

     “If a word is used in a special sense and if it pertains to any discipline it is called a term.

     

    When a science, philosophy or thought is developed or when new ideas for social reforms are introduced, the ordinary words prevalent are not sufficient and capable to express the specifically developing units of thought for that particular discipline. As such either new words are coined or the ordinary words are chosen and special meanings are assigned to them. In other words a new status is given to the ordinary words of the language. When a word becomes a term it loses its original dictionary meaning and assumes a new meaning and a new status.”

     

    The Quran uses the words words Kafaru and kufr the way we use the words Sinner and Sin. Just as the sinner is described by his sin, the kafaru is defined by his kufr. Kafaru cannot therefore be given the fixed dictionary meaning of “Unbeliever” or its equivalent.

     

    This subject has been dealt in detail in the articles cited in my previous comments.

     The Quran does not speak about the corruption of the text of previous scriptures. It speaks about the manner in which the followers change the meaning of their scriptures. This is exactly what the Muslims have done/are doing to their Book.

    Rational, this is not a debate and it is not debate that I am interested in. If I am not projecting what I truly know and believe to be the truth, I am risking my hereafter. While all the previous scholars have the excuse of being human and therefore prone to error, I have no excuse for going against all of them if I am wrong. I stand alone and at great risk unless I am 100% certain that I am right.



    By Naseer Ahmed - 7/11/2015 4:13:29 AM



  • Rational, 

    Very clearly 8:12 covers only those in battle with the Muslims. Who were they? They were those who persecuted the Muslims forcing them to migrate to Medina, driven them out of the Sacred Mosque, hindered them in various way in practicing their religion and were now fighting battles to annihilate them. They were oppressors and religious persecutors and that is what is all that is relevant in the verse and not their faith.

    Against those who do not fight:

    (60:8) Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

    Therefore translating Kafara as "Oppressor" or as "Religious Persecutor" is more appropriate which not only removes all ambiguity but universalizes the message of the Quran.

    The subject of mistranslation of this key term has been covered under my articles:

    Who Is A Kafir In The Quran? (Part 1): 'Kafir,' 'Mushrik' and 'Idolater' are not synonyms

    Who Is A Kafir In The Quran? (Part 2): Muslim– Non-Muslim Relationship

    Who Is A Kafir In The Quran? (Part 3): Why Kufr Is A Relative Concept While Shirk, Idol Worship Etc. Have Fixed Meanings

    Who is a Kafir in the Quran? (Part 4) Defining Kufr

    The following article shows the effect of mistranslation of the verses 8:36 to 8:38

    The Story of the Prophetic Mission of Muhammad (pbuh) in the Qu’ran (Concluding Part) Summary





    By Naseer Ahmed - 7/11/2015 3:09:16 AM



  • "The verse is stating a universal truth and the Quran is truly a message for all mankind but there are very few people who understand it as such."
    what is the guarantee one who is claiming to be on right understanding is right? who doesn't say so?
    a true message has no value if it can't be understood by majority.
    it is indeed a shameful  failure of universal message of God to mankind. it is in itself proof that it is not for all.
    i am here. neither i have ran away in past not intend to run away now.
    in fact no message is for all, it can't be. why Allah produced only you to understand but billions of Musims in the past and present.
    it is a mirror but you have veiled it so that you can't see the waekness in your argument.
    if God intended it to all mankind, and the Quran's claim that it is easy to understand is bogus.
    you are proving the proof that the Quran is not easy because you declare all other scholars wrong.
    The Quran is not easy, not a clear book and not in pure Arabic.
    if the Quran is a true message to all then your saying that following of other books can lead to success is just a fabricated lie by you.
    All Muslims believe including you that other scripture are corrupt and the Quran is only intact. there is no Injil in existence that is talked about in the Quran. So following a corrupt book can't lead to success. and if they accept the message of the Quran then they are not ahle kitab,they are only Muslims.
    this is enough and since i am not a habitual/professional debater i may loose the debate but you can't convince me with your contradictory arguments.
    your arguments are contradictory because the book you are defending is contradictory.
    you failed to attract people to your understanding.
    everybody comes with a claim that he is right and rest are wrong. you are no exception.


