Books and Documents

Debating Islam (05 Jul 2015 NewAgeIslam.Com)


  • Mr Mubashir
    you could bring some examples from Islamic history to prove that Islam allowed churches and synagogs in Arabian  Peninsula?
    nobody is saying, Indonesia, Malaysia, China and Malabar of India were conquered by means of the sword?
    but why do you forget extreme military measure in Iran, Egypt and in Sindh of India?
    can you deny Shawaliullah invited ahmed shah abdali to attack India giving Islamic reasons to attack?
    he was such a brute force which could do anything?
    you have closed youraself in a shell of the Quran. you closed your eyes from Sunna, Seerat and Islamic history.
    all major religions (perhaps Buddhism is exception) have some periods of bloodshed.
    except Islam's share.
    instead of worrying about me focus on what is said in Islamic books about non-Muslims and apostates? The quran is not whole world.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/7/2015 8:43:36 PM

  • Distortions, quoting out of context, stretching  the verses to extract any meaning are only permissible to Muslim scholars.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/7/2015 8:32:34 PM

  • Mr Mubashir
    who is this Rational M. Tunis:)

    what is your position? only to say Islam has no limitations? Muslims did everything right? Muslims army didn't do anything wrong? there is no problem with the Quran?
    All Muslims understand the Quran incorrectly?
    you seems to be a Quran only Muslims? but Quran only Muslims lie when they say they don't believe in books other than the Quran.
    There is much Islam outside the Quran? Can you tell me which verses asked you to get your children circumcised? one example before you proceed to say something about me.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/7/2015 8:28:39 PM

  • Wonder if there is anything Muslims do or did that made sense to people like Rational M. Tunis? Just curious!!
    By Mubashir - 7/7/2015 11:41:52 AM

  • Rational,

    It is because of man's attribute of evolving over a period to deal with greater complexity.

    By Naseer Ahmed - 7/7/2015 2:50:03 AM

  • It is also possible that some verses of the Quran revealed earlier may have been substituted by later verses.

    is it not against the God's attribute al-aleem wal-khabeer?
    however majority of Muslims believe in abrogation and there is a proof in the Quran.
    why God needs subsitution? is he not comfortable with his eralier verses?

    Is not Allah capable to produce just perfect verses?

    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/7/2015 2:23:50 AM

  • Rational,

    16:101 The verse refers to changes/substitution in the verses revealed in the earlier Books of Scripture. It is also possible that some verses of the Quran revealed earlier may have been substituted by later verses. However, the Quran that we have is the final word which cannot be said to contain any abrogated verses. To even consider any verse in the Quran as abrogated is fitna. 

    Chronologically, 3:85 precedes 5:69.

    Verse 3:85 is and has been eternally valid from the time of Adam. All Prophets preached only Islam.


    By Naseer Ahmed - 7/7/2015 2:14:51 AM

  • it is wrong to say that there is no abrogation in the Quran?
    however if it is not then Muslims invented it and it is a reality of Islam.

    Surah 16:101

    When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.

    Surah 2:62 (some claim this is abrogated by Surah 3:85 below)

    Those who believe (in the Quran) and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures) and the Christians and the Sabians, - Any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

    Surah 5:69 (some claim this is also abrogated by Surah 3:85 below)

    If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course : but many of them follow a course that is evil.

    Surah 3:85

    If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to God), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/7/2015 1:49:59 AM

  • "Since the Quran prohibits aggression but encourages helping the oppressed when they ask,  then it can be safely assumed that at least the first few Caliphs were motivated by such principles."
    it also doesn't mean they practiced this principle to its true spirit. they were human beings prone to errors and temptations.

    the quran also speak about non-muslim worship places where the name of God is extolled, yet there is no proof that they allowed other worship places.
    Can you point out any church or synagogue in prophetic time?
    no doubt some Muslims kings helped non-Muslims to build and maintain the worship places. but such kings were not popular among Muslim ulema circles.
    please give name of one temple, church or synagogue in the prophet time.

    By rational mohammed yunus - 7/7/2015 1:44:47 AM

  • Don't remember which Muslim army went to China, the Far East including Malaysia and Indonesia !!

    Still trying to figure out why certain nations who invaded Muslim lands ended up converting to Islam!!

    By Mubashir - 7/6/2015 9:57:29 PM

  • History of Muslims does not mean that it is history of Islam.

    Since the Quran prohibits aggression but encourages helping the oppressed when they ask,  then it can be safely assumed that at least the first few Caliphs were motivated by such principles.

    There are also strategic interests where one reacts on the basis of "Get them before they have a chance to get you" meaning that in case of imminent and proven threat of invasion, an army can take preemptive steps.

    That said, we must admit that later on,  when Caliphate was converted into Monarchy, not all teachings of Islam were interpreted in the right way.
    By Mubashir - 7/6/2015 9:53:41 PM

  • Mr. Hutter, . . . .

    The important question is not how Islam spread, but how can Islam today be truly a religion of peace, nonviolence, universal brotherhood and respect for the beliefs of others.


    By Ghulam Mohiyuddin - 7/6/2015 1:17:33 PM

  • Dear Louay Fatoohi,

    Nice text, thank you. But it leaves one important question unanswered: How did Islam spread so quickly from Morocco to China, starting already with Caliph Omars war against the Byzantines? All of Northern Africa was Christian then.
    Would you say these people were just waiting for the benevolent Muslims to liberate them from the evil Christians?
    Or would you say, this was against the Qur'an?

    Best wishes

    By Gottfried Hutter - 7/6/2015 2:26:58 AM