    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/10/2015 10:21:13 PM



  • Rational,

    You are still running away from discussing the verse in part 4 of the article.

    Irrespective of to whom the verse is addressed the message is for us human beings. However "unbeliever" is not the correct translation of "kafaru". The Kafaru here are the oppressors and the religious persecutors.

    I do not see why this verse cannot inspire anyone irrespective of his faith to stand up and fight against oppression or any kind of wrong or injustice  irrespective of the strength of the oppressor with God's assurance that He will strike terror into the hearts of the oppressor? 

    Is it not a fact that a person in a morally weak position  is a coward and you just have to stand up to him to bring him down?

    The verse is stating a universal truth and the Quran is truly a message for all mankind but there are very few people who understand it as such.

    The Medinian verses are among the most inspiring verses in the Quran if understood correctly. They make a dignified man out of you who has the courage to stand up for his convictions  without relying  on lies, subterfuge or dirty  scheming.

    There are enough verses in the Quran that stress restraint, forgiveness, overlooking, never transgressing the limits etc that prevent a Muslim from becoming overbearing irrespective of his relative strength.

    Even when the Muslims marched into Mecca, they were heavily outnumbered. So your example of a lion terrorising the mice does not hold good. You are also forgetting that the Meccans had besieged the Muslims in Medina just two years earlier and the hypocrites among the Muslims were quaking in fear. They wer also the aggressor in the battle of Uhud.
     

    By Naseer Ahmed - 7/10/2015 4:34:24 AM



  • Naseer saheb
    you may say that in this verse Allah is talking with angels not Muslims. it is Allah who will cast terror into the hearts of unbelievers through angels.
    were those angels holding weapons to kill the enemies? was not it done through hands of Muslims?
    it was a fight between believers and unbelievers(human beings). killing disbelievers through unseen agencies is inhuman.
    why Allah doesn't interfere when Muslims are killed and tortured in present time? Are not Muslims weak now?

    the fact is that Muslims can follow this verse to wage war on disbelievers as they have done in past and doing in present.
    Muslims gave all credits of wining wars to God.
    Since angels are not coming to help now, Muslims think that disbeliever should be punished at the hands of Muslims.
    How Muslims acted on these verses is important.
    were not these verses quoted ti fight against Russians in Afghanistan?

    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/10/2015 3:39:04 AM



  • Rational,

     

    The meaning of  the verse "I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off." 


    Is plain and clear. I am just asking you to discuss it in its proper context which is part 4 of the article.

     


    By Naseer Ahmed - 7/10/2015 12:59:09 AM



  • Rational, you have the right to reject just as we have the right to refine and to take the best meaning. So where is the need for argument?
    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 7/10/2015 12:49:44 AM



  • "I doubt whether you have the courage to do it."
    i doubt there were prophets. i doubt the scriptures were words of God.
    i doubt what you say is right. only you have more polished version of Islam. more it is polished, more it is away from real.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/9/2015 8:05:01 PM



  • to Muslims meaningful discussion is bound to declare, nothing was/is wrong with Islam.
    it is believing in whatever said by Naseer, Mohammed yunus, Fatoohi etc saheban.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/9/2015 7:59:16 PM



  • "First, it was the polytheists who broke the treaty they had with the Muslims."
    defeaters always blame defeated. it is like the lion who wanted to eat the lamb. He simply said that you have spoiled the water.
    mahabharat couldn't be fought without blaming kauravs.
    history is written by defeaters so they speak good about themselves and evil about defeated.
    otherwise how wars can be initiated and fought?
    we read what has come from the mouth the prophet. it must be true.
    what happened was recorded by Muslims not islamophobes, apostates, enemies of Islam.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/9/2015 7:51:28 PM



  • when apostates became the friends of believers in the Quran?
     These verses will be quoted again and again by Muslims and apostates. to Muslims justify the aggression against disbelievers  and to justify the apostasy by apostates.
    defeated speak the language of meeks and defeater the language of aggression, justification, evils of defeated etc.
    these verses will continue to inspire some sections of ummah. how can these be ignored as they were turned into actions by the prophet. it is now sunnah of the prophet.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/9/2015 7:42:24 PM



  • It is not at all difficult to derive the message of tolerance, equality and universal brotherhood from the Quran but this would not suit our apostate friends who love to cite the sword verses which we consider to have no validity now.

     


    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 7/9/2015 3:25:55 PM



  • Why are you people scared of saying whatever you want to say as a comment in its proper context so that a meaningful discussion is possible?

    "La ikraha fid deen" is a Medinian verse. Read part 1 to 3 of the article that covers the Meccan period. What weakness do you see? Read part 4 which covers the medinian period. Which verse of the Quran is violated? Bring in any verse for discussion in part 4 that you think speaks the language of terror. I doubt whether you have the courage to do it. Hit and run from the sidelines is all that you can do.


    By Naseer Ahmed - 7/9/2015 12:10:18 PM



  • Sultan Saheb

    you need not to go somewhere else to find the cause of phobia of Islam, the mother of books speak the language of terror.

    Quran 8:12

    I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.
    the Quran will continue to create phobia/fear till this verses and similar verses are in the Quran.

    read the Quran and hadith, you will find islamophobia in the Quran and hadith.
    but fear of Islam is so intense that you can't speak truth.
    why should i reinterpret this or other verses of
    naked terrorism?

    these are the words of arham ur rahimeen not of the cursed shaitan.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/9/2015 10:41:56 AM



  • Naseer saheb
    "La ikraha fid deen" was the slogan of weak and "fight disbelievers wherever they are...)" was the action of mighty.
    it covers entire Quran. it guides us what you should do when weak and what should we do when strong. is it not in this way a perfect guide?


    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/9/2015 10:22:22 AM



  • The Quran, Hadith, Seerat make a complete picture of early Islam.
    Three phases mention by KS are nearer to truth than the phases of Naseer saheb.
    Naseer saheb deliberately ignoring the other sources of Islam which is record of what really happened.
    Bulk of Islamic sources doesn't support the thesis of naseer saheb, though he has taken much pain to make Islam tolerant, full of freedom, peace, inclusiveness etc.


    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/9/2015 9:35:45 AM



  • KS,
    By Naseer Ahmed - 7/8/2015 12:44:51 PM



  • “There was no strength when the command to fight was given. The number of Muslims who migrated to Mecca would have been around a 1000. Add to that a 1000 among the Ansars. This includes the women and children, the old and the infirm.”- By Naseer Ahmed - 7/8/2015 6:22:54 AM

    ---------------

    Moderate muslims  conveniently forget to mention that Hazrat Muhammad went through three specific stages depending on his circumstances, stages which Muslims implement till this day.

    Stage 1 – Preach tolerance when outnumbered by unbelievers/No retaliation stage.

    Say: 'O unbelievers, I serve not what you serve and you are not serving what I serve, nor am I serving what you have served, neither are you serving what I serve To you your religion, and to me my religion!' S. 109

    Stage 2 – Permit Defensive Fighting when there are enough Muslims and weapons and there is a chance to successfully carry it out.

    Leave is given to those who fight because they were wronged -- surely God is able to help them -- who were expelled from their habitations without right, except that they say 'Our Lord is God. S. 22:39

    Stage 3 – After amassing a large number of soldiers and resources permission is given to carry out Offensive Warfare in order to kill the pagans and humble the Christians and Jews.

    An acquittal, from God and His Messenger, unto the idolaters with whom you made covenant: 'Journey freely in the land for four months; and know that you cannot frustrate the will of God, and that God degrades the unbelievers….. 9:1-29.

    Naseer Ahmad Saheb says “There was no strength when the command to fight was given.”

    It was not offensive fighting. The muslims were allowed to fight to defend themselves as they were, at that time , in stage 2.

    My comment was primarily focused on verse 9:5, known as “The Verse of  Sword." Which Muslim terrorists cite to justify their violent jihad.

    As we thoroughly examine the Islamic source materials it becomes evident that verse 9:5 is part of the theology of jihad and is meant to be both offensive and defensive. It is directed against Pagans living both near to and far away from hazrat Muhammad.

    Understanding 9:5 in context requires an examination of the passage in which it is found. This passage consists of verses  29 to 41 verses or so .

    Islam’s final theological position regarding the use of violence to further its domain does not rest upon one verse or passage. Rather the entire Quran, other Islamic source materials, and hazrat Muhammad’s actions and lifestyle (Sunnah) must be examined and evaluated to understand it.

    Yusuf Ali’s Quran commentary, page 435, states that verses 9:1 – 29 were revealed during the 10th month (Shawwal), of the year A.H. 9 (630/631 A.D.). It was proclaimed by Muhammad’s cousin, Ali, to the various Muslim and non-Muslim pilgrims in Mecca to give Muhammad’s new policy a wide hearing. He also states that the rest of the Sura (30 – 129) was spoken by Muhammad months earlier, prior to the first 29 verses, and they sum up the lessons of Muhammad’s earlier expedition to Tabuk. (Most scholars say that the passage concerning the Tabuk raid was spoken following the raid). This means that the chapter’s first passage (1-29) is chronologically the last passage spoken by hazrat Muhammad. Other scholars present slightly differing opinions on its passages, chronology, and themes. However, all Islamic scholars, both Muslim and non-Muslim, agree that the first 29 verses or so were some of the last Quranic verses spoken by hazrat Muhammad.

    The introduction to chapter 9 in Maulana Maududi’s Commentary states “that by the time chapter 9 was spoken one third of the entire Arabian Peninsula had bent the knee to Islam. He says,

    “Now let us consider the historical background of the Sura. The series of events that have been discussed in this Sura took place after the Peace Treaty of Hudaibiyah. By that time one-third of Arabia had come under the sway of Islam which had established itself as a powerful well organized and civilized Islamic State.” – Maulana Maududi

    Because the Quran lacks internal contextual references we need non-quranic, but related and authoritive references, to understand its meaning accurately. Some people create theological positions based upon a "Quran only" type of reasoning and they make the Quran dance: it says what they want it to say. We must have more than opinion and conjecture. We must use the Quran and contextual references to build a logical, rational, and substantial basis for understanding 9:5. If each person is allowed to "interpret" the Quran as he sees fit, while ignoring the historical and theological references, we would have a meaningless pile of opinions built upon a foundation of cute, but trite, imaginations.

     The fact is the Qoran includes many  abrogated verses. The early Qoran of the Mecca period presented religious tolerance as a divine command simply because Muslims had not yet acquired the physical power to compel conversion. But when Islam became more powerful after the flight to Medina, the "verses of the sword" were conveniently revealed to the Prophet, verses that sanction and indeed command violence, historically Islam's preferred method of expansion.

     


    By Khalid Suhail - 7/8/2015 12:14:38 PM



  • Khalid Suhail will only snipe from the sidelines but will not comment on the articles that provide the complete context.

    The Medinian period is covered under:

    and The Story of the Prophetic Mission of Muhammad (Pbuh) In the Qu’ran (Part 4): The Medinian Period

    In the last named article, all the peaceful verses are discussed with the "sword" verses to show that there is no contradiction.

    In his comment, KS also shows Medinian verses from Surah 2 and 5 under Meccan when these are Medinian.

    The Meccan veres are covered under:

    The Story of the Prophetic mission of Muhammad (pbuh) from the Qu’ran (part 1): The early opposition

    The Story of the Prophetic Mission of Muhammad (pbuh) From the Qu’ran (Part 2): The Clear Warning to the Meccan Pagans

    The Story of the Prophetic Mission of Muhammad (Pbuh) In the Qu’ran (Part 3): Important Pointers from the Stories of the Prophets

    From the earliest Meccan verses, the warnings to the disbelievers who oppose the Prophet are both clear and dire. The violent oppressors such as Abu Jahl, Abu Lahab and Walid ibn Mughiyrah are taken on directly. The description of heaven and hell are graphic and the fate and treatment of the rejecter of faith in the hereafter leaves no room for doubt. There is absolutely no sign of weakness.

    There is no command to fight in Mecca because fighting would have meant a civil war. Fighting is permissible only to a ruler with a territory under his control using people residing in his territory whom he can protect. Such a condition did not exist in Mecca.

    There was no strength when the command to fight was given. The number of Muslims who migrated to Mecca would have been around a 1000. Add to that a 1000 among the Ansars. This includes the women and children, the old and the infirm. When all the Muslims  who could fight turned out at Badr, they numbered only about 300. The Meccans came with an army of 1000 because they know that the Muslim number was very small. The population of  Mecca was around  a 100,000. After suffering a defeat at Badr, the Meccans attacked later with much larger armies in the Battle of Uhud and the battle of the trench.

    It is the word of the Quran that inspired this small number to stand up against the might of the Meccans and ultimately defeat them. It was a victory of the oppressed over their oppressors despite all the odds against them. The verses of the Quran that inspired them to fight are precious that can inspire all those who are oppressed and are on the right side of justice to stand up against any tyrant or oppressor and bring him low.

    These verses will never aid the oppressors or  those who are on the wrong side of justice even though they misuse them. These oppressors are able to function only because there are none to oppose them.

    As shown in the article cited first above, fighting is permissible only against the religious persecutors and oppressors and not for any other reason.


    By Naseer Ahmed - 7/8/2015 6:22:54 AM



  • 9:5

     Slay the idolaters wherever you find them

    8:12

    I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.

    9:14

    Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers

    9:29

    Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day... and fight People of the Book, who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior"

    3:85

    Whoso desires another religion than Islam, it shall not be accepted of him; in the next world he shall be among the losers."

    5:11

    And as for those who disbelieve and reject Our Signs, they are the people of Hell"

    2:193

    Fight them on until there is no more tumult and religion becomes that of Allah

    14:17

    Before him is Hell; and he shall be made to drink boiling water.

    22:19-22

    But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads,

    Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted;

    And for them are hooked rods of iron.


    47:4

    When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives.

    8:12

    I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

    8:60

    Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies.

    I have reproduced the above Medinian later verses in order to mae the clear.

     


    By Khalid Suhail - 7/8/2015 5:17:11 AM



  • contradictory is not in the quran but mr khalid suhail, it is purely in your mind and in the minds of those who think like you. The people of knowledge do not find any contradictions in the Quran. However i am carrying huge experience that only deviants find contradictions in the quran.  
    By To Khalid Suhail - 7/8/2015 5:07:40 AM



  • There are many contradictory verses in the Quran that can be quite confusing. This ambiguity allows Muslims to have their personalized "divine guidance" based on their own preferences. Those who like tolerance or want to present Islam as a tolerant religion can quote parts of the Quran that advocates tolerance, while the hardliners, the fundamentalists and even the terrorists can quote those parts of the Quran that foments hate and killing of the disbelievers. Therefore ironically everyone can find what he is looking for in that book. And they call this the "miracle" of Quran!

    Let us compare both sides of Quran:

    In Surah 73: In Surah 2:256 God tells Mohammad not to impose Islam by force, "There is no compulsion in religion", but in verse 2:193 He tells his messenger to kill whoever rejects Islam, "Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's". In Surah 29:45 God tells Mohammad to speak nicely to people of the Book (Christians and Jews), "Argue with people of the book, other than evil doers, only by means of what are better! and say, we believe in what has been sent down to us and sent down to you. Our God is the same as your God, and we are surrendered to Him." But in Surah 9:29 Allah tells him to fight the people of the Book, "Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day... and fight People of the Book, who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior".

    Hazrat Muhammad gives no justification for this discrepancy in the Quran and the change in Allah's mood from peaceful to militant and conciliatory to confrontational. Muslim apologists in the West present the kinder verses of the Quran or what is known as the Early Revelation. While Islamic scholars, when have only Muslims as their audience, say that those softer verses of the Quran were abrogated and supplanted by harsher ones. The reason given is, asMaulana Maududi puts it, "Mohammad became strong enough to move from the stage of weakness to the stage of Jihad".

    Here is a comparison between some early verses  hazrat Muhammad wrote in Mecca while he was weak and some that he wrote in Medina after becoming powerful.

    Meccan Early Revelations

    Medinan Later Revelations

    2:83

    Speak good to men...

    9:5

    Slay the idolaters wherever you find them

    20:103

    Therefore be patient with what they say, and celebrate (constantly) the praises of thy Lord,

    8:12

    I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.

    50:45

    We well know what the infidels say: but you are not to compel them

    9:14

    Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers

    5:69

    Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

    9:29

    Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day... and fight People of the Book, who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute by hand, being inferior"

    109:6

    To you be your religion, and to me my religion"

    3:85

    Whoso desires another religion than Islam, it shall not be accepted of him; in the next world he shall be among the losers."

    10:99

    If it had been thy Lord's Will, they would all have believed, all who are on earth! Wilt thou then compel mankind against their will to believe!

    5:11

    And as for those who disbelieve and reject Our Signs, they are the people of Hell"

    2:256

    There is no compulsion in religion

    2:193

    Fight them on until there is no more tumult and religion becomes that of Allah

    15:85

    Pardon thou, with a gracious pardoning....

    14:17

    Before him is Hell; and he shall be made to drink boiling water.

    6:108

    and insult not (Revile not) those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they of out spite revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus we made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end they return to their Lord, and we shall then tell them the truth of all that they did

    22:19-22

    But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads,

    Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted;

    And for them are hooked rods of iron.


    43:88,89

    O Lord, these are people who do not believe,' Bear with them and wish them 'peace.' In the end they shall know their folly.

    47:4

    When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives.

    5.48

    If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues

    8:12

    I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

    45.14

    Tell those who believe, to forgive those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah: It is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each People according to what they have earned.

    8:60

    Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies.

    There is a long list of such contradictory verses in the Quran which can not be covered in a short comment. This dichotomy is explained by some Muslim scholars as we see in the following.

    Dr. M. Khan the translator of Sahih Bukhari and the Quran into English writes:

    "Allah revealed in Sura Bara'at (Repentance, IX) (the order to discard (all) obligations (covenants, etc), and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the Pagans as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizia with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in 9:29). So the Muslims were not permitted to abandon "the fighting" against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and have the ability to fight against them. So at first "the fighting" was forbidden, then it was permitted, and after that it was made obligatory "(Introduction to English translation of Sahih Bukhari, p.xxiv.)

    Dr. Khan continues:

    The "Mujahideen who fight against the enemies of Allah in order that the worship should be all for Allah (alone and not for any other deity) and that the word is Allah's (ie. none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and His religion Islam) should be upper most."

    So first it was "There is no compulsion in religion" (Q. 2:265) and then

    "O who believe! shall I direct you to a commerce that which will save you from a painful torment? That you believe in Allah and His Apostle (Mohammad), and that you strive hard and fight in the cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives. That will be better for you, if you but knew. If you do so He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into gardens of Eternity - that is the great success" (Q. 61:10-12)

    Dr. Sobhy as-Saleh, a contemporary academic, does not see in Q. 2:256 and Q. 9:73 a case of abrogation but a case of delaying or postponing the command to fight the infidels. To support his view he quoted Imam Suyuti the author of Itqan Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an who wrote:

    "The command to fight the infidels was delayed until the muslims became strong,  but when they were weak they were commanded to endure and be patient. [ Sobhy as_Saleh, Mabaheth Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an, Dar al-'Ilm Lel-Malayeen, Beirut , 1983, p. 269.]

    Dr. Sobhy, in a footnote, commends the opinion of the famous scholar,  Zarkashi who said:

    "Allah the most high and wise revealed to Mohammad in his weak condition what suited the situation, because of his mercy to him and his followers. For if He gave them the command to fight while they were weak it would have been embarrassing and most difficult, but when the most high made Islam victorious He commanded him with what suited the situation, that is asking the people of the Book to become Muslims or to pay the levied tax, and the infidels to become Muslims or face death. These two options, to fight or to have peace return according to the strength or the weakness of the Muslims."(ibid p. 270)


    By Khalid Suhail - 7/8/2015 4:57:08 AM



  • The following article of mine explains two verses of the Quran; first, (Kill them wherever you find them) (2:91) and then the so-called “sword verse” (kill the polytheists wherever you find them) (9:5).

    'Kill Them Wherever You Find Them (2:191)': What Quran Actually Means By This Command?

    http://www.newageislam.com/islamic-ideology/ghulam-ghaus,-new-age-islam/-kill-them-wherever-you-find-them-(2-191)---what-quran-actually-means-by-this-command?/d/102604


    By Ghulam Ghaus غلام غوث - 7/8/2015 3:05:35 AM



  • Rational,

    To get the flavour of the Meccan and Medinian verses  read.:

    The Story of the Prophetic mission of Muhammad (pbuh) from the Qu’ran (part 1): The early opposition

    The Story of the Prophetic Mission of Muhammad (pbuh) From the Qu’ran (Part 2): The Clear Warning to the Meccan Pagans

    The Story of the Prophetic Mission of Muhammad (Pbuh) In the Qu’ran (Part 3): Important Pointers from the Stories of the Prophets

    The Story of the Prophetic Mission of Muhammad (Pbuh) In the Qu’ran (Part 4): The Medinian Period

    The first 3 parts cover the Meccan period and part 4 the Medinian period alongwith Surah Al-Kafirun from the Meccan period to show that "To you (peaceful rejecter) be your way and to me mine" was never violated by any of the prophets and is an eternal principle or sunnat of Allah.   

    Some of the most beautiful verses on secular justice, forgiveness, overlooking the faults, repelling evil with good, showing restraint, never transgressing the limits, never acting on unconfirmed rumours or based on prejudice  are found in the Medinian Surahs including "Let there be no compulsion in religion".

    It is impossible to imagine the Medinian part of the Quran being revealed during the Meccan period and vice verse and quite simply, the Quran is incomplete without either part.

    In part 4, I have discussed the Meccan verses with the "sword" verses to show that there is no contradiction and therefore the question of abrogation does not arise.

    The Medinian part becomes necessary because of the Meccan part and the Meccan part is necessary for the Medinian part to unfold. Without either part, the deen is incomplete.


    By Naseer Ahmed - 7/8/2015 2:56:03 AM



  • "If Mahmoud Taha made such a difference between the Meccan and the Medinian Quran, then he never understood the message of the Quran or the Prophetic mission of Muhammad (pbuh)."
    muhammed taha might be apologist on Medinian verses which is not acceptable to Naseer saheb.

    why Allah is so miser that he reveals his true message to only fistful people. in present time it is only one.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/7/2015 9:07:36 PM



  • those who want to fight for their beliefs (disbelief in the eyes of Allah and Muslims), ways of living will taste the sword of Islam. only peaceful polytheists will be spared and given protection to their lives.
    they can believe and practice but as peaceful.
    now this being peaceful can be understood in Omar's treaty with non-Muslims.
    saudi arabia is following that.
    Omar's treaty elaborate how non-muslims must live under Islamic rule.


    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/7/2015 9:02:31 PM



  • "Surely, the worst of beasts in Allah’s sight are those who are ungrateful as they would not believe."
    wonderful!
    unbelievers are worst of beasts just because they wouldn't believe in Allah for any reason.
    no matter how Allah is proved merciful, he has extreme disgust for unbelievers.
    and there have been so many ungratefully within believers but that doesn't disturb Allah.



    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/7/2015 8:54:53 PM



  • If Mahmoud Taha made such a difference between the Meccan and the Medinian Quran, then he never understood the message of the Quran or the Prophetic mission of Muhammad (pbuh).

    My article on the Prophetic mission of Muhammad (pbuh) shows clearly the seamless connection and continuity in the Quran.

    The error that both Taha and the classical scholars make is in thinking that either of the two phases take precedence over the other when the fact is that no verse abrogates or overrides any other verse.

    Taha was merely reacting to the tendency among the classical scholars to give precedence to the later verses ignoring the earlier ones or treating them as abrogated.

    By Naseer Ahmed - 7/7/2015 6:30:32 PM



  • Mahmoud Taha's teachings may be important with regard to this topic. He  believed that the "original, uncorrupted form" of Islam was the Mecca Qur'an. It accorded, (among other things), equal status to people – whether women or men, Muslim or non-Muslim.

     


    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 7/7/2015 2:30:57 PM



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    By ajay - 7/7/2015 10:40:12 AM



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